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</o:shapelayout></xml><![endif]--></head><body lang=EN-US link=blue vlink=purple><div class=WordSection1><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Victor, <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>I have quickly read through your research. Thanks for sharing. Very informative. I will seek you soon to see how the Intellectual Property Owners Association can help on some of the proposals in there.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'>Regards<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1F497D'><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'>From:</span></b><span style='font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"'> Victor Kapiyo [mailto:vkapiyo@gmail.com] <br><b>Sent:</b> Friday, January 30, 2015 5:02 PM<br><b>To:</b> Bernard Kioko; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [kictanet] Music Copyright Owners sue ISPs for allowing Kenyans to download content illegally<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>Jambo,<o:p></o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Very interesting discussions on the this subject. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>We had alluded to some of these challenges and made recommendations in a study on intermediary liability in Kenya. The report is available here: <a href="https://www.apc.org/en/system/files/Intermediary_Liability_in_Kenya.pdf">https://www.apc.org/en/system/files/Intermediary_Liability_in_Kenya.pdf</a> <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>I am glad to hear that these issues are finally coming to public debate and more so, before a court, since, and unfortunately so, the bodies responsible as stated above, haven't been able to propose amendments to the law that would address the concerns of right holders. I hope the court will clarify the position in Kenya regarding these contentious issues. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Lastly, I think it is also important to state that copyright should not be used to restrict the enjoyment of the copyrighted material or services (e.g. internet/websites) through which copyrighted material are shared. I like the example of the bhang in a car. The law should also be applied carefully and with sufficient precision to ensure that it only targets the infringers. There are notable and progressive/retrogressive decisions available from India, Germany, UK and the US which would be useful in helping our courts and govt. bodies think through the best options for the country. <o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Victor<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div><div><p class=MsoNormal><br clear=all><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#666666'>Victor Kapiyo</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class=MsoNormal><span style='font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif";color:#666666'><br>====================================================<br><i>“Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude” Zig Ziglar</i></span><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class=MsoNormal>On 30 January 2015 at 16:04, Bernard Kioko via kictanet <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><p class=MsoNormal>Thank you Barrack,<br><br>Of course I hope this discussion has ignited some people here to consider investing in music industry. If you are interested and want to know how (including how to clear licenses so you can use music legally in your business), do not hesitate to get in touch.<br><br>Regards<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: Barrack Otieno [mailto:<a href="mailto:otieno.barrack@gmail.com">otieno.barrack@gmail.com</a>]<br>Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 3:41 PM<br>To: Bernard Kioko<br>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>Subject: Re: [kictanet] Music Copyright Owners sue ISPs for allowing Kenyans to download content illegally<br><br>Thank you Bernard,<br><br>Your last email explains a lot thank you for taking the effort to develop a policy environments whose beneficiaries will be future generations.<br><br>Best Regards<br><br>On 1/30/15, Bernard Kioko <<a href="mailto:bkioko@bernsoft.com">bkioko@bernsoft.com</a>> wrote:<br>> Barrack,<br>><br>> I agree.<br>><br>> Part of figuring out, requires the steps that have been taken.<br>><br>> Regards<br>><br>> -----Original Message-----<br>> From: kictanet<br>> [mailto:<a href="mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bbkioko">kictanet-bounces+bkioko</a>=<a href="mailto:bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke">bernsoft.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>] On<br>> Behalf Of Barrack Otieno via kictanet<br>> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2015 1:04 PM<br>> To: <a href="mailto:bkioko@bernsoft.com">bkioko@bernsoft.com</a><br>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Music Copyright Owners sue ISPs for allowing<br>> Kenyans to download content illegally<br>><br>> That is a good analogy David. I think our musicians need to figure<br>> out how best to survive in the present ecosystem,at times legalese is<br>> not always the best route.