[kictanet] kictanet Digest, Vol 122, Issue 62
Michael Ilishebo
ilishebo at gmail.com
Wed Jul 19 12:21:13 EAT 2017
Whatsapp ADMIN
I have followed this discourse and interesting points being brought up on
the part of Liability by Whatsapp Admin.
Whatsapp groups are not like Facebook or Tweeter Groups. With Facebook, it
is much easier to delete content by Admins that do not conform to the set
rules of the group....however, it is IMPOSSIBLE with Whatsapp to moderate
by deleting content because each individual handset acts as a end server.
One can only delete what is in their mobile phone and not that which is in
a group.
As a Law Enforcement Officer (Non Kenyan), this has poised as a serious
challenge when it comes to holding Whatsapp Admin liable for 'crimes
committed ' in their groups.
I stand to be corrected.
Michael Ilishebo,
Zambia
On Jul 18, 2017 16:18, <kictanet-request at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
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Today's Topics:
1. Re: 21 WhatsApp groups spreading hate identified - Daily
Nation (Admin CampusCiti)
2. Re: 21 WhatsApp groups spreading hate identified - Daily
Nation (Admin CampusCiti)
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Message: 1
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:12:17 +0300
From: Admin CampusCiti <info at campusciti.com>
To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] 21 WhatsApp groups spreading hate identified -
Daily Nation
Message-ID: <158F0871-A237-4045-B638-C16392FE8C6F at campusciti.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
@Florence
I can bet you one thing. With the Capacity Building that KICTANet is doing
through KeSIG, where I believe there was strong representation from the
boys and girls in blue there will be a lot more sense to read on the Charge
Sheet. Contrary to popular belief our Disciplined Forces are catching up
fast.
To your point though - That Charge Sheet would be interesting.. ?
Ali Hussein
Hussein & Associates
+254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what
no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
Sent from my iPad
> On 18 Jul 2017, at 4:34 PM, florence mwangangi via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> @ Ali, thanks for the link on Internet governace on the liability of
internet intermediaries. The questions arising in 2014 are weighty today,
indeed more weighty in view of technological advancements in information
and communications since 2014, not to mention the individual's
constitutional guarantees on rights and freedoms related to information,
communication and assembling/associating with others.
> It would be interesting to read a charge sheet on Internet intermediary
liability.
>
>
>> On 18 Jul 2017 10:15, "Ali Hussein" <ali at hussein.me.ke> wrote:
>> Florence
>>
>> Indeed. This also sort of starts me thinking of Intermediary Liability.
In the absence of clear Policy Guidelines and Regulatory Framework
regarding Internet Governance we are left to flounder and make 'Roadside
Proclamations' like the one being reported here.
>>
>> See this write up on a workshop on Intermediary Liability that can start
informing some of these conversations. It is important as a country that we
define what Internet Governance is. We are into the 20+ year of the
Internet in this country and we are yet to define what Internet Governance
looks like for our country. You can now see the folly of that negligence.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Ali Hussein
>> Principal
>> Hussein & Associates
>>
>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>> Skype: abu-jomo
>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>
>> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
>> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
>> Nairobi, Kenya.
>>
>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
organizations that I work with.
>>
>>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 9:29 AM, florence mwangangi <
fmwangangi1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Criminal liability is personal. If an administrator is not the author
of the offending post, he/she cannot be criminally liable in law. Shall we
also jail the admins of Facebook, Twitter et al on similar lines??
>>>
>>>
>>>> On 18 Jul 2017 07:35, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>> Listers
>>>>
>>>> This conversation goes on.
>>>>
>>>> Can these groups and the content they are spreading be named so that
Kenyans can know what this is all about?
>>>>
>>>> As I said yesterday, let's also ensure that the obvious perpetrators
are brought to book. It shouldn't be hard to discern the truth and
prosecute those who are found guilty of spreading hatred.
>>>>
>>>> And as the authorities do this they must exercise utmost transparency
and caution lest Kenyans start questioning the real motives behind this
concerted effort to curb Kenyans right to expression. As I have said before
as Kenyans we need to know one thing:-
>>>>
>>>> What is wrong offline is also wrong online. I'm not sure why we are
making a distinction on this issue. Last time I checked the Penal Code
hasn't changed.
