[kictanet] the used computers debate

Tue Mar 16 11:07:37 EAT 2010

That is commendable Evans, we need more voices for the voiceless,
bwana PS that is real leadership, bwana Ikua we are looking forwad to
a report on your meeting.

Regards
On Tue, Mar 16, 2010That at 9:57 AM,  <ikua at lpakenya.org> wrote:
> Thanks a lot Daktari for that clarification and the invitation. The
> availability of yourself and your Ministry to industry players is highly
> appreciated. I will come along with a small number of colleagues who are
> involved in hardware sales and hen we can give you our proposals. Its a fact
> that there is a general e-waste issue that we need to deal with in a
> wholesome manner and am sure we will be able to put our case forward and
> reach consensus on the contentious issues.
>
> Good day all.
>
> Ikua
>
> Quoting waudo siganga <emailsignet at mailcan.com>:
>
>> This openness from the PS is laudable. I met a mzungu during ICANN who
>> was impressed that we have a PS who has agreed to be on a "Civil Society
>> emailing List". he was wishing it was so in his country. Also recently I
>> received an email from someone in the rural areas who had an IT
>> investment idea and it read (un-edited) in part:
>>
>> "Kindly my dear friend, organise for a meeting between you, Luis
>> Otieno(Microsoft), ICT Board Chairman - remind me his name - I gues its
>> the former 3mice CEO(Problem of being in Shaggs!!!), George Okando,
>> George Muhia - IBM , HP CEO and any other influential person e.g
>> Permanent Secretary  information ( DR Bitange)- I like this guys
>> brains."
>>
>> So best wishes to Evans on the 19th!
>>
>> Waudo
>>
>> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:10 +0000, bitange at jambo.co.ke wrote:
>>>
>>> Ikua,
>>> We can meet 4pm on Friday the 19th of this month.  In my statement, I
>>> said "we are considering a ban".  Treasury has had many problems with
>>> used electronic imports and computers are just one of them.  We shall
>>> talk.
>>>
>>> Ndemo.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry®
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: ikua at lpakenya.org
>>> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 03:15:02
>>> To: <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] the used computers debate
>>>
>>> Thank you Kivuva for echoing my concerns.
>>>
>>> To answer you Dr Waudo, I don't agree with you that we are too busy.
>>> As much as I agree that the PS is quite available all round for
>>> consultation, my problem is the way these policy pronouncements appear
>>> in the media, with no visible option for recourse. When the PS
>>> announces in the media that he will ban used computers, it seems like
>>> the decision has already been made. That is what my complain was
>>> about. I wish he had invited industry players to give their views for
>>> or against such a drastic decision.
>>>
>>> I will actually seek to have an audience with him and try and make him
>>> see our side of the story, as we also try and understand where he is
>>> coming from. I believe he has the best interests of our country at
>>> heart, as we all do.
>>>
>>> Knowing that Dr. Ndemo will read this, please grant us an audience
>>> when we call your office.
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>> Ikua
>>>
>>>
>>> Quoting lordmwesh <lordmwesh at gmail.com>:
>>>
>>> >  As much as we want to be proud of ourselves, it's only fair  we
>>> > realize
>>> > Kenya is a "developing third world" as the wabeberu likes to call us.
>>> >
>>> > In that regard, second hand items will always be part of us, cars,
>>> > computers, etc.
>>> >
>>> > Instead of issuing a total ban, we can grade the second hand electronic
>>> > equipments that get into the country, just like we do for cars. This
>>> > will
>>> > not prevent 'contraband' computers getting into the market, just  the
>>> > way we
>>> > can't prevent illicit drugs, and cars older than 10years sneaking
>>> > through
>>> > our ports, but at least will help in regulating the quality that gets
>>> > in.
>>> >
>>> > Politics is a game of interest, but when making policies, we should
>>> > always
>>> > look at the good interests of the whole county.
>>> >
>>> > PS Ndemo, and me can afford powerful new computers, but what about the
>>> > college kid who is learning how to code, or the estate entrepreneur who
>>> > is
>>> > setting up a cyber?
>>> >
>>> > We all know that some new computer clones have poor performance than
>>> > most
>>> > branded second hand imports.  For example, I have never been able to
>>> > buy a
>>> > durable new keyboard or mouse, unless its part of a western branded new
>>> > or
>>> > second hand computer. Maybe I don't know where to shop.
>>> >
>>> > Most of the techies in this list will agree that a western branded
>>> > second
>>> > hand computer (HP, Dell, et al) with 2.5GHZ CPU, 1GB RAM, 80GB HDD, and
>>> > a
>>> > TFT all costing roughly KES24,000, and are just as good for daily
>>> > applications
>>> >
>>> > Regards
>>> >
>>> > Mwendwa Kivuva
>>> > 0722402248
>>> >
>>> > ____________________
>>> > transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing
>>> > biblia.kenya.or.ke | A verse a day
>>> > kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On 11 March 2010 10:51, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack at gmail.com>
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> >> Colleagues,
>>> >>
