[kictanet] kictanet Digest, Vol 122, Issue 62
Mutindi Muema
missmutindi at gmail.com
Wed Jul 19 12:41:08 EAT 2017
Forgot to reference, the convened section of the order begins at para 17.
On 19 Jul 2017 12:39 p.m., "Mutindi Muema" <missmutindi at gmail.com> wrote:
> Well, whatever that charge sheet looks like... An Indian court has decided
> WhatsApp admins should not be held liable for content on the group. I have
> attached the relevant court order for ease of reference. The precedent in
> India is persuasive for a similar case in Ke.
>
> It will be Interesting to see a Kenyan judgement/Ruling
>
> Mutindi.
> Advocate.
>
> On 19 Jul 2017 12:22 p.m., "Michael Ilishebo via kictanet" <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>> Whatsapp ADMIN
>>
>> I have followed this discourse and interesting points being brought up on
>> the part of Liability by Whatsapp Admin.
>>
>> Whatsapp groups are not like Facebook or Tweeter Groups. With Facebook,
>> it is much easier to delete content by Admins that do not conform to the
>> set rules of the group....however, it is IMPOSSIBLE with Whatsapp to
>> moderate by deleting content because each individual handset acts as a end
>> server. One can only delete what is in their mobile phone and not that
>> which is in a group.
>>
>> As a Law Enforcement Officer (Non Kenyan), this has poised as a serious
>> challenge when it comes to holding Whatsapp Admin liable for 'crimes
>> committed ' in their groups.
>>
>> I stand to be corrected.
>>
>> Michael Ilishebo,
>> Zambia
>>
>> On Jul 18, 2017 16:18, <kictanet-request at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
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>> Today's Topics:
>>
>> 1. Re: 21 WhatsApp groups spreading hate identified - Daily
>> Nation (Admin CampusCiti)
>> 2. Re: 21 WhatsApp groups spreading hate identified - Daily
>> Nation (Admin CampusCiti)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:12:17 +0300
>> From: Admin CampusCiti <info at campusciti.com>
>> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] 21 WhatsApp groups spreading hate identified -
>> Daily Nation
>> Message-ID: <158F0871-A237-4045-B638-C16392FE8C6F at campusciti.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> @Florence
>>
>> I can bet you one thing. With the Capacity Building that KICTANet is
>> doing through KeSIG, where I believe there was strong representation from
>> the boys and girls in blue there will be a lot more sense to read on the
>> Charge Sheet. Contrary to popular belief our Disciplined Forces are
>> catching up fast.
>>
>> To your point though - That Charge Sheet would be interesting.. ?
>>
>> Ali Hussein
>> Hussein & Associates
>> +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
>>
>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>> Skype: abu-jomo
>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>> Blog: www.alyhussein.com
>>
>> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
>> what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> > On 18 Jul 2017, at 4:34 PM, florence mwangangi via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> >
>> > @ Ali, thanks for the link on Internet governace on the liability of
>> internet intermediaries. The questions arising in 2014 are weighty today,
>> indeed more weighty in view of technological advancements in information
>> and communications since 2014, not to mention the individual's
>> constitutional guarantees on rights and freedoms related to information,
>> communication and assembling/associating with others.
>> > It would be interesting to read a charge sheet on Internet intermediary
>> liability.
>> >
>> >
>> >> On 18 Jul 2017 10:15, "Ali Hussein" <ali at hussein.me.ke> wrote:
>> >> Florence
>> >>
>> >> Indeed. This also sort of starts me thinking of Intermediary
>> Liability. In the absence of clear Policy Guidelines and Regulatory
>> Framework regarding Internet Governance we are left to flounder and make
>> 'Roadside Proclamations' like the one being reported here.
>> >>
>> >> See this write up on a workshop on Intermediary Liability that can
>> start informing some of these conversations. It is important as a country
>> that we define what Internet Governance is. We are into the 20+ year of the
>> Internet in this country and we are yet to define what Internet Governance
>> looks like for our country. You can now see the folly of that negligence.
