[kictanet] kictanet Digest, Vol 122, Issue 62
Mutindi Muema
missmutindi at gmail.com
Wed Jul 19 12:39:04 EAT 2017
Well, whatever that charge sheet looks like... An Indian court has decided
WhatsApp admins should not be held liable for content on the group. I have
attached the relevant court order for ease of reference. The precedent in
India is persuasive for a similar case in Ke.
It will be Interesting to see a Kenyan judgement/Ruling
Mutindi.
Advocate.
On 19 Jul 2017 12:22 p.m., "Michael Ilishebo via kictanet" <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> Whatsapp ADMIN
>
> I have followed this discourse and interesting points being brought up on
> the part of Liability by Whatsapp Admin.
>
> Whatsapp groups are not like Facebook or Tweeter Groups. With Facebook, it
> is much easier to delete content by Admins that do not conform to the set
> rules of the group....however, it is IMPOSSIBLE with Whatsapp to moderate
> by deleting content because each individual handset acts as a end server.
> One can only delete what is in their mobile phone and not that which is in
> a group.
>
> As a Law Enforcement Officer (Non Kenyan), this has poised as a serious
> challenge when it comes to holding Whatsapp Admin liable for 'crimes
> committed ' in their groups.
>
> I stand to be corrected.
>
> Michael Ilishebo,
> Zambia
>
> On Jul 18, 2017 16:18, <kictanet-request at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
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> Today's Topics:
>
> 1. Re: 21 WhatsApp groups spreading hate identified - Daily
> Nation (Admin CampusCiti)
> 2. Re: 21 WhatsApp groups spreading hate identified - Daily
> Nation (Admin CampusCiti)
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Message: 1
> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:12:17 +0300
> From: Admin CampusCiti <info at campusciti.com>
> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] 21 WhatsApp groups spreading hate identified -
> Daily Nation
> Message-ID: <158F0871-A237-4045-B638-C16392FE8C6F at campusciti.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> @Florence
>
> I can bet you one thing. With the Capacity Building that KICTANet is doing
> through KeSIG, where I believe there was strong representation from the
> boys and girls in blue there will be a lot more sense to read on the Charge
> Sheet. Contrary to popular belief our Disciplined Forces are catching up
> fast.
>
> To your point though - That Charge Sheet would be interesting.. ?
>
> Ali Hussein
> Hussein & Associates
> +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
>
> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> Skype: abu-jomo
> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> Blog: www.alyhussein.com
>
> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
> what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 18 Jul 2017, at 4:34 PM, florence mwangangi via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >
> > @ Ali, thanks for the link on Internet governace on the liability of
> internet intermediaries. The questions arising in 2014 are weighty today,
> indeed more weighty in view of technological advancements in information
> and communications since 2014, not to mention the individual's
> constitutional guarantees on rights and freedoms related to information,
> communication and assembling/associating with others.
> > It would be interesting to read a charge sheet on Internet intermediary
> liability.
> >
> >
> >> On 18 Jul 2017 10:15, "Ali Hussein" <ali at hussein.me.ke> wrote:
> >> Florence
> >>
> >> Indeed. This also sort of starts me thinking of Intermediary Liability.
> In the absence of clear Policy Guidelines and Regulatory Framework
> regarding Internet Governance we are left to flounder and make 'Roadside
> Proclamations' like the one being reported here.
> >>
> >> See this write up on a workshop on Intermediary Liability that can
> start informing some of these conversations. It is important as a country
> that we define what Internet Governance is. We are into the 20+ year of the
> Internet in this country and we are yet to define what Internet Governance
> looks like for our country. You can now see the folly of that negligence.
> >>
> >> Regards
> >>
> >> Ali Hussein
> >> Principal
> >> Hussein & Associates
> >>
> >> Tel: +254 713 601113
> >> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> >> Skype: abu-jomo
> >> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> >>
> >> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
> >> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
> >> Nairobi, Kenya.
> >>
> >> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
> organizations that I work with.
> >>
> >>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 9:29 AM, florence mwangangi <
> fmwangangi1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> Criminal liability is personal. If an administrator is not the author
> of the offending post, he/she cannot be criminally liable in law. Shall we
> also jail the admins of Facebook, Twitter et al on similar lines??
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>> On 18 Jul 2017 07:35, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>>> Listers
> >>>>
> >>>> This conversation goes on.
> >>>>
> >>>> Can these groups and the content they are spreading be named so that
> Kenyans can know what this is all about?
> >>>>
> >>>> As I said yesterday, let's also ensure that the obvious perpetrators
> are brought to book. It shouldn't be hard to discern the truth and
> prosecute those who are found guilty of spreading hatred.
> >>>>
> >>>> And as the authorities do this they must exercise utmost transparency
> and caution lest Kenyans start questioning the real motives behind this
> concerted effort to curb Kenyans right to expression. As I have said before
> as Kenyans we need to know one thing:-
> >>>>
> >>>> What is wrong offline is also wrong online. I'm not sure why we are
> making a distinction on this issue. Last time I checked the Penal Code
> hasn't changed.
