[kictanet] [Skunkworks] Bitcoin Meetup: Topic Buy/Trade/Store BTC at iHub Monday 1st December 5:30 PM

Thu Dec 11 10:14:52 EAT 2014

Microsoft now accepts bitcoin....

https://commerce.microsoft.com/PaymentHub/Help/Right?helppagename=CSV_BitcoinHowTo.htm

On Tue, Dec 9, 2014 at 9:05 AM, William Warero via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> Hello John,
>
> I did not make it for the meetup.
>
> I am interested in knowing what was held as the local position on
> cryptocurrency and where it is headed.
>
> Regards,
>
> On Mon, Dec 1, 2014 at 3:32 PM, John Gitau via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>> Then common man should keep away from bit coin.  :-)
>> On 1 Dec 2014 00:52, "Dennis Kioko via kictanet" <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>>> The major challenge with BitCoin is the complexity for the common man -
>>> it's easy to lose your BitCoins, and this scares away most people.
>>>
>>> On Mon Dec 01 2014 at 09:24:50 John Karanja via skunkworks <
>>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Great analysis Phares,
>>>>
>>>> Just to add Bitcoin is Pseudo-anonymous you can track every transaction
>>>> to the wallet and possibly every device meaning you can a track a sender
>>>> and receiver if you are networking expert..
>>>>
>>>> Roy they are over 500 major digital currencies and there will be
>>>> millions in the future many of which will fail, some which will add value
>>>> to their users and others which will be scams.
>>>>
>>>> Bonga points is a virtual currency/token that offers discount value on
>>>> purchases at Safaricom shops and not anywhere else and therefore has
>>>> perceived value amongst Saf users...
>>>>
>>>> Bitcoin currently has a market value of $5 Billion because of the
>>>> "work" that has been put into the network which creates perceived value
>>>> just like Bonga points.
>>>>
>>>> Like Phares says just do some research on what actually backs USD you
>>>> will be surprised.
>>>>
>>>> Meetup is  at 5:30PM today at iHub...
>>>>
>>>> John
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 4:22 PM, Paul via skunkworks <
>>>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> What stops us from trusting bitpesa? Or procoins (if I came up with
>>>>> mine too)....
>>>>>
>>>>> If you get my drift, anyone can come up with a digital currency. Which
>>>>> one will you trust?
>>>>>
>>>>> All these are ponzi schemes designed to benefit a few...
>>>>>
>>>>> Though I like John's analogy to gambling 😊 yeah if you are into it,
>>>>> why not try and get rich!
>>>>>
>>>>> Don't say I didn't warn you.
>>>>>
>>>>> pro
>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>> From: Phares Kariuki <pkariuki at gmail.com>
>>>>> Sent: ‎26/‎11/‎2014 15:47
>>>>> To: Paul Roy <roykoikai at gmail.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>>> Cc: Skunkworks Mailing List <skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke>; Patrick
>>>>> Kariuki <patrick.kariuki at gmail.com>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Bitcoin Meetup: Topic
>>>>> Buy/Trade/Store BTC at iHub Monday 1st December 5:30 PM
>>>>>
>>>>> 1) Currency no longer has a backing. The US stopped using the gold
>>>>> standard in 1970 (Ironically, the US Dollar became the global trading
>>>>> standard simply because they had a gold standard).
>>>>> 2) Currency is based purely on trust, not inherent value e.g. during
>>>>> hyperinflation in Germany in the 20's, the currency was worth less than
>>>>> firewood, so people burnt money because money because it was cheaper to
>>>>> burn money than firewood.
>>>>> 3) The trust in the value of money is why you accept a 1,000 shilling
>>>>> note as being worth something. It's trust. Yes, the state issues it, but
>>>>> that is not the basis of trust in currency. It's the assumption that
>>>>> society as a whole shares your view on the value of the money... e.g. in
>>>>> Zimbabwe, the state issued the currency, but the people did not have faith
>>>>> in the currency. So the notion of value of a currency being predicated on
>>>>> state issuance is moot.
>>>>> 4) Bitcoin actually solves interesting problems online, the biggest
>>>>> being anonymity. e.g. If you spend 1,000 KES at Java, that money can't be
>>>>> traced to you. The money is accepted by the merchant. Period. There's no
>>>>> tracing it back to you. A 50 KES note spent in a matatu, buying drugs etc
>>>>> can't be traced back to you (unless the state marks bills). Money is
>>>>> trusted. We've been unable to replicate that online. So for now, we use
>>>>> cards. Paypal etc. We have intermediaries who guarantee value. Who
>>>>> guarantee that the transaction would be settled. This has one problem,
>>>>> margins. MasterCard, Visa, Paypal etc all have their pound of flesh.
