[kictanet] Amend the law to enable end-to-end land transactions

Fri Apr 13 00:10:46 EAT 2018

Ali, actually, the lawyers were not disrupted, or were they?

Conveyancing and sell contracts will still remain as before. Maybe I'm
wrong.

On Thu, Apr 12, 2018, 10:20 PM Barrack Otieno via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> Hi Ali and learned colleagues,
>
> You know any public participation initiative on land related issues
> would end up like Bomas 1 when we were doing the new constitution.
> That said , there was and still is need for public participation, i
> hope the new CS Farida Karoney can breath fresh air at the Registry.
> Thank you Walu for the article.
>
>
> Regards
>
> On 4/12/18, Admin CampusCiti via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> wrote:
> > @Kanini and @Victor,
> >
> > The lawyers bold enough to come out fighting. @Rosemary, we are watching
> > you. We won’t allow you to all of a sudden become a lurker 😆
> >
> > To your point Kanini - one of the biggest determinants of success or
> failure
> > of any Digital Transformation initiative is not the technology itself but
> > CULTURE. I fear this initiative is doomed to fail simply because it
> hasn’t
> > carried stakeholders along.
> >
> > I fear a lot of government initiatives will go this way if CULTURE is not
> > changed.
> >
> > Ali Hussein
> > Hussein & Associates
> > +254 0713 601113
> >
> > Twitter: @AliHKassim
> > Skype: abu-jomo
> > LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> > Blog: www.alyhussein.com
> >
> > "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
> what
> > no one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> >> On 12 Apr 2018, at 9:45 PM, kanini mutemi via kictanet
> >> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>
> >> We are here @Ali. Some of us don’t agree with LSK’s position. Yes public
> >> participation wasn’t carried out and that was the original sin. However,
> >> we should be fighting for a pause to consider public comment not bluntly
> >> asking to go back to the analogue system. We can’t be seen to be
> fighting
> >> digitization. But you understand why lawyers aren’t excited about some
> >> digital developments eg smart lawyer platforms 😛
> >>
> >> That being said, it must be understood that this digitization doesn’t
> >> solve the inherent problems in conveyancing. Eg applying for a search,
> >> whether physically or online, doesn’t guarantee you that there isn’t a
> >> copycat file in the lands registry that could return misleading results.
> >> Again, we have said on this list before that technology is not a magic
> >> wand. Our land dishonesty problem won’t disappear because we’ve reduced
> >> the foot traffic at Ardhi House. Also, picking up lessons from
> e-citizen,
> >> company registration is online yes but you still need an ‘insider’ to
> help
> >> you use the platform sometimes because applications may take time or the
> >> platform returns error messages you wouldn’t be able to interpret on
> your
> >> own.
> >>
> >> Ps: The previous administration peddled digitisation of the lands
> registry
> >> too. Registries were closed severally to that effect. Perhaps there’s a
> >> procurement question here. Was that mere scanning of records? Who did
> it?
> >> Who is providing the services for the current process? How were they
> >> engaged?
> >>
> >>> On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 at 21:30, Victor Kapiyo via kictanet
> >>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>> The lawyers are here. We have been otherwise occupied trying to figure
> >>> out how the new LMIS system works, in order to facilitate your
> >>> conveyancing transactions!
> >>>
> >>> I wonder why some people want to digitise wakili's out of business,
> >>> surely. Jameni? Can't we be left to 'eat' our legal fees in peace?
> >>>
> >>> Anyway, I think this is a good initiative. Trust me all lawyers want
> >>> these land transactions to move quicker. Only that we need, for the
> >>> benefits of our clients, to ensure there is proper due diligence done
> to
> >>> ensure the integrity of land transactions. As you're all probably
> aware,
> >>> land disputes form a huge chunk of cases in our courts - in fact there
> is
> >>> an entire court (ELC) dedicated to land matters. We facilitate the
> >>> conveyance process and do not as some suggest, act as obstacles to land
> >>> transactions. In fact, the faster we transact, the sooner we get paid -
> >>> so nobody wants delays. Delays are caused by inefficiency, corruption,
> >>> bureacracy and disorganisation in some of the registries. It is also
> >>> important to note that the property management framework is a very
> >>> complex regime and whereas technology can enhance such processes, there
> >>> are certain technicalities that require a legal mind to determine.
> >>>
> >>> That said, the challenge with this government project is that it was
> >>> conceptualised, designed and implemented - i believe in secret - and
> >>> without adequate participation of key stakeholders. How many people
> here
> >>> knew of the details of the land registry digitisation process until the
> >>> lands registry in Nairobi was closed to the public for the migration
> >>> process last month? If the process was more participatory, and there