> >>>>
> >>>> http://www.nation.co.ke/news/21-WhatsApp-groups-spreading-ha
> te-identified/1056-4018322-ix7vff/index.html
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Ali Hussein
> >>>> Principal
> >>>> Hussein & Associates
> >>>> +254 0713 601113
> >>>>
> >>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> >>>> Skype: abu-jomo
> >>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> >>>>
> >>>> "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act
> but a habit." ~ Aristotle
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Sent from my iPad
> >>>>
> >>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>> kictanet mailing list
> >>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
> >>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
> >>>>
> >>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
> ailman/options/kictanet/fmwangangi1%40gmail.com
> >>>>
> >>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> >>>>
> >>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > kictanet mailing list
> > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
> > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
> >
> > Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
> ailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
> >
> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> >
> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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> ------------------------------
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:13:50 +0300
> From: Admin CampusCiti <info at campusciti.com>
> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] 21 WhatsApp groups spreading hate identified -
> Daily Nation
> Message-ID: <AFB36F08-36AC-44BB-8EE4-8601974C4B16 at campusciti.com>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> Not to mention what Bwana CS told us during the Facebook Open House.
> Though he had the good sense to qualify the 'We will not Shutdown the
> Internet'. :-)
>
> Ali Hussein
> Hussein & Associates
> +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
>
> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> Skype: abu-jomo
> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> Blog: www.alyhussein.com
>
> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
> what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
>
> Sent from my iPad
>
> > On 18 Jul 2017, at 5:01 PM, Grace Mutung'u via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >
> > Indeed Ali,
> > There is a problem in defining Internet governance and the roles of
> different actors. Look for instance at this article where two state
> agencies give conflicting statements on the issue of Internet shutdowns:
> > ?Last week, you guys asked me, are you contemplating shutting down some
> of these social media, my answer was and continues to be if it is
> necessary, they will be shut out if it is necessary. So that is my stand
> and I believe that is what ought to be,? Kaparo told a forum on election
> preparedness, bringing together police chefs, judiciary officials, the NCIC
> and the Communication Authority.?
> >
> > then
> >
> > Communications Authority of Kenya Director General Francis Wangusi has
> however, assured that the internet will not be closed, but urged users to
> be responsible at all times.
> >
> >
> >
> > Full article here:
> >
> > http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2017/07/kenya-may-shut-off-
> social-media-august-elections/
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > 2017-07-18 16:34 GMT+03:00 florence mwangangi via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>:
> >> @ Ali, thanks for the link on Internet governace on the liability of
> internet intermediaries. The questions arising in 2014 are weighty today,
> indeed more weighty in view of technological advancements in information
> and communications since 2014, not to mention the individual's
> constitutional guarantees on rights and freedoms related to information,
> communication and assembling/associating with others.
> >> It would be interesting to read a charge sheet on Internet intermediary
> liability.
> >>
> >>
> >>> On 18 Jul 2017 10:15, "Ali Hussein" <ali at hussein.me.ke> wrote:
> >>> Florence
> >>>
> >>> Indeed. This also sort of starts me thinking of Intermediary
> Liability. In the absence of clear Policy Guidelines and Regulatory
> Framework regarding Internet Governance we are left to flounder and make
> 'Roadside Proclamations' like the one being reported here.
> >>>
> >>> See this write up on a workshop on Intermediary Liability that can
> start informing some of these conversations. It is important as a country
> that we define what Internet Governance is. We are into the 20+ year of the
> Internet in this country and we are yet to define what Internet Governance
> looks like for our country. You can now see the folly of that negligence.
> >>>
> >>> Regards
> >>>
> >>> Ali Hussein
> >>> Principal
> >>> Hussein & Associates
> >>>
> >>> Tel: +254 713 601113
> >>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> >>> Skype: abu-jomo
> >>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> >>>
> >>> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
> >>> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
> >>> Nairobi, Kenya.
> >>>
> >>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are
> purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
> organizations that I work with.
> >>>
> >>>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 9:29 AM, florence mwangangi <
> fmwangangi1 at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> Criminal liability is personal. If an administrator is not the author
> of the offending post, he/she cannot be criminally liable in law. Shall we
> also jail the admins of Facebook, Twitter et al on similar lines??
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>> On 18 Jul 2017 07:35, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>>>> Listers
> >>>>>
> >>>>> This conversation goes on.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Can these groups and the content they are spreading be named so that
> Kenyans can know what this is all about?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> As I said yesterday, let's also ensure that the obvious perpetrators
> are brought to book. It shouldn't be hard to discern the truth and
> prosecute those who are found guilty of spreading hatred.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> And as the authorities do this they must exercise utmost
> transparency and caution lest Kenyans start questioning the real motives
> behind this concerted effort to curb Kenyans right to expression. As I have
> said before as Kenyans we need to know one thing:-
> >>>>>
> >>>>> What is wrong offline is also wrong online. I'm not sure why we are
> making a distinction on this issue. Last time I checked the Penal Code
> hasn't changed.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> http://www.nation.co.ke/news/21-WhatsApp-groups-spreading-ha
> te-identified/1056-4018322-ix7vff/index.html
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ali Hussein
> >>>>> Principal
> >>>>> Hussein & Associates
> >>>>> +254 0713 601113
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> >>>>> Skype: abu-jomo
> >>>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act
> but a habit." ~ Aristotle
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Sent from my iPad
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
> >>>>> kictanet mailing list
> >>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
> >>>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
> ailman/options/kictanet/fmwangangi1%40gmail.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >>>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> kictanet mailing list
> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
> >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
> ailman/options/kictanet/nmutungu%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> >>
> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Grace Mutung'u
> > Skype: gracebomu
> > @Bomu
> > PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kictanet mailing list
> > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
> > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
> >
> > Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
> ailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
> >
> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> >
> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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> End of kictanet Digest, Vol 122, Issue 62
> *****************************************
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>
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>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
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