[kictanet] ICT Authority, not Treasury, should oversee IFMIS

Thu Jan 19 16:30:33 EAT 2017

not sure, maybe those still in public service can update us.

Regards,

Sent from Windows Mail

From: Barrack Otieno
Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎January‎ ‎19‎, ‎2017 ‎4‎:‎29‎ ‎PM
To: 'Watila Alex - Current'
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions

Hi Alex,

Interesting, was it dropped? Do you know the reasons why?

Best Regards

On 1/19/17, awatila at yahoo.co.uk <awatila at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> ISO 27001 was actually in the performance contracts of state corporations a
> few years back. It used to be the next step after ISO 9001 certification
> requirements in the performance contract.
>
>
> Also IT departments of organizations that are ISO 9001 (QMS) certified are
> audited using ISO 27001 controls.
>
>
> Regards,
>
>
> Alex
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Windows Mail
>
>
>
>
>
> From: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
> Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎January‎ ‎19‎, ‎2017 ‎3‎:‎20‎ ‎PM
> To: 'Watila Alex - Current'
> Cc: Barrack Otieno
>
>
>
>
>
> We also have numerous Standards such as the ISO 27000 series available
> at Kenya Bureau of Standards that address most of the human and
> security issues at the cost of a crate of milk, so far it appears only
> the Communications Authority has embraced the same, time for this
> standards to added to the Perfomance contracting framework.
>
> Regards
>
> On 1/19/17, S.M. Muraya via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>> @Walu It should be a KICTA (not Treasury) event (hopefully in Nairobi).
>>
>> How else do they prove they are an "Authority" in providing Cyber
>> security
>> and transparency in Government?
>>
>> SMM
>>
>> *"Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one
>> who takes a city." Prov 16:32*
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>>> @Muritu,
>>>
>>> ICT Governance Framework?...spot on. The software is innocent. How you
>>> shape the people, processes and procedures around it so as to have
>>> checks
>>> and balances is what makes or breaks software.
>>>
>>> This is often quite obvious at the political level i.e Executive,
>>> Legislature and Judiciary relationships,  but rarely understood nor
>>> practiced within the ICT ecosystem. I alway recommend the COBIT
>>> framework
>>> <http://www.isaca.org/knowledge-center/cobit/pages/overview.aspx> for
>>> those keen on ICT Governance issues.
>>>
>>> COBIT - IT Governance Framework - Infor...
>>> <http://www.isaca.org/knowledge-center/cobit/pages/overview.aspx>
>>>
>>>
>>> @Muraya, organize an IFMIS forum and invite me. Would be glad to give my
>>> fraction of bitcoins :-)
>>>
>>> walu.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* James Muritu via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> *To:* jwalu at yahoo.com
>>> *Cc:* James Muritu <james.muritu at gmail.com>
>>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 19, 2017 12:31 PM
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority, not Treasury, should oversee
>>> IFMIS
>>>
>>> Interesting conversations going on here. In simple terms, what IFIMIS
>>> lacks is a Governance Framework. The "software component" of an ERP is
>>> just
>>> one drop in the ocean. People+Processes+Operating Procedures+Decision
>>> Rights are the bigger drops. Am currently reviewing a similar system in
>>> a
>>> Kenya based corporation and for almost 2 years, the system had been
>>> blamed
>>> for all the wrong reasons. The ultimate results, revealed more loopholes
>>> outside the actual software.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 12:01 PM, waudo siganga via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>> Thank Walu. I'll wait fro the coffee...
>>> W.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Jan 19, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Walubengo J wrote:
>>>
>>> @Daktari Siganga,
>>>
>>> I was the ICT Director for our university for 5yrs and managed both the
>>> University Network &  ERP - but I dont say :-)
>>>
>>> We switch between the classroom and ICT operations like that. So I kinda
>>> have both the academic and practical view of these things
>>>
>>> Anyway, you are right in that the IT expert(Superuser) should NOT  be a
>>> normal  'Finance' /'HR'/Procurement/ or other regualr user of the ERP.
>>> However, the IT guys still assign these roles and privileges to the
>>> various
>>> functional users. i.e. they must grant rights to the Finance/HR/ and
>>> other
>>> Directors to execute their work within the ERP.
>>>
>>> Different implementations (company policy) maybe that this is delegated
>>> to
>>> the various functional heads who can then subsequently grant
>>> privileges/access rights down through their departments.
>>>
>>> But this is NOT ideal since you lose the segregation of duties where you
>>> want the Functional heads(e.g. Finance Director) to make the
>>> access-rights
>>> requests IN WRITING, and have SOMEONE ELSE implement that request.
>>>
>>> This is the 'control' auditors are looking for when auditing the
>>> information system later on - in terms of checks and balances. Such a
>>> control is what leads to the questions like:-
>>> a) Who within the ERP system has privileges that were not formally
>>> requested for in writing? Or
>>> b) Who within the ERP system has more privileges than what was formally
>>> requested for?
>>> c) Who within the ERP exists but has no supporting access request from
>>> the
>>> Functional head?
>>> d) etc, etc.
>>>