>>> >> "In a recent report, Information permanent secretary Bitange Ndemo
>>> >> proposed a ban on used computer imports. This is good because of the
>>> >> growing threat posed by hazardous e-waste from used electronic
>>> >> equipment ? computers, mobile phones, television sets and even
>>> >> fridges."
>>> >>
>>> >> This is just a proposal, i agree with Mr. Ikua there is
>>> >> misrepresentation of facts, let us focus on access for all and if used
>>> >> computers can address this issue then they should be permitted,
>>> >> ikssues of e-waste can be handled by KEBS, i am aware of the fact that
>>> >> there are vested interests in the whole issue, if we are not careful
>>> >> we will continue playing second fiddle to Europe and other continents
>>> >> I am sickened by the fact that we are are mostly "resellers" and
>>> >> "consumers"(peripheral roles) access is what will stimulate knowledge
>>> >> transfer hence innovation. We need a stakeholder meeting before the
>>> >> ban is effected if at all it will be effected and possibly a
>>> >> referendum on the matter.
>>> >>
>>> >> Thank you
>>> >>
>>> >> On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 5:42 PM, waudo siganga
>>> >> <emailsignet at mailcan.com>
>>> >> wrote:
>>> >> > Evans - I am also sad regarding this ban but I have to unfortunately
>>> >> > challenge you. I think we need to blame ourselves in the  industry
>>> >> > rather
>>> >> > than the Ministry because we are too busy with too many things to
>>> >> > properly engage the Ministry. I believe the Ministry has an
>>> >> > open-door
>>> >> > policy and even the PS has agreed to be on this list which is
>>> >> > commendable. You and I run associations that engage in Public Policy
>>> >> > advocacy. Can you tell us what exactly your association has done to
>>> >> > predict this development and what engagement you have had with the
>>> >> > Ministry on the issue which was then dis-regarded when the decision
>>> >> > was
>>> >> > made?  I know my association has not attended to this issue mainly
>>> >> > because we are attending to too many things - so we need to  proceed
>>> >> > from
>>> >> > there before blaming the Ministry.
>>> >> >
>>> >> > Waudo
>>> >> >
>>> >> >
>>> >> > On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 01:39 -0600, ikua at lpakenya.org wrote:
>>> >> >> So we are back to this debate about used computers. seems like the
>>> >> >> Ministry will not relent on this.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> The story in the business daily has a lot of misinformation and
>>> >> >> half
>>> >> >> truths coming from the Ministry. To say that the price of new
>>> >> >> computers has come down to affordable levels is to be economical
>>> >> >> with
>>> >> >> the truth. How much is a new Dell or HP computer? About 45k. The
>>> >> >> lower
>>> >> >> priced models like Mecer or Acer will go for about 35k and above
>>> >> >> for
>>> >> >> standard specs.
>>> >> >> How about a new clone? About 25k. And the lifespan of a new clone?
>>> >> >> About 3 years, 4 if you are lucky. The warranty on new clones is
>>> >> >> only
>>> >> >> 3 months. Used/refurbished computers can give the user upwards of 5
>>> >> >> years in good use. Between a new clone made with cheap parts from
>>> >> >> China and a used computer of a major brand, I would go for the used
>>> >> >> computer.
>>> >> >> With 10k, you have a good low spec used computer. So as a student
>>> >> >> or a
>>> >> >> home user, you get easy access to technology. With 15k, you have a
>>> >> >> powerful used computer with specs like P4 3.0/512mb RAM/80gb HDD.
>>> >> >> So
>>> >> >> as a small business which needs to buy 10 computers, or a school or
>>> >> >> college that needs to buy 40 computers, what would you go for with
>>> >> >> a
>>> >> >> limited budget?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Why cant the government regulate the trade in used computers
>>> >> >> instead
>>> >> >> of imposing a total ban? The industry will still have jobs for IT
>>> >> >> technicians, whether its used computers or its assembly of clones.
>>> >> >> which leads m,e to the question, what happened to the eMado
>>> >> >> computer?
>>> >> >> How is it doing as a business proposition? How many have been sold
>>> >> >> and
>>> >> >> to whom? How much is it? How many components are being manufactured
>>> >> >> in
>>> >> >> Kenya?
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> We can for instance say  that we will not accept into the country a
>>> >> >> computer manufactured over 5 years ago, or 8 years, like motor
>>> >> >> vehicles. Or that we will not accept computers below a certain
>>> >> >> speed.
>>> >> >> Clones have much more ewaste than used computers as they die
>>> >> >> faster.
>>> >> >> Yet new branded computers are way beyond the reach of the common
>>> >> >> mwananchi. but again, this has never been about the common
>>> >> >> mwananchi,
>>> >> >> inasmuch as noone sees the need to find out what he thinks about
>>> >> >> such
>>> >> >> policy decisions.
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> Regards,
>>> >> >> Ikua
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >>
>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
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>>> >> >>
>>> >> >
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>>> >>
>>> >>
>>> >>
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>>
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