[kictanet] [Skunkworks] Bitcoin Meetup: Topic Buy/Trade/Store BTC at iHub Monday 1st December 5:30 PM

Tue Dec 9 09:05:53 EAT 2014

Hello John,

I did not make it for the meetup.

I am interested in knowing what was held as the local position on
cryptocurrency and where it is headed.

Regards,

On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 3:32 PM, John Gitau via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> Then common man should keep away from bit coin.  :-)
> On 1 Dec 2014 00:52, "Dennis Kioko via kictanet" <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>> The major challenge with BitCoin is the complexity for the common man -
>> it's easy to lose your BitCoins, and this scares away most people.
>>
>> On Mon Dec 01 2014 at 09:24:50 John Karanja via skunkworks <
>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
>>
>>> Great analysis Phares,
>>>
>>> Just to add Bitcoin is Pseudo-anonymous you can track every transaction
>>> to the wallet and possibly every device meaning you can a track a sender
>>> and receiver if you are networking expert..
>>>
>>> Roy they are over 500 major digital currencies and there will be
>>> millions in the future many of which will fail, some which will add value
>>> to their users and others which will be scams.
>>>
>>> Bonga points is a virtual currency/token that offers discount value on
>>> purchases at Safaricom shops and not anywhere else and therefore has
>>> perceived value amongst Saf users...
>>>
>>> Bitcoin currently has a market value of $5 Billion because of the "work"
>>> that has been put into the network which creates perceived value just like
>>> Bonga points.
>>>
>>> Like Phares says just do some research on what actually backs USD you
>>> will be surprised.
>>>
>>> Meetup is  at 5:30PM today at iHub...
>>>
>>> John
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Paul via skunkworks <
>>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>>> What stops us from trusting bitpesa? Or procoins (if I came up with
>>>> mine too)....
>>>>
>>>> If you get my drift, anyone can come up with a digital currency. Which
>>>> one will you trust?
>>>>
>>>> All these are ponzi schemes designed to benefit a few...
>>>>
>>>> Though I like John's analogy to gambling 😊 yeah if you are into it,
>>>> why not try and get rich!
>>>>
>>>> Don't say I didn't warn you.
>>>>
>>>> pro
>>>> ------------------------------
>>>> From: Phares Kariuki <pkariuki at gmail.com>
>>>> Sent: ‎26/‎11/‎2014 15:47
>>>> To: Paul Roy <roykoikai at gmail.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>> Cc: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke>; Patrick
>>>> Kariuki <patrick.kariuki at gmail.com>
>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Bitcoin Meetup: Topic
>>>> Buy/Trade/Store BTC at iHub Monday 1st December 5:30 PM
>>>>
>>>> 1) Currency no longer has a backing. The US stopped using the gold
>>>> standard in 1970 (Ironically, the US Dollar became the global trading
>>>> standard simply because they had a gold standard).
>>>> 2) Currency is based purely on trust, not inherent value e.g. during
>>>> hyperinflation in Germany in the 20's, the currency was worth less than
>>>> firewood, so people burnt money because money because it was cheaper to
>>>> burn money than firewood.
>>>> 3) The trust in the value of money is why you accept a 1,000 shilling
>>>> note as being worth something. It's trust. Yes, the state issues it, but
>>>> that is not the basis of trust in currency. It's the assumption that
>>>> society as a whole shares your view on the value of the money... e.g. in
>>>> Zimbabwe, the state issued the currency, but the people did not have faith
>>>> in the currency. So the notion of value of a currency being predicated on
>>>> state issuance is moot.
>>>> 4) Bitcoin actually solves interesting problems online, the biggest
>>>> being anonymity. e.g. If you spend 1,000 KES at Java, that money can't be
>>>> traced to you. The money is accepted by the merchant. Period. There's no
>>>> tracing it back to you. A 50 KES note spent in a matatu, buying drugs etc
>>>> can't be traced back to you (unless the state marks bills). Money is
>>>> trusted. We've been unable to replicate that online. So for now, we use
>>>> cards. Paypal etc. We have intermediaries who guarantee value. Who
>>>> guarantee that the transaction would be settled. This has one problem,
>>>> margins. MasterCard, Visa, Paypal etc all have their pound of flesh.
>>>> Additionally, the lack of anonymity means that all transactions can be
>>>> traced back to both the merchant and customer and the merchants can
>>>> determine what type of goods can be transacted. Whilst this might look like
>>>> a good idea, the problem is that the state can use this to get rid of
>>>> unwanted actors in the economy. What Bitcoin represents is free trade
>>>> online. You can buy whatever you want, sell whatever you want online e.g.
>>>> you can create a secure email service to insulate yourself from the state
>>>> e.g. Snowden.
>>>> 5) Money transfer - the US Dollar means that you have to be in good
>>>> standing with the west in order to conduct international transactions. This
>>>> need not be the case with bitcoin. You no longer need to use NY clearing
>>>> houses to transfer international currency. You can use bitcoin (e.g. A
>>>> citizen of Sudan, who wants to launch an ecommerce website can start
>>>> accepting bitcoin, which is global and bypass the US clearing houses).
>>>> Freedom to trade. US foreign policy should not be the baseline for
>>>> international trade.
>>>>
>>>> The one caveat I have with bitcoin is the fact that it has deflationary
>>>> tendencies, not inflationary, because it has a limited supply. The
>>>> inflationary tendencies of legal currency mean that the incentive to the
>>>> holder is to spend/invest rather than hoard the currency, which increases
>>>> the velocity of the cash. It's used to buy more and more goods/services.
>>>> Bitcoin, due to its deflationary tendency, incentivises the holder to keep,
>>>> rather than spend the cash. e.g. At some point, in 2011, bitcoin was worth
>>>> roughly 50 USD, it's worth 300 USD today, so if you spent 1 bitcoin buying
>>>> say an iPod Shuffle, that same amount of money, had you waited, would have
