[kictanet] [Skunkworks] Bitcoin Meetup: Topic Buy/Trade/Store BTC at iHub Monday 1st December 5:30 PM
John Gitau
jgitau at gmail.com
Mon Dec 1 15:32:15 EAT 2014
Then common man should keep away from bit coin. :-)
On 1 Dec 2014 00:52, "Dennis Kioko via kictanet" <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> The major challenge with BitCoin is the complexity for the common man -
> it's easy to lose your BitCoins, and this scares away most people.
>
> On Mon Dec 01 2014 at 09:24:50 John Karanja via skunkworks <
> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
>
>> Great analysis Phares,
>>
>> Just to add Bitcoin is Pseudo-anonymous you can track every transaction
>> to the wallet and possibly every device meaning you can a track a sender
>> and receiver if you are networking expert..
>>
>> Roy they are over 500 major digital currencies and there will be millions
>> in the future many of which will fail, some which will add value to their
>> users and others which will be scams.
>>
>> Bonga points is a virtual currency/token that offers discount value on
>> purchases at Safaricom shops and not anywhere else and therefore has
>> perceived value amongst Saf users...
>>
>> Bitcoin currently has a market value of $5 Billion because of the "work"
>> that has been put into the network which creates perceived value just like
>> Bonga points.
>>
>> Like Phares says just do some research on what actually backs USD you
>> will be surprised.
>>
>> Meetup is at 5:30PM today at iHub...
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Paul via skunkworks <
>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
>>
>>> What stops us from trusting bitpesa? Or procoins (if I came up with mine
>>> too)....
>>>
>>> If you get my drift, anyone can come up with a digital currency. Which
>>> one will you trust?
>>>
>>> All these are ponzi schemes designed to benefit a few...
>>>
>>> Though I like John's analogy to gambling 😊 yeah if you are into it, why
>>> not try and get rich!
>>>
>>> Don't say I didn't warn you.
>>>
>>> pro
>>> ------------------------------
>>> From: Phares Kariuki <pkariuki at gmail.com>
>>> Sent: 26/11/2014 15:47
>>> To: Paul Roy <roykoikai at gmail.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Cc: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke>; Patrick Kariuki
>>> <patrick.kariuki at gmail.com>
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Bitcoin Meetup: Topic
>>> Buy/Trade/Store BTC at iHub Monday 1st December 5:30 PM
>>>
>>> 1) Currency no longer has a backing. The US stopped using the gold
>>> standard in 1970 (Ironically, the US Dollar became the global trading
>>> standard simply because they had a gold standard).
>>> 2) Currency is based purely on trust, not inherent value e.g. during
>>> hyperinflation in Germany in the 20's, the currency was worth less than
>>> firewood, so people burnt money because money because it was cheaper to
>>> burn money than firewood.
>>> 3) The trust in the value of money is why you accept a 1,000 shilling
>>> note as being worth something. It's trust. Yes, the state issues it, but
>>> that is not the basis of trust in currency. It's the assumption that
>>> society as a whole shares your view on the value of the money... e.g. in
>>> Zimbabwe, the state issued the currency, but the people did not have faith
>>> in the currency. So the notion of value of a currency being predicated on
>>> state issuance is moot.
>>> 4) Bitcoin actually solves interesting problems online, the biggest
>>> being anonymity. e.g. If you spend 1,000 KES at Java, that money can't be
>>> traced to you. The money is accepted by the merchant. Period. There's no
>>> tracing it back to you. A 50 KES note spent in a matatu, buying drugs etc
>>> can't be traced back to you (unless the state marks bills). Money is
>>> trusted. We've been unable to replicate that online. So for now, we use
>>> cards. Paypal etc. We have intermediaries who guarantee value. Who
>>> guarantee that the transaction would be settled. This has one problem,
>>> margins. MasterCard, Visa, Paypal etc all have their pound of flesh.
>>> Additionally, the lack of anonymity means that all transactions can be
>>> traced back to both the merchant and customer and the merchants can
>>> determine what type of goods can be transacted. Whilst this might look like
>>> a good idea, the problem is that the state can use this to get rid of
>>> unwanted actors in the economy. What Bitcoin represents is free trade
>>> online. You can buy whatever you want, sell whatever you want online e.g.
>>> you can create a secure email service to insulate yourself from the state
>>> e.g. Snowden.
>>> 5) Money transfer - the US Dollar means that you have to be in good
>>> standing with the west in order to conduct international transactions. This
>>> need not be the case with bitcoin. You no longer need to use NY clearing
>>> houses to transfer international currency. You can use bitcoin (e.g. A
>>> citizen of Sudan, who wants to launch an ecommerce website can start
>>> accepting bitcoin, which is global and bypass the US clearing houses).
>>> Freedom to trade. US foreign policy should not be the baseline for
>>> international trade.
>>>
>>> The one caveat I have with bitcoin is the fact that it has deflationary
>>> tendencies, not inflationary, because it has a limited supply. The
>>> inflationary tendencies of legal currency mean that the incentive to the
>>> holder is to spend/invest rather than hoard the currency, which increases
>>> the velocity of the cash. It's used to buy more and more goods/services.
