[kictanet] Amend the law to enable end-to-end land transactions

Fri Apr 13 04:51:18 EAT 2018

Mwendwa

So I’m curious why the blanket rejection by LSK?

Ali Hussein
Principal
Hussein & Associates
+254 0713 601113 

Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim

"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit."  ~ Aristotle

Sent from my iPad

> On 13 Apr 2018, at 12:10 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> 
> Ali, actually, the lawyers were not disrupted, or were they?
> 
> Conveyancing and sell contracts will still remain as before. Maybe I'm wrong.
> 
>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 10:20 PM Barrack Otieno via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> Hi Ali and learned colleagues,
>> 
>> You know any public participation initiative on land related issues
>> would end up like Bomas 1 when we were doing the new constitution.
>> That said , there was and still is need for public participation, i
>> hope the new CS Farida Karoney can breath fresh air at the Registry.
>> Thank you Walu for the article.
>> 
>> 
>> Regards
>> 
>> On 4/12/18, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> > @Kanini and @Victor,
>> >
>> > The lawyers bold enough to come out fighting. @Rosemary, we are watching
>> > you. We won’t allow you to all of a sudden become a lurker 😆
>> >
>> > To your point Kanini - one of the biggest determinants of success or failure
>> > of any Digital Transformation initiative is not the technology itself but
>> > CULTURE. I fear this initiative is doomed to fail simply because it hasn’t
>> > carried stakeholders along.
>> >
>> > I fear a lot of government initiatives will go this way if CULTURE is not
>> > changed.
>> >
>> > Ali Hussein
>> > Hussein & Associates
>> > +254 0713 601113
>> >
>> > Twitter: @AliHKassim
>> > Skype: abu-jomo
>> > LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>> > Blog: www.alyhussein.com
>> >
>> > "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what
>> > no one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
>> >
>> > Sent from my iPad
>> >
>> >> On 12 Apr 2018, at 9:45 PM, kanini mutemi via kictanet
>> >> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> We are here @Ali. Some of us don’t agree with LSK’s position. Yes public
>> >> participation wasn’t carried out and that was the original sin. However,
>> >> we should be fighting for a pause to consider public comment not bluntly
>> >> asking to go back to the analogue system. We can’t be seen to be fighting
>> >> digitization. But you understand why lawyers aren’t excited about some
>> >> digital developments eg smart lawyer platforms 😛
>> >>
>> >> That being said, it must be understood that this digitization doesn’t
>> >> solve the inherent problems in conveyancing. Eg applying for a search,
>> >> whether physically or online, doesn’t guarantee you that there isn’t a
>> >> copycat file in the lands registry that could return misleading results.
>> >> Again, we have said on this list before that technology is not a magic
>> >> wand. Our land dishonesty problem won’t disappear because we’ve reduced
>> >> the foot traffic at Ardhi House. Also, picking up lessons from e-citizen,
>> >> company registration is online yes but you still need an ‘insider’ to help
>> >> you use the platform sometimes because applications may take time or the
>> >> platform returns error messages you wouldn’t be able to interpret on your
>> >> own.
>> >>
>> >> Ps: The previous administration peddled digitisation of the lands registry
>> >> too. Registries were closed severally to that effect. Perhaps there’s a
>> >> procurement question here. Was that mere scanning of records? Who did it?
>> >> Who is providing the services for the current process? How were they
>> >> engaged?
>> >>
>> >>> On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 at 21:30, Victor Kapiyo via kictanet
>> >>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> >>> The lawyers are here. We have been otherwise occupied trying to figure
>> >>> out how the new LMIS system works, in order to facilitate your
>> >>> conveyancing transactions!
>> >>>
>> >>> I wonder why some people want to digitise wakili's out of business,
>> >>> surely. Jameni? Can't we be left to 'eat' our legal fees in peace?
>> >>>
>> >>> Anyway, I think this is a good initiative. Trust me all lawyers want
>> >>> these land transactions to move quicker. Only that we need, for the
>> >>> benefits of our clients, to ensure there is proper due diligence done to
>> >>> ensure the integrity of land transactions. As you're all probably aware,
>> >>> land disputes form a huge chunk of cases in our courts - in fact there is
>> >>> an entire court (ELC) dedicated to land matters. We facilitate the
>> >>> conveyance process and do not as some suggest, act as obstacles to land
>> >>> transactions. In fact, the faster we transact, the sooner we get paid -
>> >>> so nobody wants delays. Delays are caused by inefficiency, corruption,
>> >>> bureacracy and disorganisation in some of the registries. It is also
>> >>> important to note that the property management framework is a very
>> >>> complex regime and whereas technology can enhance such processes, there
>> >>> are certain technicalities that require a legal mind to determine.
>> >>>
>> >>> That said, the challenge with this government project is that it was
>> >>> conceptualised, designed and implemented - i believe in secret - and
>> >>> without adequate participation of key stakeholders. How many people here
>> >>> knew of the details of the land registry digitisation process until the