>>>> bought you 6 iPods shuffles, so you would have a feeling of loss. That's
>>>> the biggest worry. However, the fact that more and more people are trading
>>>> with it might mean that folks actually spend, rather than hoard the money.
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Paul Roy via kictanet <
>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Well, am against this notion of a few people making "something out of
>>>>> nothing" and majority "making nothing out of something". I have no issue
>>>>> with the technology side. True using crypto technology and blockchain you
>>>>> can trace the history etc, however this does  not explain some mysteries.
>>>>> First a few points to ponder
>>>>>
>>>>> 1. Who invented bitcoin? Why is s/he in hiding? If i were the inventor
>>>>> i would proudly be associated with BTC in this case the guy went to
>>>>> hiding...did he know something or is he/she remaining anonymous avoiding
>>>>> legal action from eminent collapse of bitcoin with a few billionaires and
>>>>> majority impoverished?
>>>>>
>>>>> 2. Ok BTC is popular and they claim over 6 million coins
>>>>> blah...blah... have been mined so far. How did this happen? Who are these
>>>>> billionaires who spent enormous computing resources to mine bitcoin while
>>>>> the rest of the world was asleep?
>>>>>
>>>>> 3. Paypal has a disclaimer on bitcoin trade...do they know something?
>>>>> Many governments do not recognize bitcoin and others have even burned it as
>>>>> a legal tender
>>>>>
>>>>> 4. What's backing this currency? Air?
>>>>>
>>>>> Anyway the truth is that some genius came up with some incredible
>>>>> algorithm based on cryptography, released the code, used pseudo-names to
>>>>> hide s/he identity, got his/her cronies and fictitious accounts with
>>>>> millions of these so called coins, sat back and enjoying billions coming
>>>>> his/her way.
>>>>>
>>>>> What a genius!
>>>>>
>>>>> pro
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Anthony Lenya <tlensya at gmail.com>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Bernie Madoff anyone? ?
>>>>>> On 26 Nov 2014 10:54, "Patrick Kariuki via skunkworks" <
>>>>>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Any basis for your advice?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The US Marshal service is auctioning Bitcoins - If the Bitcoin was
>>>>>>> part of some ponzi scheme wouldn't they destroy them instead?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/dpr-bitcoins/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Paul Roy via skunkworks <
>>>>>>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Good to see you trying to marshal support for digital currency.
>>>>>>>> This is simply pyramid scheme that will make so many people lose their hard
>>>>>>>> earned cash, moreso fraudsters and hackers are having a playing field
>>>>>>>> ripping off many innocent investors...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> My advice, keep off bitcoin!
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> pro
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 9:33 AM, John Karanja via skunkworks <
>>>>>>>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Hi Listers,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin Meetup sign up here:
>>>>>>>>> <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1446634865>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.meetup.com/Kenya-Bitcoin/events/218657905/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin which is like *global M-Pesa is* the World’s most
>>>>>>>>> celebrated digital and crypto-currency. The past 5 years has seen this new
>>>>>>>>> technology experience gradual and steady growth in use around the World.
>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin today has over 10 million users globally and is growing fast!
>>>>>>>>> Together with the African Digital Currency Association(ADCA)  we
>>>>>>>>> are hosting a Bitcoin Meetup on Monday 1st December 2014 5:30PM at
>>>>>>>>> the iHub, 4th Floor, Bishop Magua Centre, Ngong Road, Directly opposite
>>>>>>>>> Uchumi, Ngong Road. We look forward to demonstrating how you can Buy, Trade
>>>>>>>>> and Store your Bitcoin in this session.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Come prepared with your Bitcoin Wallets which you can download
>>>>>>>>> from Google Play and Apple Store as Whive <http://Whive.org> will
>>>>>>>>> be sponsoring free BTC Giveways.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> If you have no idea how to set up the wallet buzz me off-list and
>>>>>>>>> I will help.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin Meetup sign up here:
>>>>>>>>> <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1446634865>
>>>>>>>>> http://www.meetup.com/Kenya-Bitcoin/events/218657905/
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> As background info read about E.A legal status and regulation of
>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin on the iHub community blog here. Post by ADCA lead Michael Kimani.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> http://community.ihub.co.ke/blogs/21585/digital-currency-regulation-in-east-africa
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> See you there,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> John Karanja
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>> "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of
>>>>>>>> luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Roy.
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of
>>>>> luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
>>>>>
>>>>> Roy.
>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Warm Regards,
>>>>
>>>> Phares Kariuki
>>>>
>>>> *E*: pkariuki at gmail.com | *Twitter*: kaboro | *B*: http://www.angani.co |
>>>> Angani Limited
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
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>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
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>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
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> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
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*William Warero*
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