[kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya

[Joseph Manthi]

So your solution is to regulate - also known as control - ICT?

On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 3:57 AM, saidimu apale <saidimu at gmail.com> wrote:

> > But ICT is not medicine, and no life is at stake here...
>
> You must be joking! Have you heard of medical systems controlled by
> software? Air-traffic control systems? Airplane navigation systems?
> Banking systems? Traffic-light systems? The microwave you use at home?
> That little gadget that you depend on some much - the mobile phone?
>
> No life at stake?
>
> Have an informative day.
>
> Saidi
>
> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 8:43 PM, Joseph Manthi <jmanthi at gmail.com> wrote:
> > Brian and Waudi:
> > But ICT is not medicine, and no life is at stake here even though the
> > medical and chemical practitioners - read chemists - would want us to
> > believe it is so. Why do we want to suffocate the baby before it is born?
> >
> > If Kenya wants to compete with India and other countries in ICT, I urge
> you
> > guys to leave the industry alone. This is akin to what CCK is doing to
> the
> > telecommunications industry. They want to license people who can connect
> > cables. How much knowledge does one need to connect an RJ45 cable to a
> PC?
> > Likewise do we need to license PHP programmers? Will this give us the
> sense
> > of security that we have the best programmers working today just because
> > they have a license saying so? Need I dwell on my experience hiring MS
> > licensed engineers and what I think about those MSCEs etc?
> >
> > My teachers used to say "think twice before you leap". This is a case
> where
> > this adage needs to be heeded. There is the concept of collateral damage
> and
> > an intended consequences. Please contemplate those.
> >
> > Joe
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe at gmail.com>
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> Very correct Waudi. That's why we have Paediatrics Association, a
> >> Pyschiatrics Association, a Dental Board, an Obstetrics Society. You
> >> have gotten the point clearly.
> >>
> >> Asante sana!
> >>
> >> B
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >>
> >> On 07 Jul 2008, at 7:54 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet at mailcan.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > Brian - I do not know what you are saying. The medical field, as
> >> > another
> >> > example, is wide and diverse - we have heart surgeons, ENT
> >> > specialists,
> >> > paeditricians, general practitioners, gynacologists, etc, etc. Are
> >> > these
> >> > people the same? Would you go to a gynacologist to solve your eye
> >> > ailment? OK, let us forget about regulating or registering doctors. To
> >> > wide, large and deep.
> >> >
> >> > Waudo
> >> > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 19:00:54 +0300, "Brian Longwe" <blongwe at gmail.com>
> >> > said:
> >> >> Hi Walu,
> >> >>
> >> >> I beg to differ. ICT is too large, too deep and too wide to have a
> >> >> single, authoritative, representative body. What you refer to would
> >> >> probably be more appropriate to some of the professional disciplines
> >> >> within the ICT sector e.g. Software Developers Guild, System
> >> >> Administrators Association, CIO/CTO Society - within which there can
> >> >> be certain codes of behavior, ethics, values, best practices etc...
> >> >>
> >> >> I would venture to suggest that ICT is very similar to the auto
> >> >> industry - which is made up of so many different types of
> >> >> stakeholders
> >> >> (from multi-national vendors like GM to Owino my jua-kali fundi and a
> >> >> plethora of linkages across insurance, finance, property, transport
> >> >> etc...)
> >> >>
> >> >> Not that I intend to put your suggestions down - but to request a
> >> >> slightly broader view of the animal called ICT.
> >> >>
> >> >> To illustrate this point I will wax poetic and share with you the
> >> >> following poem by John Godfrey Saxe ( 1816-1887)
> >> >>
> >> >> The Blind men and the Elephant
> >> >>
> >> >> It was six men of Indostan
> >> >> To learning much inclined,
> >> >> Who went to see the Elephant
> >> >> (Though all of them were blind),
> >> >> That each by observation
> >> >> Might satisfy his mind.
> >> >>
> >> >> The First approach'd the Elephant,
> >> >> And happening to fall
