[kictanet] Music Copyright Owners sue ISPs for allowing Kenyans to download content illegally
Bernard Kioko
bkioko at bernsoft.com
Fri Jan 30 17:48:40 EAT 2015
Victor,
I have quickly read through your research. Thanks for sharing. Very
informative. I will seek you soon to see how the Intellectual Property
Owners Association can help on some of the proposals in there.
Regards
From: Victor Kapiyo [mailto:vkapiyo at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 5:02 PM
To: Bernard Kioko; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Music Copyright Owners sue ISPs for allowing Kenyans
to download content illegally
Jambo,
Very interesting discussions on the this subject.
We had alluded to some of these challenges and made recommendations in a
study on intermediary liability in Kenya. The report is available here:
https://www.apc.org/en/system/files/Intermediary_Liability_in_Kenya.pdf
I am glad to hear that these issues are finally coming to public debate and
more so, before a court, since, and unfortunately so, the bodies responsible
as stated above, haven't been able to propose amendments to the law that
would address the concerns of right holders. I hope the court will clarify
the position in Kenya regarding these contentious issues.
Lastly, I think it is also important to state that copyright should not be
used to restrict the enjoyment of the copyrighted material or services (e.g.
internet/websites) through which copyrighted material are shared. I like the
example of the bhang in a car. The law should also be applied carefully and
with sufficient precision to ensure that it only targets the infringers.
There are notable and progressive/retrogressive decisions available from
India, Germany, UK and the US which would be useful in helping our courts
and govt. bodies think through the best options for the country.
Victor
Victor Kapiyo
====================================================
"Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude" Zig Ziglar
On 30 January 2015 at 16:04, Bernard Kioko via kictanet
<kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
Thank you Barrack,
Of course I hope this discussion has ignited some people here to consider
investing in music industry. If you are interested and want to know how
(including how to clear licenses so you can use music legally in your
business), do not hesitate to get in touch.
Regards
-----Original Message-----
From: Barrack Otieno [mailto:otieno.barrack at gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 3:41 PM
To: Bernard Kioko
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Music Copyright Owners sue ISPs for allowing Kenyans
to download content illegally
Thank you Bernard,
Your last email explains a lot thank you for taking the effort to develop a
policy environments whose beneficiaries will be future generations.
Best Regards
On 1/30/15, Bernard Kioko <bkioko at bernsoft.com> wrote:
> Barrack,
>
> I agree.
>
> Part of figuring out, requires the steps that have been taken.
>
> Regards
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kictanet
> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+bkioko <mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bbkioko>
=bernsoft.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke] On
> Behalf Of Barrack Otieno via kictanet
> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 1:04 PM
> To: bkioko at bernsoft.com
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Music Copyright Owners sue ISPs for allowing
> Kenyans to download content illegally
>
> That is a good analogy David. I think our musicians need to figure
> out how best to survive in the present ecosystem,at times legalese is
> not always the best route.
>
> Best Regards
>
> On 1/30/15, David Makali via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> wrote:
>> Wrong analogy, James. You do not ask NTSA but you apprehend the
>> vehicle owner/driver/The transporter. Try and ferry your Bhang with
>> DHL or even Easy Coach if you know what I mean. You have to declare
>> your goods! Same to those who want to use the ISP. Vicarious liability...
>> David
>>
>> This is official mail. If you doubt the content, call back on
>> +254722517540.
>>
>>> On Jan 29, 2015, at 3:09 PM, James Mbugua via kictanet
>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>> Bernard,
>>>
>>> I asked you, Can you sue NTSA for allowing Bhang to be transported
>>> on our roads?
>>>
>>> ???
>>>
>>> Exactly, how the hell are they supposed to know who is transporting
>>> bhang?
>>>
>>> In your case, exactly how the hell are ISPs supposed to know you are
>>> downloading music illegally?
>>>
>>> You guys are just looking for traction here....the people you should
>>> talk to are Kenic if they registered them and the owners of the
>>> servers where these sites are hosted. ISPs have nothing to do with this.
>>>
>>> James
>>>
>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Bernard Kioko via kictanet
>>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>> At one point many ppl didn't believe mpesa would be possible.. It
>>>> took intervention from the late minister michuki....
>>>>
>>>> We r country used to being first in many things
>>>>
>>>>> On Jan 29, 2015 2:59 PM, "Mark Kipyegon via kictanet"
>>>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>> From a technical standpoint how feasible is it to simply blacklist
>>>>> sites?
>>>>>
>>>>> Clone sites and proxies exist to circumvent these blocks.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 29/01/2015 14:48, Bernard Kioko via kictanet wrote:
>>>>> > James i posted a link where high court in UK ruled those same
>>>>> > sites be blocked by ISPs and that's happening.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > What's ur comment on that?
>>>>> > On Jan 29, 2015 2:43 PM, "James Mbugua via kictanet" <
>>>>> > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>> >
>>>>> >> Listers,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Hmm...I don't know why I get the feeling this is a case of
>>>>> >> throwing mud at the wall to see if it will stick.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> ISPs have never been held liable for downloading illegal
>>>>> >> content anywhere in the world. From the get go let us dispense
>>>>> >> with that. Neither will they be found so in this case.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I remember vividly when Napster came out and also when Kazaa
>>>>> >> followed....groups went after the sites not the ISPs. To this
>>>>> >> day, it is piracy sites that even the FBI goes for not the
>>>>> >> likes of Comcast or AT$T.
>>>>> >> Data privacy does not allow you to start checking what your
>>>>> >> customer is downloading or uploading....this is not China and
>>>>> >> getting into that territory is very dangerous for people's
>>>>> >> rights.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Let these guys do the hard work and go for the piracy sites or
>>>>> >> sue NTSA for allowing bhang to be transported on our roads.
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> lol
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> Regards,
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> James
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Davis Onsakia via kictanet <
>>>>> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> Will be an interesting case to keep the eye on.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> What is not in doubt is that the final ruling will set a very
>>>>> >>> serious precedent on how to deal with copyright issues when it
>>>>> >>> comes to the Online World.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Best Regards,
>>>>> >>> Davis M Onsakia
>>>>> >>> "One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose
>>>>> >>> sight of the shore for a very long time."
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> On 29 January 2015 at 13:46, Bernard Kioko via kictanet <
>>>>> >>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>> Reading from the article it says there is a list.
>>>>> >>>> On Jan 29, 2015 1:23 PM, "Dennis Kioko" <dmbuvi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>
>>>>> >>>>> Does Kenya have necessary laws, and do the copyright holders
>>>>> >>>>> have a list of infringing sites?
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 13:04 Bernard Kioko
>>>>> >>>>> <bkioko at bernsoft.com>
>>>>> >>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>> http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2014/11/uk-high-court-
>>>>> >>>>>> f orces-big-isps-block-56-new-internet-piracy-websites.html
>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 29, 2015 12:51 PM, "Dennis Kioko via kictanet" <
>>>>> >>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>> >>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>> Interesting case, though I wonder how ISPs allow people to
>>>>> >>>>>>> allow content illegally. Any one with some insight?
>>>>> >>>>>>> http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Music-co
>>>>> >>>>>>> p
>>>>> >>>>>>> yright-owners-illegal-downloads/-/539550/2605386/-/na4mbsz
>>>>> >>>>>>> /
>>>>> >>>>>>> -/index.html
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>> >>>>>>>
>>>>>
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>
> --
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