>> >>
>> >> Regards
>> >>
>> >> Ali Hussein
>> >> Principal
>> >> Hussein & Associates
>> >>
>> >> Tel: +254 713 601113
>> >> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>> >> Skype: abu-jomo
>> >> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>> >>
>> >> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
>> >> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
>> >> Nairobi, Kenya.
>> >>
>> >> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are
>> purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>> organizations that I work with.
>> >>
>> >>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 9:29 AM, florence mwangangi <
>> fmwangangi1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>> Criminal liability is personal. If an administrator is not the author
>> of the offending post, he/she cannot be criminally liable in law. Shall we
>> also jail the admins of Facebook, Twitter et al on similar lines??
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>> On 18 Jul 2017 07:35, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> >>>> Listers
>> >>>>
>> >>>> This conversation goes on.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Can these groups and the content they are spreading be named so that
>> Kenyans can know what this is all about?
>> >>>>
>> >>>> As I said yesterday, let's also ensure that the obvious perpetrators
>> are brought to book. It shouldn't be hard to discern the truth and
>> prosecute those who are found guilty of spreading hatred.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> And as the authorities do this they must exercise utmost
>> transparency and caution lest Kenyans start questioning the real motives
>> behind this concerted effort to curb Kenyans right to expression. As I have
>> said before as Kenyans we need to know one thing:-
>> >>>>
>> >>>> What is wrong offline is also wrong online. I'm not sure why we are
>> making a distinction on this issue. Last time I checked the Penal Code
>> hasn't changed.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> http://www.nation.co.ke/news/21-WhatsApp-groups-spreading-ha
>> te-identified/1056-4018322-ix7vff/index.html
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Ali Hussein
>> >>>> Principal
>> >>>> Hussein & Associates
>> >>>> +254 0713 601113
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>> >>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>> >>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>> >>>>
>> >>>> "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act
>> but a habit." ~ Aristotle
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>
>> >>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>> kictanet mailing list
>> >>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> >>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> >>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>> >>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>> >>>>
>> >>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>> ailman/options/kictanet/fmwangangi1%40gmail.com
>> >>>>
>> >>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>> >>>>
>> >>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
>> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>> >>
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > kictanet mailing list
>> > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>> > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>> >
>> > Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>> ailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
>> >
>> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>> >
>> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 2
>> Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:13:50 +0300
>> From: Admin CampusCiti <info at campusciti.com>
>> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] 21 WhatsApp groups spreading hate identified -
>> Daily Nation
>> Message-ID: <AFB36F08-36AC-44BB-8EE4-8601974C4B16 at campusciti.com>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Not to mention what Bwana CS told us during the Facebook Open House.
>> Though he had the good sense to qualify the 'We will not Shutdown the
>> Internet'. :-)
>>
>> Ali Hussein
>> Hussein & Associates
>> +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
>>
>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>> Skype: abu-jomo
>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>> Blog: www.alyhussein.com
>>
>> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
>> what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> > On 18 Jul 2017, at 5:01 PM, Grace Mutung'u via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> >
>> > Indeed Ali,
>> > There is a problem in defining Internet governance and the roles of
>> different actors. Look for instance at this article where two state
>> agencies give conflicting statements on the issue of Internet shutdowns:
>> > ?Last week, you guys asked me, are you contemplating shutting down some
>> of these social media, my answer was and continues to be if it is
>> necessary, they will be shut out if it is necessary. So that is my stand
>> and I believe that is what ought to be,? Kaparo told a forum on election
>> preparedness, bringing together police chefs, judiciary officials, the NCIC
>> and the Communication Authority.?