>>> Even if the IT expert abused his/her superuser privileges by granting
>>> themselves some user rights within the Financial module, they will be
>>> outed
>>> by the above audit process.
>>>
>>> Denying the IT expert the ability to grant access rights within the ERP
>>> and passing the same to the functional heads does not solve the problem
>>> of
>>> abuse. The functional heads can simply become the new kingpins. Only
>>> segregation of duty cures the problem of abuse.
>>>
>>> But we can meet over coffee and share the pros and cons of the various
>>>  implementations :-)
>>>
>>> walu.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> From: waudo siganga <emailsignet at mailcan.com>
>>> To: Walubengo J <jwalu at yahoo.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke >
>>> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 10:36 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority, not Treasury, should oversee
>>> IFMIS
>>>
>>> Hi Walu - I can see from your comments that you have never worked in a
>>> finance environment. For secure setup there is no way "IT guys must then
>>> translate x, y & z function into the appropriate access levels for that
>>> accountant within the system". Simply put a person who is a trained IT
>>> expert knows too much about how the system works and therefore cannot be
>>> assigned access administration. The overall person for access admin is a
>>> "super-user" or "Chief Security Officer"or a title in that direction.
>>> This
>>> super user assigns access rights to users, such as ability to
>>> add,delete,
>>> update, edit, view, etc records. To assign these rights in practically
>>> all
>>> IT systems the super user must himself have those same rights, otherwise
>>> he/she cannot assign them to other users. A system where a super-user is
>>> an
>>> IT expert is a very weak system. The IT expert should never have ability
>>> to
>>> enter a system and change records. If you analyse the IFMIS problem you
>>> will realise that it is not a problem of IT experts infiltrating the
>>> system. It is just password misuse by ordinary users. At least I agree
>>> with
>>> you on one thing - IT expertise role and password administration must
>>> never
>>> be put in the same office. In most banks and finance environments the
>>> super-user function is undertaken by the CEO or a very senior executive
>>> who
>>> is OUTSIDE the IT function.
>>>
>>> THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH IFMIS. The users, as is normal in any IT
>>> system,
>>> are the weakest link. It is like having pilots who are busy with
>>> corruption
>>> to fly a plane then when the plane crashes we say there was a problem
>>> with
>>> the plane.
>>>
>>> W.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017, at 02:54 PM, Walubengo J wrote:
>>>
>>> @Dr Siganga, my comments below:
>>>
>>> >>1. Hi Walu - I do not agree with you that access administration
>>> (passwords) is a technical function. In most cases passwords just mimic
>>> authorization structures that pre-exist in a manual system.
>>> >>>
>>> Response:Yes and NO.
>>> Yes passwords and their access levels are controls that mimic the
>>> authorization levels of the manual system. However, their implementation
>>> in
>>> an ideal environment should be segregated.   E.g the finance director
>>> should say in writing: 'I need my accountant to do x, y & z function' .
>>> The IT guys must then translate x, y & z function into the appropriate
>>> access levels for that accountant within the system.
>>>
>>> Finance retains the administrative oversight in terms of triggering the
>>> password request and profiling the access levels desired. IT retains the
>>> technical function of implementing the same. Never put these two roles
>>> in
>>> one office. Shida mingi inajiletea.
>>>
>>> >>2. I also differ with your suggestion that it is the work of technical
>>> people to enforce, check or review system controls. That should be the
>>> function of an independent auditor.
>>> >>
>>> RESPONSE: Yes and NO.
>>> Yes, independent or external auditors (hopefully Information System
>>> Auditors) do review the  technical controls. But this is often an annual
>>> exercise. So serious organisation do not wait for a year to be told
>>> their
>>> controls were not effective. They have INTERNAL information system
>>> auditors
>>> (who are technical) to continuously  monitor/enforce that these IT
>>> controls
>>> are in place, working and/or need to be updated. Other organisation may
>>> allocate this role to the Information Security Officer, either way these
>>> are ICT technical chaps.
>>>
>>> walu.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> From: waudo siganga <emailsignet at mailcan.com>
>>> To: Walubengo J <jwalu at yahoo.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke >
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 1:55 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority, not Treasury, should oversee
>>> IFMIS
>>>
>>> Hi Walu - I do not agree with you that access administration (passwords)
>>> is a technical function. In most cases passwords just mimic
>>> authorization
>>> structures that pre-exist in a manual system. It is very important that
>>> the
>>> access of technical people to a system, especially a financial one, be
>>> as
>>> inhibited as possible. Those who access the system should only be
>>> capable
>>> of doing the functions they would perform in a manual system. To enhance
>>> security of the system, access administration should be overseen by a
>>> most
>>> senior person who is NOT trained to do technical work on the system.
>>>
>>> I also differ with your suggestion that it is the work of technical