> was
> >>> better communication and awareness, then i doubt we would be having the
> >>> issues being raised here or in the articles. As lawyers, we want
> change.
> >>> But the technocrats developing ICT systems for e-government need to be
> >>> more transparent about such projects. As we speak there is no programme
> >>> for training on using the system or a manual at best - save for a
> sketchy
> >>> 1 min. 29 sec. video and a paragraph with scanty instructions (see
> >>> screenshot). Jameni. We must strive to implement such projects better,
> if
> >>> the country has to get to where it needs to. The approaches to e-gov
> >>> programmes need to be more holistic, strategic and systematic to ensure
> >>> success. We deserve better, and we can do better.
> >>>
> >>> Ni hayo tu.
> >>>
> >>> Victor Kapiyo
> >>> Partner | Lawmark Partners LLP
> >>> Advocate of the High Court of Kenya, Commissioner for Oaths & Notary
> >>> Public
> >>> Suite No. 8, Centro House, Westlands, Nairobi | Web: www.lawmark.co.ke
> >>> ====================================================
> >>> “Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude” Zig
> >>> Ziglar
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 12 April 2018 at 18:05, Ali Hussein via kictanet
> >>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Where are the lawyers?
> >>>>
> >>>> Ukiwa upande huu utajitetee...Ukiwa upande ule... LOL
> >>>>
> >>>> Ali Hussein
> >>>> Principal
> >>>> AHK & Associates
> >>>>
> >>>> Tel: +254 713 601113
> >>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> >>>> Skype: abu-jomo
> >>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> >>>>
> >>>> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
> >>>> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
> >>>> Nairobi, Kenya.
> >>>>
> >>>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are
> purely
> >>>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
> >>>> organizations that I work with.
> >>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet
> >>>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>>>> @SMM,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I am under 'Siekke' for the article ;-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I received a message from one of the lawyers who promised me a 'Class
> >>>>> Suit'.  Am googling what that means and hope the digital lawyers
> onlist
> >>>>> will come to my aid ;-)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> walu.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thursday, April 12, 2018, 4:30:44 PM GMT+3, S.M. Muraya via
> kictanet
> >>>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Correction: Article is via @JWalu
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-
> >>>>> 4380642-lfxopw/index.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the
> >>>>> lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land
> >>>>> transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the
> inevitable
> >>>>> disruption that technology is bringing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> LSK argument for remaining analogue, being anti digital..
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/news/Ministry-switch-to-online-land-registry-sparks-row-with-LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/index.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> LSK cites section 34 of the Advocates Act which states: “No
> unqualified
> >>>>> person shall, either directly or indirectly, take instructions, draw
> or
> >>>>> prepare any document or instrument relating to the conveyancing of
> >>>>> property.”
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www. businessdailyafrica.com/news/
> Ministry-switch-to-online-
> >>>>> land-registry-sparks-row-with- LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/ index.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 3:55 PM, S.M. Muraya <
> murigi.muraya at gmail.com>
> >>>>> wrote:
> >>>>> Noted well @walu
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the
> >>>>> lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land
> >>>>> transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the
> inevitable
> >>>>> disruption that technology is bringing.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-
> >>>>> 4380642-lfxopw/index.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --
> >>>>> SMM
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than
> one
> >>>>> who takes a city." Prov 16:32
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> >> --
> >> Mercy Mutemi, Advocate.
> >>
> >>
> >>
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> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
> >>
> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> >> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >> development.
> >>
> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> bandwidth,
> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
> do
> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >
>
>
> --
> Barrack O. Otieno
> +254721325277
> +254733206359
> Skype: barrack.otieno
> PGP ID: 0x2611D86A
>
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> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
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