[kictanet] the used computers debate
ikua at lpakenya.org
ikua at lpakenya.org
Tue Mar 16 10:57:13 EAT 2010
Thanks a lot Daktari for that clarification and the invitation. The
availability of yourself and your Ministry to industry players is
highly appreciated. I will come along with a small number of
colleagues who are involved in hardware sales and hen we can give you
our proposals. Its a fact that there is a general e-waste issue that
we need to deal with in a wholesome manner and am sure we will be able
to put our case forward and reach consensus on the contentious issues.
Good day all.
Ikua
Quoting waudo siganga <emailsignet at mailcan.com>:
> This openness from the PS is laudable. I met a mzungu during ICANN who
> was impressed that we have a PS who has agreed to be on a "Civil Society
> emailing List". he was wishing it was so in his country. Also recently I
> received an email from someone in the rural areas who had an IT
> investment idea and it read (un-edited) in part:
>
> "Kindly my dear friend, organise for a meeting between you, Luis
> Otieno(Microsoft), ICT Board Chairman - remind me his name - I gues its
> the former 3mice CEO(Problem of being in Shaggs!!!), George Okando,
> George Muhia - IBM , HP CEO and any other influential person e.g
> Permanent Secretary information ( DR Bitange)- I like this guys
> brains."
>
> So best wishes to Evans on the 19th!
>
> Waudo
>
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 13:10 +0000, bitange at jambo.co.ke wrote:
>> Ikua,
>> We can meet 4pm on Friday the 19th of this month. In my statement, I
>> said "we are considering a ban". Treasury has had many problems with
>> used electronic imports and computers are just one of them. We shall
>> talk.
>>
>> Ndemo.
>>
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry®
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: ikua at lpakenya.org
>> Date: Mon, 15 Mar 2010 03:15:02
>> To: <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] the used computers debate
>>
>> Thank you Kivuva for echoing my concerns.
>>
>> To answer you Dr Waudo, I don't agree with you that we are too busy.
>> As much as I agree that the PS is quite available all round for
>> consultation, my problem is the way these policy pronouncements appear
>> in the media, with no visible option for recourse. When the PS
>> announces in the media that he will ban used computers, it seems like
>> the decision has already been made. That is what my complain was
>> about. I wish he had invited industry players to give their views for
>> or against such a drastic decision.
>>
>> I will actually seek to have an audience with him and try and make him
>> see our side of the story, as we also try and understand where he is
>> coming from. I believe he has the best interests of our country at
>> heart, as we all do.
>>
>> Knowing that Dr. Ndemo will read this, please grant us an audience
>> when we call your office.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ikua
>>
>>
>> Quoting lordmwesh <lordmwesh at gmail.com>:
>>
>> > As much as we want to be proud of ourselves, it's only fair we realize
>> > Kenya is a "developing third world" as the wabeberu likes to call us.
>> >
>> > In that regard, second hand items will always be part of us, cars,
>> > computers, etc.
>> >
>> > Instead of issuing a total ban, we can grade the second hand electronic
>> > equipments that get into the country, just like we do for cars. This will
>> > not prevent 'contraband' computers getting into the market, just
>> the way we
>> > can't prevent illicit drugs, and cars older than 10years sneaking through
>> > our ports, but at least will help in regulating the quality that gets in.
>> >
>> > Politics is a game of interest, but when making policies, we should always
>> > look at the good interests of the whole county.
>> >
>> > PS Ndemo, and me can afford powerful new computers, but what about the
>> > college kid who is learning how to code, or the estate entrepreneur who is
>> > setting up a cyber?
>> >
>> > We all know that some new computer clones have poor performance than most
>> > branded second hand imports. For example, I have never been able to buy a
>> > durable new keyboard or mouse, unless its part of a western branded new or
>> > second hand computer. Maybe I don't know where to shop.
>> >
>> > Most of the techies in this list will agree that a western branded second
>> > hand computer (HP, Dell, et al) with 2.5GHZ CPU, 1GB RAM, 80GB HDD, and a
>> > TFT all costing roughly KES24,000, and are just as good for daily
>> > applications
>> >
>> > Regards
>> >
>> > Mwendwa Kivuva
>> > 0722402248
>> >
>> > ____________________
>> > transworldAfrica.com | Fluent in computing
>> > biblia.kenya.or.ke | A verse a day
>> > kenya.or.ke | The Kenya we know
>> >
>> >
>> > On 11 March 2010 10:51, Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack at gmail.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >> Colleagues,
>> >>
>> >> "In a recent report, Information permanent secretary Bitange Ndemo
>> >> proposed a ban on used computer imports. This is good because of the
>> >> growing threat posed by hazardous e-waste from used electronic
>> >> equipment ? computers, mobile phones, television sets and even
>> >> fridges."