>>> people
>>> to enforce, check or review system controls. That should be the function
>>> of
>>> an independent auditor.
>>>
>>> Overall I think there is much misunderstanding about IFMIS. The problem
>>> is
>>> not technical; it is administrative. Specifically access administration
>>> (passwords).
>>>
>>> W.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017, at 01:06 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet wrote:
>>>
>>> Grace B via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke > wrote>>>
>>> Second, the problem with IFMIS, it appears is a lack of commitment to
>>> simple values such as integrity and prudent stewardship of public funds.
>>> What guarantee wold we have that ICTA would be different from Treasury?
>>>
>>> >>
>>> Segregation of duties solves this.  Treasury continues being the Process
>>> owner, but surrenders the Technical leadership of the system/ERP to ICT
>>> Authority. So if it is a case of passwords and their use, expiry amongst
>>> other technical issues, we know it is ICT Authority to manage (and take
>>> blame).
>>>
>>> It is often a confusing and thin line. The line between Administrative
>>> and
>>> Technical authority.
>>>
>>> But you can look at it in terms of the President's Security detail.
>>> The
>>> President maybe the (Administrative) boss of his security detail, but
>>> the
>>> President can never tell his security detail HOW to guard him or what
>>> weapons to use or how many guards he needs, where to position them etc.
>>>
>>> These are TECHNICAL issues that the President cannot and should never
>>> pretend to be dictating on since they lie squarely within the
>>> NIS/Inspector
>>> General domain. The moment NIS start taking technical instructions from
>>> the
>>> President, is the moment our security system will collapse.
>>>
>>> If we get this seperation of authority right, we solve the IFMIS puzzle.
>>>
>>> walu.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> From: Grace B via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke >
>>> To: jwalu at yahoo.com
>>> Cc: Grace B <nmutungu at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 7:11 AM
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority, not Treasury, should oversee
>>> IFMIS
>>>
>>> Interesting discussion. There are those who would look at IFMIS as a
>>> public finance management issue as opposed to an ICT one but this is not
>>> really count when giving management mandate to either Treasury or ICTA
>>> as
>>> long as the objectives of PFM (Article 201 of Katiba) are met.
>>> One of the issues voiced about IFMIS since devolution/new Constitution
>>> has
>>> been the problems experienced by county governments and other
>>> independent
>>> organs eg commissions in accessing funds in a timely manner. (We assume
>>> that Executive has not had too many problems assessing funds and may
>>> have
>>> indeed been facilitating leakage)
>>> One issue with transferring the responsibility of maintaining IFMIS to
>>> ICTA, it seems would be that there could be few differences between ICTA
>>> and Treasury. First, both are Executive institutions that may support
>>> devolved and independent structures in line with the soft policy
>>> direction
>>> of the government of the day. Second, the problem with IFMIS, it appears
>>> is
>>> a lack of commitment to simple values such as integrity and prudent
>>> stewardship of public funds. What guarantee wold we have that ICTA would
>>> be
>>> different from Treasury?
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> 2017-01-18 5:54 GMT+03:00 Ali Hussein via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke >:
>>>
>>> Barrack
>>>
>>> We are saying the same thing really.. Let's assume that the ICTA is the
>>> ICT Department of the Government (which I doubt it is equipped to
>>> execute
>>> that mandate) then 'managing' here really means providing support to the
>>> system.
>>>
>>> I think it's time the Government considers the role of Chief Information
>>> Officer to really manage the strategic thrust of all ICT initiatives
>>> across
>>> ministries. The CIO can then be held accountable for overall efficiency
>>> and
>>> security of all Government ICT Systems. This CIO needs to report
>>> directly
>>> to the Chief Executive Officer (President) of the country. Now, that
>>> person
>>> could be seconded or be a part of the ICTA with a doted line
>>> responsibility
>>> to the CS, MOICT...
>>>
>>> Ultimately the overall responsibility of how well our Government ICT
>>> Systems work lies squarely on the CEO's desk. Look no further.
>>>
>>> Ali Hussein
>>> Principal
>>> Hussein & Associates
>>> +254 0713 601113
>>>
>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin. com/in/alihkassim
>>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>>> "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but
>>> a
>>> habit."  ~ Aristotle
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>> On 17 Jan 2017, at 11:27 PM, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke > wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi Ali,
>>>
>>> ERP grew from MRP (Material Resource Planning which was a means of
>>> planning and allocating resources in Factories. The difference between
>>> the two is that MRP's were stand alone systems whereas ERP's are
>>> modular and have more functionality. From an evolution perspective ,
>>> it would be ideal to manage IFMIS from Ministry of Finance since they
>>> are the custodians of the treasury and normally allocate resources
>>> through the budgeting process. From a Project Management perspective,