>>> Bitcoin, due to its deflationary tendency, incentivises the holder to keep,
>>> rather than spend the cash. e.g. At some point, in 2011, bitcoin was worth
>>> roughly 50 USD, it's worth 300 USD today, so if you spent 1 bitcoin buying
>>> say an iPod Shuffle, that same amount of money, had you waited, would have
>>> bought you 6 iPods shuffles, so you would have a feeling of loss. That's
>>> the biggest worry. However, the fact that more and more people are trading
>>> with it might mean that folks actually spend, rather than hoard the money.
>>>
>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Paul Roy via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well, am against this notion of a few people making "something out of
>>>> nothing" and majority "making nothing out of something". I have no issue
>>>> with the technology side. True using crypto technology and blockchain you
>>>> can trace the history etc, however this does not explain some mysteries.
>>>> First a few points to ponder
>>>>
>>>> 1. Who invented bitcoin? Why is s/he in hiding? If i were the inventor
>>>> i would proudly be associated with BTC in this case the guy went to
>>>> hiding...did he know something or is he/she remaining anonymous avoiding
>>>> legal action from eminent collapse of bitcoin with a few billionaires and
>>>> majority impoverished?
>>>>
>>>> 2. Ok BTC is popular and they claim over 6 million coins blah...blah...
>>>> have been mined so far. How did this happen? Who are these billionaires who
>>>> spent enormous computing resources to mine bitcoin while the rest of the
>>>> world was asleep?
>>>>
>>>> 3. Paypal has a disclaimer on bitcoin trade...do they know something?
>>>> Many governments do not recognize bitcoin and others have even burned it as
>>>> a legal tender
>>>>
>>>> 4. What's backing this currency? Air?
>>>>
>>>> Anyway the truth is that some genius came up with some incredible
>>>> algorithm based on cryptography, released the code, used pseudo-names to
>>>> hide s/he identity, got his/her cronies and fictitious accounts with
>>>> millions of these so called coins, sat back and enjoying billions coming
>>>> his/her way.
>>>>
>>>> What a genius!
>>>>
>>>> pro
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Anthony Lenya <tlensya at gmail.com>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Bernie Madoff anyone? ?
>>>>> On 26 Nov 2014 10:54, "Patrick Kariuki via skunkworks" <
>>>>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Any basis for your advice?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The US Marshal service is auctioning Bitcoins - If the Bitcoin was
>>>>>> part of some ponzi scheme wouldn't they destroy them instead?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/dpr-bitcoins/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Paul Roy via skunkworks <
>>>>>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Good to see you trying to marshal support for digital currency. This
>>>>>>> is simply pyramid scheme that will make so many people lose their hard
>>>>>>> earned cash, moreso fraudsters and hackers are having a playing field
>>>>>>> ripping off many innocent investors...
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> My advice, keep off bitcoin!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> pro
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 9:33 AM, John Karanja via skunkworks <
>>>>>>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Hi Listers,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bitcoin Meetup sign up here:
>>>>>>>> <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1446634865>
>>>>>>>> http://www.meetup.com/Kenya-Bitcoin/events/218657905/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bitcoin which is like *global M-Pesa is* the World’s most
>>>>>>>> celebrated digital and crypto-currency. The past 5 years has seen this new
>>>>>>>> technology experience gradual and steady growth in use around the World.
>>>>>>>> Bitcoin today has over 10 million users globally and is growing fast!
>>>>>>>> Together with the African Digital Currency Association(ADCA) we
>>>>>>>> are hosting a Bitcoin Meetup on Monday 1st December 2014 5:30PM at
>>>>>>>> the iHub, 4th Floor, Bishop Magua Centre, Ngong Road, Directly opposite
>>>>>>>> Uchumi, Ngong Road. We look forward to demonstrating how you can Buy, Trade
>>>>>>>> and Store your Bitcoin in this session.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Come prepared with your Bitcoin Wallets which you can download from
>>>>>>>> Google Play and Apple Store as Whive <http://Whive.org> will be
>>>>>>>> sponsoring free BTC Giveways.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If you have no idea how to set up the wallet buzz me off-list and I
>>>>>>>> will help.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bitcoin Meetup sign up here:
>>>>>>>> <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1446634865>
>>>>>>>> http://www.meetup.com/Kenya-Bitcoin/events/218657905/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> As background info read about E.A legal status and regulation of
>>>>>>>> Bitcoin on the iHub community blog here. Post by ADCA lead Michael Kimani.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://community.ihub.co.ke/blogs/21585/digital-currency-regulation-in-east-africa
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> See you there,
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> John Karanja
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of
>>>>>>> luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Roy.
>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of
>>>> luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
>>>>
>>>> Roy.
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Warm Regards,
>>>
>>> Phares Kariuki
>>>
>>> *E*: pkariuki at gmail.com | *Twitter*: kaboro | *B*: http://www.angani.co |
>>> Angani Limited
>>>
>>>
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> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
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