>> >>
>> >> This is just a proposal, i agree with Mr. Ikua there is
>> >> misrepresentation of facts, let us focus on access for all and if used
>> >> computers can address this issue then they should be permitted,
>> >> ikssues of e-waste can be handled by KEBS, i am aware of the fact that
>> >> there are vested interests in the whole issue, if we are not careful
>> >> we will continue playing second fiddle to Europe and other continents
>> >> I am sickened by the fact that we are are mostly "resellers" and
>> >> "consumers"(peripheral roles) access is what will stimulate knowledge
>> >> transfer hence innovation. We need a stakeholder meeting before the
>> >> ban is effected if at all it will be effected and possibly a
>> >> referendum on the matter.
>> >>
>> >> Thank you
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Mar 10, 2010 at 5:42 PM, waudo siganga <emailsignet at mailcan.com>
>> >> wrote:
>> >> > Evans - I am also sad regarding this ban but I have to unfortunately
>> >> > challenge you. I think we need to blame ourselves in the
>> industry rather
>> >> > than the Ministry because we are too busy with too many things to
>> >> > properly engage the Ministry. I believe the Ministry has an open-door
>> >> > policy and even the PS has agreed to be on this list which is
>> >> > commendable. You and I run associations that engage in Public Policy
>> >> > advocacy. Can you tell us what exactly your association has done to
>> >> > predict this development and what engagement you have had with the
>> >> > Ministry on the issue which was then dis-regarded when the decision was
>> >> > made? I know my association has not attended to this issue mainly
>> >> > because we are attending to too many things - so we need to
>> proceed from
>> >> > there before blaming the Ministry.
>> >> >
>> >> > Waudo
>> >> >
>> >> >
>> >> > On Tue, 09 Mar 2010 01:39 -0600, ikua at lpakenya.org wrote:
>> >> >> So we are back to this debate about used computers. seems like the
>> >> >> Ministry will not relent on this.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> The story in the business daily has a lot of misinformation and half
>> >> >> truths coming from the Ministry. To say that the price of new
>> >> >> computers has come down to affordable levels is to be economical with
>> >> >> the truth. How much is a new Dell or HP computer? About 45k. The lower
>> >> >> priced models like Mecer or Acer will go for about 35k and above for
>> >> >> standard specs.
>> >> >> How about a new clone? About 25k. And the lifespan of a new clone?
>> >> >> About 3 years, 4 if you are lucky. The warranty on new clones is only
>> >> >> 3 months. Used/refurbished computers can give the user upwards of 5
>> >> >> years in good use. Between a new clone made with cheap parts from
>> >> >> China and a used computer of a major brand, I would go for the used
>> >> >> computer.
>> >> >> With 10k, you have a good low spec used computer. So as a student or a
>> >> >> home user, you get easy access to technology. With 15k, you have a
>> >> >> powerful used computer with specs like P4 3.0/512mb RAM/80gb HDD. So
>> >> >> as a small business which needs to buy 10 computers, or a school or
>> >> >> college that needs to buy 40 computers, what would you go for with a
>> >> >> limited budget?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Why cant the government regulate the trade in used computers instead
>> >> >> of imposing a total ban? The industry will still have jobs for IT
>> >> >> technicians, whether its used computers or its assembly of clones.
>> >> >> which leads m,e to the question, what happened to the eMado computer?
>> >> >> How is it doing as a business proposition? How many have been sold and
>> >> >> to whom? How much is it? How many components are being manufactured in
>> >> >> Kenya?
>> >> >>
>> >> >> We can for instance say that we will not accept into the country a
>> >> >> computer manufactured over 5 years ago, or 8 years, like motor
>> >> >> vehicles. Or that we will not accept computers below a certain speed.
>> >> >> Clones have much more ewaste than used computers as they die faster.
>> >> >> Yet new branded computers are way beyond the reach of the common
>> >> >> mwananchi. but again, this has never been about the common mwananchi,
>> >> >> inasmuch as noone sees the need to find out what he thinks about such
>> >> >> policy decisions.
>> >> >>
>> >> >> Regards,
>> >> >> Ikua
>> >> >>
>> >> >>
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>> >>
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