>>>>> Additionally, the lack of anonymity means that all transactions can be
>>>>> traced back to both the merchant and customer and the merchants can
>>>>> determine what type of goods can be transacted. Whilst this might look like
>>>>> a good idea, the problem is that the state can use this to get rid of
>>>>> unwanted actors in the economy. What Bitcoin represents is free trade
>>>>> online. You can buy whatever you want, sell whatever you want online e.g.
>>>>> you can create a secure email service to insulate yourself from the state
>>>>> e.g. Snowden.
>>>>> 5) Money transfer - the US Dollar means that you have to be in good
>>>>> standing with the west in order to conduct international transactions. This
>>>>> need not be the case with bitcoin. You no longer need to use NY clearing
>>>>> houses to transfer international currency. You can use bitcoin (e.g. A
>>>>> citizen of Sudan, who wants to launch an ecommerce website can start
>>>>> accepting bitcoin, which is global and bypass the US clearing houses).
>>>>> Freedom to trade. US foreign policy should not be the baseline for
>>>>> international trade.
>>>>>
>>>>> The one caveat I have with bitcoin is the fact that it has
>>>>> deflationary tendencies, not inflationary, because it has a limited supply.
>>>>> The inflationary tendencies of legal currency mean that the incentive to
>>>>> the holder is to spend/invest rather than hoard the currency, which
>>>>> increases the velocity of the cash. It's used to buy more and more
>>>>> goods/services. Bitcoin, due to its deflationary tendency, incentivises the
>>>>> holder to keep, rather than spend the cash. e.g. At some point, in 2011,
>>>>> bitcoin was worth roughly 50 USD, it's worth 300 USD today, so if you spent
>>>>> 1 bitcoin buying say an iPod Shuffle, that same amount of money, had you
>>>>> waited, would have bought you 6 iPods shuffles, so you would have a feeling
>>>>> of loss. That's the biggest worry. However, the fact that more and more
>>>>> people are trading with it might mean that folks actually spend, rather
>>>>> than hoard the money.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 2:07 PM, Paul Roy via kictanet <
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Well, am against this notion of a few people making "something out of
>>>>>> nothing" and majority "making nothing out of something". I have no issue
>>>>>> with the technology side. True using crypto technology and blockchain you
>>>>>> can trace the history etc, however this does  not explain some mysteries.
>>>>>> First a few points to ponder
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 1. Who invented bitcoin? Why is s/he in hiding? If i were the
>>>>>> inventor i would proudly be associated with BTC in this case the guy went
>>>>>> to hiding...did he know something or is he/she remaining anonymous avoiding
>>>>>> legal action from eminent collapse of bitcoin with a few billionaires and
>>>>>> majority impoverished?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 2. Ok BTC is popular and they claim over 6 million coins
>>>>>> blah...blah... have been mined so far. How did this happen? Who are these
>>>>>> billionaires who spent enormous computing resources to mine bitcoin while
>>>>>> the rest of the world was asleep?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 3. Paypal has a disclaimer on bitcoin trade...do they know something?
>>>>>> Many governments do not recognize bitcoin and others have even burned it as
>>>>>> a legal tender
>>>>>>
>>>>>> 4. What's backing this currency? Air?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Anyway the truth is that some genius came up with some incredible
>>>>>> algorithm based on cryptography, released the code, used pseudo-names to
>>>>>> hide s/he identity, got his/her cronies and fictitious accounts with
>>>>>> millions of these so called coins, sat back and enjoying billions coming
>>>>>> his/her way.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> What a genius!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> pro
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 10:57 AM, Anthony Lenya <tlensya at gmail.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bernie Madoff anyone? ?
>>>>>>> On 26 Nov 2014 10:54, "Patrick Kariuki via skunkworks" <
>>>>>>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Any basis for your advice?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The US Marshal service is auctioning Bitcoins - If the Bitcoin was
>>>>>>>> part of some ponzi scheme wouldn't they destroy them instead?
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> http://www.usmarshals.gov/assets/2014/dpr-bitcoins/
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Paul Roy via skunkworks <