>>>>
>>>> http://www.nation.co.ke/news/21-WhatsApp-groups-spreading-
hate-identified/1056-4018322-ix7vff/index.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ali Hussein
>>>> Principal
>>>> Hussein & Associates
>>>> +254 0713 601113
>>>>
>>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>>>
>>>> "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act
but a habit." ~ Aristotle
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>>>
>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
mailman/options/kictanet/fmwangangi1%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>
>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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Message: 2
Date: Tue, 18 Jul 2017 17:13:50 +0300
From: Admin CampusCiti <info at campusciti.com>
To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] 21 WhatsApp groups spreading hate identified -
Daily Nation
Message-ID: <AFB36F08-36AC-44BB-8EE4-8601974C4B16 at campusciti.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
Not to mention what Bwana CS told us during the Facebook Open House. Though
he had the good sense to qualify the 'We will not Shutdown the Internet'.
:-)
Ali Hussein
Hussein & Associates
+254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
Blog: www.alyhussein.com
"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what
no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
Sent from my iPad
> On 18 Jul 2017, at 5:01 PM, Grace Mutung'u via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
> Indeed Ali,
> There is a problem in defining Internet governance and the roles of
different actors. Look for instance at this article where two state
agencies give conflicting statements on the issue of Internet shutdowns:
> ?Last week, you guys asked me, are you contemplating shutting down some
of these social media, my answer was and continues to be if it is
necessary, they will be shut out if it is necessary. So that is my stand
and I believe that is what ought to be,? Kaparo told a forum on election
preparedness, bringing together police chefs, judiciary officials, the NCIC
and the Communication Authority.?
>
> then
>
> Communications Authority of Kenya Director General Francis Wangusi has
however, assured that the internet will not be closed, but urged users to
be responsible at all times.
>
>
>
> Full article here:
>
> http://www.capitalfm.co.ke/news/2017/07/kenya-may-shut-
off-social-media-august-elections/
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2017-07-18 16:34 GMT+03:00 florence mwangangi via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>:
>> @ Ali, thanks for the link on Internet governace on the liability of
internet intermediaries. The questions arising in 2014 are weighty today,
indeed more weighty in view of technological advancements in information
and communications since 2014, not to mention the individual's
constitutional guarantees on rights and freedoms related to information,
communication and assembling/associating with others.
>> It would be interesting to read a charge sheet on Internet intermediary
liability.
>>
>>
>>> On 18 Jul 2017 10:15, "Ali Hussein" <ali at hussein.me.ke> wrote:
>>> Florence
>>>
>>> Indeed. This also sort of starts me thinking of Intermediary Liability.
In the absence of clear Policy Guidelines and Regulatory Framework
regarding Internet Governance we are left to flounder and make 'Roadside
Proclamations' like the one being reported here.
>>>
>>> See this write up on a workshop on Intermediary Liability that can
start informing some of these conversations. It is important as a country
that we define what Internet Governance is. We are into the 20+ year of the
Internet in this country and we are yet to define what Internet Governance
looks like for our country. You can now see the folly of that negligence.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Ali Hussein
>>> Principal
>>> Hussein & Associates
>>>
>>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>>
>>> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
>>> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
>>> Nairobi, Kenya.
>>>
>>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
organizations that I work with.
>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jul 18, 2017 at 9:29 AM, florence mwangangi <
fmwangangi1 at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Criminal liability is personal. If an administrator is not the author
of the offending post, he/she cannot be criminally liable in law. Shall we
also jail the admins of Facebook, Twitter et al on similar lines??
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On 18 Jul 2017 07:35, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>> Listers
>>>>>
>>>>> This conversation goes on.
>>>>>
>>>>> Can these groups and the content they are spreading be named so that
Kenyans can know what this is all about?
>>>>>
>>>>> As I said yesterday, let's also ensure that the obvious perpetrators
are brought to book. It shouldn't be hard to discern the truth and
prosecute those who are found guilty of spreading hatred.
>>>>>
>>>>> And as the authorities do this they must exercise utmost transparency
and caution lest Kenyans start questioning the real motives behind this
concerted effort to curb Kenyans right to expression. As I have said before
as Kenyans we need to know one thing:-
>>>>>
>>>>> What is wrong offline is also wrong online. I'm not sure why we are
making a distinction on this issue. Last time I checked the Penal Code
hasn't changed.
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.nation.co.ke/news/21-WhatsApp-groups-spreading-
hate-identified/1056-4018322-ix7vff/index.html
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ali Hussein
>>>>> Principal
>>>>> Hussein & Associates
>>>>> +254 0713 601113
>>>>>
>>>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>>>>
>>>>> "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act
but a habit." ~ Aristotle
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>>>>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>>>>
>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
mailman/options/kictanet/fmwangangi1%40gmail.com
>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>
>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kictanet mailing list
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
mailman/options/kictanet/nmutungu%40gmail.com
>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
>
>
> --
> Grace Mutung'u
> Skype: gracebomu
> @Bomu
> PGP ID : 0x33A3450F
>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com
>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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