[kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya

Mon Jul 14 07:25:16 EAT 2008

Brian,

I don't get the moral of your story: is it that it is good the firms are today 100% owned by Egyptians, or that the Egyptians invited/allowed the foreigners to build the infrastructure?

Shem

--- On Sun, 7/13/08, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya
To: "Shem Ochuodho" <shemochuodho at yahoo.com>
Cc: "kictanet-lists" <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Date: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 12:28 AM

Hi Manthi,

Now *that* is framed in language we can discuss....

It is true that we do no have a policy that guides the entry of foreign *companies* and/or investors from the standpoint of protecting/building Kenyan capacity.

Take the example of mobile sector, there is not one single operator that is *controlled* locally - this is true for all 4 operators; safaricom, celtel, econet and orange. Is this a good or a bad thing? Hmmm - worth thinking about. Control comes through investment. 

For the policy angle, look at what Egypt did with the first major mobile
 infrastructure rollouts. As part of they supply contract they required that the vendor build a local handset manufacture plant on a build-own-opreate-transfer (BOOT) model. Today these plants are 100% egypt owned, creating employment and Egypt manufactures handets for the local market and also exports to many other Arabic speaking countries.

Food for thought...

Brian
Sent from my iPhone

On 12 Jul 2008, at 11:35 PM, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi at gmail.com> wrote:

Brian
We can stick our heads into the sands all we want but when you look around Kenya you will see major chunks of the economy controlled by foreigners. 

No self respecting peoples should allow this to happen. Misquoting Nyerere - this is ukoloni mamboleo.

What really concerns me right now - and it really pains me - is that we are about tobgive up the ICT industry to a bunch of foreigners. If this is not ICT policy I do not know what is.

Again go to India and the EEU and tell me how many Africans are running major ICT corporations.

Why are we letting this happen? So that we can look like we are civilized? Does any one else see what I am saying?

Joe 

Joseph Manthi
CEO, MEO Ltd
T:603 320 2924
F:315 320 2920

On Jul 12, 2008, at 3:38 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe at gmail.com> wrote:

Hi John,

That kind of talk and reasoning is not helpful. There are actually very many Kenyans out there doing business and being successful all over the world.

We should avoid racist/xenophobic insinuations on this list. We have already in the recent past permanently suspended members who persisted in ethic hate-speak. This forum is not a platform for our pet peeves or hangups. 

I would urge members to think about whether the comment/contribution is related to ICT in terms of policy, advocacy, strategy and/or awareness and desist from posting if not. 

Brian

Sent from my iPhone

On 12 Jul 2008, at 9:12 PM, "Joseph Manthi" <jmanthi at gmail.com> wrote:

Kevit
This is the height of arrogance - excuse my sceptism. The names you have just mentioned are the exact reasons why Kenyan's should be very ashamed of themselves. 

I do not see Kenyan's directing major corporations in India and Europe.

Joe

On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:52 PM, kevit desai <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:

Dear Brian,
Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman.

Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your support with some off the very exciting things we are doing.

What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially when we see the success and contributions of some people.   Kenya's grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael Joseph, Marcel Werner, and others, they have contributed so much. Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICT's. 
Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have to be put in place.

Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you uniting us all to a common vision of ICT's for National development. 

I am waiting….

Kevit Desai

From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe
Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50
To: kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com
Cc: kictanet-lists
Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya

Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF,

I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue.

As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the same time providing as many answers as this media allows.

I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya. I now humbly beg you to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse of this forum. 

As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs.

I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex, by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month.

I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya, and this will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions.

Sincerely

Brian Munyao Longwe

Chairman, KICTANET

Sent from my iPhone

On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, "Marcel Werner" <marcelcwerner at gmail.com> wrote:

Hello Kictanet membership,
The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally reputable ICT associations and companies.
KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week).
Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander. This is unacceptable.
The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and performance – I have to conclude today that membership management has
 never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members".
We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a role today at all and creates a space for civil society to alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean up its house.
We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any nonsense.
Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF    :)

2008/7/11 kevit desai <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>:

Alex,
Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization,
supported by its members who are also reputable and well established
organizations.
I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF. Please
verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions since your
information is false.
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