>> >
>> > then
>> >
>> > Communications Authority of Kenya Director General Francis Wangusi has
>> however, assured that the internet will not be closed, but urged users to
>> be responsible at all times.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > Full article here:
>> >
>> > http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2017/07/kenya-may-shut-off-s
>> ocial-media-august-elections/
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > 2017-07-18 16:34 GMT+03:00 florence mwangangi via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>:
>> >> @ Ali, thanks for the link on Internet governace on the liability of
>> internet intermediaries. The questions arising in 2014 are weighty today,
>> indeed more weighty in view of technological advancements in information
>> and communications since 2014, not to mention the individual's
>> constitutional guarantees on rights and freedoms related to information,
>> communication and assembling/associating with others.
>> >> It would be interesting to read a charge sheet on Internet
>> intermediary liability.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> On 18 Jul 2017 10:15, "Ali Hussein" <ali at hussein.me.ke> wrote:
>> >>> Florence
>> >>>
>> >>> Indeed. This also sort of starts me thinking of Intermediary
>> Liability. In the absence of clear Policy Guidelines and Regulatory
>> Framework regarding Internet Governance we are left to flounder and make
>> 'Roadside Proclamations' like the one being reported here.
>> >>>
>> >>> See this write up on a workshop on Intermediary Liability that can
>> start informing some of these conversations. It is important as a country
>> that we define what Internet Governance is. We are into the 20+ year of the
>> Internet in this country and we are yet to define what Internet Governance
>> looks like for our country. You can now see the folly of that negligence.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regards
>> >>>
>> >>> Ali Hussein
>> >>> Principal
>> >>> Hussein & Associates
>> >>>
>> >>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>> >>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>> >>> Skype: abu-jomo
>> >>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>> >>>
>> >>> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
>> >>> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
>> >>> Nairobi, Kenya.
>> >>>
>> >>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are
>> purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>> organizations that I work with.
>> >>>
>> >>>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 9:29 AM, florence mwangangi <
>> fmwangangi1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >>>> Criminal liability is personal. If an administrator is not the
>> author of the offending post, he/she cannot be criminally liable in law.
>> Shall we also jail the admins of Facebook, Twitter et al on similar lines??
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>> On 18 Jul 2017 07:35, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> >>>>> Listers
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> This conversation goes on.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Can these groups and the content they are spreading be named so
>> that Kenyans can know what this is all about?
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> As I said yesterday, let's also ensure that the obvious
>> perpetrators are brought to book. It shouldn't be hard to discern the truth
>> and prosecute those who are found guilty of spreading hatred.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> And as the authorities do this they must exercise utmost
>> transparency and caution lest Kenyans start questioning the real motives
>> behind this concerted effort to curb Kenyans right to expression. As I have
>> said before as Kenyans we need to know one thing:-
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> What is wrong offline is also wrong online. I'm not sure why we are
>> making a distinction on this issue. Last time I checked the Penal Code
>> hasn't changed.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> http://www.nation.co.ke/news/21-WhatsApp-groups-spreading-ha
>> te-identified/1056-4018322-ix7vff/index.html
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Ali Hussein
>> >>>>> Principal
>> >>>>> Hussein & Associates
>> >>>>> +254 0713 601113
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>> >>>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>> >>>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act
>> but a habit." ~ Aristotle
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Sent from my iPad
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> _______________________________________________
>> >>>>> kictanet mailing list
>> >>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> >>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> >>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>> >>>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/fmwang
>> angi1%40gmail.com
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>> >>>>>
>> >>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
>> privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> _______________________________________________
>> >> kictanet mailing list
>> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> >> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> >> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>> >> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>> >>
>> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>> ailman/options/kictanet/nmutungu%40gmail.com
>> >>
>> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>> >>
>> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Grace Mutung'u
>> > Skype: gracebomu
>> > @Bomu
>> > PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
>> >
>> > _______________________________________________
>> > kictanet mailing list
>> > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> > Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>> > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>> >
>> > Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>> ailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
>> >
>> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>> >
>> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>> -------------- next part --------------
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>>
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>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kictanet mailing list
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>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>>
>> End of kictanet Digest, Vol 122, Issue 62
>> *****************************************
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kictanet mailing list
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m
>> ailman/options/kictanet/missmutindi%40gmail.com
>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>
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