>>>>>>>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> John,
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Good to see you trying to marshal support for digital currency.
>>>>>>>>> This is simply pyramid scheme that will make so many people lose their hard
>>>>>>>>> earned cash, moreso fraudsters and hackers are having a playing field
>>>>>>>>> ripping off many innocent investors...
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> My advice, keep off bitcoin!
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> pro
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On Wed, Nov 26, 2014 at 9:33 AM, John Karanja via skunkworks <
>>>>>>>>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Hi Listers,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin Meetup sign up here:
>>>>>>>>>> <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1446634865>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.meetup.com/Kenya-Bitcoin/events/218657905/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin which is like *global M-Pesa is* the World’s most
>>>>>>>>>> celebrated digital and crypto-currency. The past 5 years has seen this new
>>>>>>>>>> technology experience gradual and steady growth in use around the World.
>>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin today has over 10 million users globally and is growing fast!
>>>>>>>>>> Together with the African Digital Currency Association(ADCA)  we
>>>>>>>>>> are hosting a Bitcoin Meetup on Monday 1st December 2014 5:30PM at
>>>>>>>>>> the iHub, 4th Floor, Bishop Magua Centre, Ngong Road, Directly opposite
>>>>>>>>>> Uchumi, Ngong Road. We look forward to demonstrating how you can Buy, Trade
>>>>>>>>>> and Store your Bitcoin in this session.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Come prepared with your Bitcoin Wallets which you can download
>>>>>>>>>> from Google Play and Apple Store as Whive <http://Whive.org>
>>>>>>>>>> will be sponsoring free BTC Giveways.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> If you have no idea how to set up the wallet buzz me off-list and
>>>>>>>>>> I will help.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin Meetup sign up here:
>>>>>>>>>> <https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/goog_1446634865>
>>>>>>>>>> http://www.meetup.com/Kenya-Bitcoin/events/218657905/
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> As background info read about E.A legal status and regulation of
>>>>>>>>>> Bitcoin on the iHub community blog here. Post by ADCA lead Michael Kimani.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> http://community.ihub.co.ke/blogs/21585/digital-currency-regulation-in-east-africa
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> See you there,
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> John Karanja
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>>>> skunkworks at lists.my.co.ke
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>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>> "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of
>>>>>>>>> luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Roy.
>>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of
>>>>>> luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Roy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> kictanet mailing list
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>>>>>>
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy
>>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
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>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Warm Regards,
>>>>>
>>>>> Phares Kariuki
>>>>>
>>>>> *E*: pkariuki at gmail.com | *Twitter*: kaboro | *B*:
>>>>> http://www.angani.co | Angani Limited
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
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>>>>
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>>>
>>>
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>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
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>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
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>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
> *William Warero*
> ***            *
> *Skype:william.warero| Twitter:wwarero
>
> http://www.produsoul.wordpress.com
>
> *
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at
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>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>

-- 
Warm Regards,

Phares Kariuki

*E*: pkariuki at gmail.com | *Twitter*: kaboro | *B*: http://www.angani.co |
Angani Limited
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