<br>><br>> Best Regards<br>><br>> On 1/30/15, David Makali via kictanet <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>><br>> wrote:<br>>> Wrong analogy, James. You do not ask NTSA but you apprehend the<br>>> vehicle owner/driver/The transporter. Try and ferry your Bhang with<br>>> DHL or even Easy Coach if you know what I mean. You have to declare<br>>> your goods! Same to those who want to use the ISP. Vicarious liability...<br>>> David<br>>><br>>> This is official mail. If you doubt the content, call back on<br>>> +254722517540.<br>>><br>>>> On Jan 29, 2015, at 3:09 PM, James Mbugua via kictanet<br>>>> <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>>>><br>>>> Bernard,<br>>>><br>>>> I asked you, Can you sue NTSA for allowing Bhang to be transported<br>>>> on our roads?<br>>>><br>>>> ???<br>>>><br>>>> Exactly, how the hell are they supposed to know who is transporting<br>>>> bhang?<br>>>><br>>>> In your case, exactly how the hell are ISPs supposed to know you are<br>>>> downloading music illegally?<br>>>><br>>>> You guys are just looking for traction here....the people you should<br>>>> talk to are Kenic if they registered them and the owners of the<br>>>> servers where these sites are hosted. ISPs have nothing to do with this.<br>>>><br>>>> James<br>>>><br>>>>> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 3:04 PM, Bernard Kioko via kictanet<br>>>>> <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>>>>> At one point many ppl didn't believe mpesa would be possible.. It<br>>>>> took intervention from the late minister michuki....<br>>>>><br>>>>> We r country used to being first in many things<br>>>>><br>>>>>> On Jan 29, 2015 2:59 PM, "Mark Kipyegon via kictanet"<br>>>>>> <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>>>>>> From a technical standpoint how feasible is it to simply blacklist<br>>>>>> sites?<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Clone sites and proxies exist to circumvent these blocks.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> On 29/01/2015 14:48, Bernard Kioko via kictanet wrote:<br>>>>>> > James i posted a link where high court in UK ruled those same<br>>>>>> > sites be blocked by ISPs and that's happening.<br>>>>>> ><br>>>>>> > What's ur comment on that?<br>>>>>> > On Jan 29, 2015 2:43 PM, "James Mbugua via kictanet" <<br>>>>>> > <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>>>>>> ><br>>>>>> >> Listers,<br>>>>>> >><br>>>>>> >> Hmm...I don't know why I get the feeling this is a case of<br>>>>>> >> throwing mud at the wall to see if it will stick.<br>>>>>> >><br>>>>>> >> ISPs have never been held liable for downloading illegal<br>>>>>> >> content anywhere in the world. From the get go let us dispense<br>>>>>> >> with that. Neither will they be found so in this case.<br>>>>>> >><br>>>>>> >> I remember vividly when Napster came out and also when Kazaa<br>>>>>> >> followed....groups went after the sites not the ISPs. To this<br>>>>>> >> day, it is piracy sites that even the FBI goes for not the<br>>>>>> >> likes of Comcast or AT$T.<br>>>>>> >> Data privacy does not allow you to start checking what your<br>>>>>> >> customer is downloading or uploading....this is not China and<br>>>>>> >> getting into that territory is very dangerous for people's<br>>>>>> >> rights.<br>>>>>> >><br>>>>>> >> Let these guys do the hard work and go for the piracy sites or<br>>>>>> >> sue NTSA for allowing bhang to be transported on our roads.<br>>>>>> >><br>>>>>> >> lol<br>>>>>> >><br>>>>>> >> Regards,<br>>>>>> >><br>>>>>> >> James<br>>>>>> >><br>>>>>> >><br>>>>>> >><br>>>>>> >> On Thu, Jan 29, 2015 at 2:30 PM, Davis Onsakia via kictanet <<br>>>>>> >> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>>>>>> >><br>>>>>> >>> Will be an interesting case to keep the eye on.<br>>>>>> >>><br>>>>>> >>> What is not in doubt is that the final ruling will set a very<br>>>>>> >>> serious precedent on how to deal with copyright issues when it<br>>>>>> >>> comes to the Online World.<br>>>>>> >>><br>>>>>> >>> Best Regards,<br>>>>>> >>> Davis M Onsakia<br>>>>>> >>> "One doesn't discover new lands without consenting to lose<br>>>>>> >>> sight of the shore for a very long time."<br>>>>>> >>><br>>>>>> >>> On 29 January 2015 at 13:46, Bernard Kioko via kictanet <<br>>>>>> >>> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>>>>>> >>><br>>>>>> >>>> Reading from the article it says there is a list.<br>>>>>> >>>> On Jan 29, 2015 1:23 PM, "Dennis Kioko" <<a href="mailto:dmbuvi@gmail.com">dmbuvi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>>>>>> >>>><br>>>>>> >>>>> Does Kenya have necessary laws, and do the copyright holders<br>>>>>> >>>>> have a list of infringing sites?