>>> it would be ideal to manage IFMIS from ICTA since it is the
>>> specialized agency meant to manage government technology investments.
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> On 1/17/17, S.M. Muraya via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke >
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Doubt Treasury economists and accountants are well placed to provide
>>> Cyber
>>>
>>> Security :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> We need the ICT Authority to configure enterprise wide data protection
>>>
>>> (limiting theft of passwords & access to IFMIS).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> In 2016, the UN ranked the UK as # 1 in providing digital services.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://publicadministration. un.org/egovkb/en-us/Reports/
>>> UN-E-Government-Survey-2016
>>> <https://publicadministration.un.org/egovkb/en-us/Reports/UN-E-Government-Survey-2016>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The Government Digital Service (GDS) is part of their Cabinet Office,
>>> not
>>>
>>> their Treasury.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.gov.uk/government/ publications/govuk-pay/govuk- pay
>>> <https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/govuk-pay/govuk-pay>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Their Treasury is consulted about the payment system  👆🏾  the GDS
>>>
>>> continues to build.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SMM
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *"Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one
>>>
>>> who takes a city." Prov 16:32*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 9:45 PM, Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I fundamentally disagree with this assertion.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> First,y, the role of a CIO is to support the enterprise. I have never
>>>
>>> heard in my life of an ERP Director. This is just adding a superfluous
>>>
>>> layer of useless bureaucracy.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The owner of an ERP is the business with each department taking
>>> ownership
>>>
>>> of their components:-
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 1. Financials - CFO
>>>
>>> 2. CRM (Commercial/marketing/sales)
>>>
>>> 3. Procurement - Procurement which sometimes comes under Finance
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The CIO takes ownership to ensure that the company is well oiled to
>>>
>>> execute on its mandate. This in my humble opinion goes beyond ERPs and
>>>
>>> talks to aligning the Technology Strategy with the Business Strategy.
>>> For
>>>
>>> example in the banking sector where increasingly the more savvy banks
>>> are
>>>
>>> taking a 'Platform Thinking' approach. This allows partners to plug into
>>>
>>> their core technology through APIs to enable them extend capabilities
>>> and
>>>
>>> hence offerings to their customers.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The role of a CIO has fundamentally changed to speak to the need for
>>>
>>> using
>>>
>>> Technology as an accelerator to successful business models.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Secondly, I don't see how the ICT Authority would be better in managing
>>>
>>> the monster that is IFMIS. Let them first learn the basics of
>>>
>>> communicating
>>>
>>> effectively with the community before taking on this elephant in the
>>>
>>> room.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *Ali Hussein*
>>>
>>> *Principal*
>>>
>>> *Hussein & Associates*
>>>
>>> +254 0713 601113
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/ alihkassim
>>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but
>>> a
>>>
>>> habit."  ~ Aristotle
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 17 Jan 2017, at 6:42 PM, S.M. Muraya via kictanet <
>>>
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Interesting comments...
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ICT Authority, not Treasury, should oversee IFMIS
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-
>>> <http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560->
>>>
>>> 3520560-5j04aq/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>> development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>> bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
>>> do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>> mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>> development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>> bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
>>> do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
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>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
>>> mailman/options/kictanet/murigi.muraya%40gmail.com
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>> development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>> bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
>>> do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Barrack O. Otieno
> +254721325277
> +254733206359
> Skype: barrack.otieno
> PGP ID: 0x2611D86A
>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/kictanet
> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/
>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/awatila%40yahoo.co.uk
>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for
> people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.

-- 
Barrack O. Otieno
+254721325277
+254733206359
Skype: barrack.otieno
PGP ID: 0x2611D86A
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