>> >>> lands registry in Nairobi was closed to the public for the migration
>> >>> process last month? If the process was more participatory, and there was
>> >>> better communication and awareness, then i doubt we would be having the
>> >>> issues being raised here or in the articles. As lawyers, we want change.
>> >>> But the technocrats developing ICT systems for e-government need to be
>> >>> more transparent about such projects. As we speak there is no programme
>> >>> for training on using the system or a manual at best - save for a sketchy
>> >>> 1 min. 29 sec. video and a paragraph with scanty instructions (see
>> >>> screenshot). Jameni. We must strive to implement such projects better, if
>> >>> the country has to get to where it needs to. The approaches to e-gov
>> >>> programmes need to be more holistic, strategic and systematic to ensure
>> >>> success. We deserve better, and we can do better.
>> >>>
>> >>> Ni hayo tu.
>> >>>
>> >>> Victor Kapiyo
>> >>> Partner | Lawmark Partners LLP
>> >>> Advocate of the High Court of Kenya, Commissioner for Oaths & Notary
>> >>> Public
>> >>> Suite No. 8, Centro House, Westlands, Nairobi | Web: www.lawmark.co.ke
>> >>> ====================================================
>> >>> “Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude” Zig
>> >>> Ziglar
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 12 April 2018 at 18:05, Ali Hussein via kictanet
>> >>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>> Where are the lawyers?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Ukiwa upande huu utajitetee...Ukiwa upande ule... LOL
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Ali Hussein
>> >>>> Principal
>> >>>> AHK & Associates
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>> >>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>> >>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>> >>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>> >>>>
>> >>>> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
>> >>>> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
>> >>>> Nairobi, Kenya.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
>> >>>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>> >>>> organizations that I work with.
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet
>> >>>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> >>>>> @SMM,
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I am under 'Siekke' for the article ;-)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> I received a message from one of the lawyers who promised me a 'Class
>> >>>>> Suit'.  Am googling what that means and hope the digital lawyers onlist
>> >>>>> will come to my aid ;-)
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> walu.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Thursday, April 12, 2018, 4:30:44 PM GMT+3, S.M. Muraya via kictanet
>> >>>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Correction: Article is via @JWalu
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-
>> >>>>> 4380642-lfxopw/index.html
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the
>> >>>>> lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land
>> >>>>> transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the inevitable
>> >>>>> disruption that technology is bringing.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> LSK argument for remaining analogue, being anti digital..
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/news/Ministry-switch-to-online-land-registry-sparks-row-with-LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/index.html
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> LSK cites section 34 of the Advocates Act which states: “No unqualified
>> >>>>> person shall, either directly or indirectly, take instructions, draw or
>> >>>>> prepare any document or instrument relating to the conveyancing of
>> >>>>> property.”
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> https://www. businessdailyafrica.com/news/ Ministry-switch-to-online-
>> >>>>> land-registry-sparks-row-with- LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/ index.html
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 3:55 PM, S.M. Muraya <murigi.muraya at gmail.com>
>> >>>>> wrote:
>> >>>>> Noted well @walu
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the
>> >>>>> lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land
>> >>>>> transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the inevitable
>> >>>>> disruption that technology is bringing.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-
>> >>>>> 4380642-lfxopw/index.html
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> --
>> >>>>> SMM
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one
>> >>>>> who takes a city." Prov 16:32
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>> >>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
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>> >> --
>> >> Mercy Mutemi, Advocate.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>
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>> >>
>> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> >> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>> >> development.
>> >>
>> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>> >
>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> Barrack O. Otieno
>> +254721325277
>> +254733206359
>> Skype: barrack.otieno
>> PGP ID: 0x2611D86A
>> 
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> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> 
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