<br>>>>>> >>>>><br>>>>>> >>>>> On Thu, 29 Jan 2015 13:04 Bernard Kioko<br>>>>>> >>>>> <<a href="mailto:bkioko@bernsoft.com">bkioko@bernsoft.com</a>><br>>>>>> >>>>> wrote:<br>>>>>> >>>>><br>>>>>> >>>>>><br>>>>>> >>>>>> <a href="http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2014/11/uk-high-court-" target="_blank">http://www.ispreview.co.uk/index.php/2014/11/uk-high-court-</a><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> >>>>>> f orces-big-isps-block-56-new-internet-piracy-websites.html<o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 29, 2015 12:51 PM, "Dennis Kioko via kictanet" <<br>>>>>> >>>>>> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>>>>>> >>>>>><br>>>>>> >>>>>>> Interesting case, though I wonder how ISPs allow people to<br>>>>>> >>>>>>> allow content illegally. Any one with some insight?<br>>>>>> >>>>>>> <a href="http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Music-co" target="_blank">http://www.businessdailyafrica.com/Corporate-News/Music-co</a><br>>>>>> >>>>>>> p<br>>>>>> >>>>>>> yright-owners-illegal-downloads/-/539550/2605386/-/na4mbsz<br>>>>>> >>>>>>> /<br>>>>>> >>>>>>> -/index.html<br>>>>>> >>>>>>><br>>>>>> >>>>>>><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>>>> kictanet mailing list<br>>>>>> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at<br>>>>>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bkioko%40ber" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bkioko%40ber</a><br>>>>>> n<br>>>>>> <a href="http://soft.com" target="_blank">soft.com</a><br>>>>>><br>>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder<br>>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in<br>>>>>> ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst<br>>>>>> for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT<br>>>>>> enabled growth and development.<br>>>>>><br>>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable<br>>>>>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's<br>>>>>> times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or<br>>>>>> personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your<br>>>>>> wares or<br>> qualifications.<br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain information that is<br>>>>> confidential, legally privileged and protected by law and is<br>>>>> intended for the sole use of the named recipient(s). Any<br>>>>> unauthorized review, use, or disclosure or distribution is<br>>>>> prohibited. Any liability (in negligence or<br>>>>> otherwise) arising from any third party acting, or refraining from<br>>>>> acting on any information contained in this email is hereby<br>>>>> excluded. 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For further information<br>>>>> about us,<br>> please contact us at the address indicated below.<br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>> Bernsoft Interactive Limited - P O Box 15177-00100 Nairobi - Tel:<br>>>>> +254<br>>>>> 722 929192 Email: <a href="mailto:admin@bernsoft.com">admin@bernsoft.com</a> Web: <a href="http://www.bernsoft.com" target="_blank">www.bernsoft.com</a><br>>>>><br>>>>><br>>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>>> kictanet mailing list<br>>>>> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>>>>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>>>>><br>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at<br>>>>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gm" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jgmbugua%40gm</a><br>>>>> a<br>>>>> <a href="http://il.com" target="_blank">il.com</a><br>>>>><br>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder<br>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT<br>>>>> policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for<br>>>>> reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT<br>>>>> enabled growth and development.<br>>>>><br>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable<br>>>>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's<br>>>>> times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or<br>>>>> personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares<br>>>>> or<br>> qualifications.<br>>>><br>>>> _______________________________________________<br>>>> kictanet mailing list<br>>>> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>>>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>>>><br>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at<br>>>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmakali%40yaho" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/dmakali%40yaho</a><br>>>> o<br>>>> .com<br>>>><br>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder<br>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT<br>>>> policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for<br>>>> reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT<br>>>> enabled growth and development.<br>>>><br>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable<br>>>> behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's<br>>>> times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or<br>>>> personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares<br>>>> or qualifications.<br>>><br>><br>><br>> --<br>> Barrack O. Otieno<br>> +254721325277<br>> +254-20-2498789<br>> Skype: barrack.otieno<br>> <a href="http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/" target="_blank">http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/</a><br>><br>> _______________________________________________<br>> kictanet mailing list<br>> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>><br>> Unsubscribe or change your options at<br>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bkioko%40bernsof" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/bkioko%40bernsof</a><br>> <a href="http://t.com" target="_blank">t.com</a><br>><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><div><div><p class=MsoNormal>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder<br>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT<br>> policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for<br>> reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled<br>> growth and development.<br>><br>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors<br>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and<br>> bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize,<br>> respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>><br>><br>> --<br>><br>> * ------------------------------ *<br>><br>><br>><br>> This e-mail and any attachments may contain information that is<br>> confidential, legally privileged and protected by law and is intended<br>> for the sole use of the named recipient(s). Any unauthorized review,<br>> use, or disclosure or distribution is prohibited. Any liability (in<br>> negligence or<br>> otherwise) arising from any third party acting, or refraining from<br>> acting on any information contained in this email is hereby excluded.<br>> If you are not the intended recipient, please delete the contents and<br>> notify the sender immediately; do not disclose the contents to any<br>> other person, use it for any purpose or store or copy the information<br>> in any medium. Whilst our e-mails are checked for viruses, we cannot<br>> guarantee that this message or any attachment is virus free, does not<br>> contain malicious code or is incompatible with your electronic system<br>> and the Company does not accept liability in respect of viruses,<br>> malicious code or any related problems that you might experience. For<br>> further information about us, please contact<br>><br>> us at the address indicated below.<br>><br>><br>> Bernsoft Interactive Limited - P O Box 15177-00100 Nairobi - Tel: +254<br>> 722<br>> 929192 Email: <a href="mailto:admin@bernsoft.com">admin@bernsoft.com</a> Web: <a href="http://www.bernsoft.com" target="_blank">www.bernsoft.com</a><br>><br><br><br>--<br>Barrack O. Otieno<br>+254721325277<br>+254-20-2498789<br>Skype: barrack.otieno<br><a href="http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/" target="_blank">http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/</a><br><br><br>--<br><br>* ------------------------------ *<br><br><br><br>This e-mail and any attachments may contain information that is<br>confidential, legally privileged and protected by law and is intended for<br>the sole use of the named recipient(s). Any unauthorized review, use, or<br>disclosure or distribution is prohibited. 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For further information about us, please contact<br>us at the address indicated below.<br><br><br>Bernsoft Interactive Limited - P O Box 15177-00100 Nairobi - Tel: +254 722<br>929192 Email: <a href="mailto:admin@bernsoft.com">admin@bernsoft.com</a> Web: <a href="http://www.bernsoft.com" target="_blank">www.bernsoft.com</a><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>kictanet mailing list<br><a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br><a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br><br>Unsubscribe or change your options at <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/vkapiyo%40gmail.com" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/vkapiyo%40gmail.com</a><br><br>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br><br>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div><p class=MsoNormal><o:p> </o:p></p></div></div></body></html>
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</span></strong></div><p style="line-height:115%"><img src="http://bernsoft.com/img/logo.jpg"><span style="background-color:white;font-family:Georgia,serif;font-size:9pt;line-height:115%"><br><br>This e-mail and
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accept liability in respect of viruses, malicious code or any related problems
that you might experience. For further information about us, please contact us
at the address indicated below.</span></p><p style="line-height:115%"><span style="font-size:9pt;line-height:115%;font-family:Georgia,serif;background-color:white;background-repeat:initial initial"><br>Bernsoft Interactive Limited - P O Box 15177-00100 Nairobi - Tel: +254 722 929192 Email: <a href="mailto:admin@bernsoft.com" target="_blank">admin@bernsoft.com</a> Web: <a href="http://www.bernsoft.com" target="_blank">www.bernsoft.com</a> </span></p>