> >> >> Against his broad and sturdy side,
> >> >> At once began to bawl:
> >> >> "God bless me! but the Elephant
> >> >> Is very like a wall!"
> >> >>
> >> >> The Second, feeling of the tusk,
> >> >> Cried, -"Ho! what have we here
> >> >> So very round and smooth and sharp?
> >> >> To me 'tis mighty clear
> >> >> This wonder of an Elephant
> >> >> Is very like a spear!"
> >> >>
> >> >> The Third approached the animal,
> >> >> And happening to take
> >> >> The squirming trunk within his hands,
> >> >> Thus boldly up and spake:
> >> >> "I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
> >> >> Is very like a snake!"
> >> >>
> >> >> The Fourth reached out his eager hand,
> >> >> And felt about the knee.
> >> >> "What most this wondrous beast is like
> >> >> Is mighty plain," quoth he,
> >> >> "'Tis clear enough the Elephant
> >> >> Is very like a tree!"
> >> >>
> >> >> The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,
> >> >> Said: "E'en the blindest man
> >> >> Can tell what this resembles most;
> >> >> Deny the fact who can,
> >> >> This marvel of an Elephant
> >> >> Is very like a fan!"
> >> >>
> >> >> The Sixth no sooner had begun
> >> >> About the beast to grope,
> >> >> Then, seizing on the swinging tail
> >> >> That fell within his scope,
> >> >> "I see," quoth he, "the Elephant
> >> >> Is very like a rope!"
> >> >>
> >> >> And so these men of Indostan
> >> >> Disputed loud and long,
> >> >> Each in his own opinion
> >> >> Exceeding stiff and strong,
> >> >> Though each was partly in the right,
> >> >> And all were in the wrong!
> >> >>
> >> >> MORAL.
> >> >>
> >> >> So oft in theologic wars,
> >> >> The disputants, I ween,
> >> >> Rail on in utter ignorance
> >> >> Of what each other mean,
> >> >> And prate about an Elephant
> >> >> Not one of them has seen!
> >> >>
> >> >> Sent from my iPhone
> >> >>
> >> >> On 07 Jul 2008, at 12:45 PM, John Walubengo <jwalu at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> Marcel,
> >> >>>
> >> >>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in this
> >> >>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was restricted within KIF
> >> >>> only?  I wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r u there?)
> >> >>> or Information Security Audit & Control (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just
> >> >>> to mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya were involved. I
> >> >>> beg to be enlightened.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> This brings in an old question - who really represents the IT
> >> >>> Profession in Kenya?  Shem has been on record as saying that IT is
> >> >>> the only discipline where we seem to lack bodies with the same
> >> >>> authority as LSK (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of Engineers
> >> >>> of Kenya), Medical Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate
> >> >>> the IT Profession.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill either  (and has a
> >> >>> different objective anyway).  But time has come to really start
> >> >>> thinking of regulating the IT profession, even as we struggle to
> >> >>> regulate the industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on this,
> >> >>> but they have been awfully quite except when they award prizes at
> >> >>> the end of the year (Waudo I know u will kill me offline but I just
> >> >>> had to say it!).
> >> >>>
> >> >>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective particularly in the
> >> >>> Manufacturing sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as
> >> >>> effective - particularly because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the
> >> >>> IT industry has been 'cloudy' for lack of a better word...Can for
> >> >>> example CSK or ISACA  be part of KEPSA without being part of KIF? I
> >> >>> again need to be enlightened.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just thinking loudly and saying that
> >> >>> as we think of regulating electronic transactions, we also need to
> >> >>> simultaneously start regulating the IT profession..but maybe I am
> >> >>> wrong. Particularly because regulation can and often leads to
> >> >>> suppression...
> >> >>>
> >> >>> walu.
> >> >>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner <marcelcwerner at gmail.com> wrote:
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> From: Marcel Werner <marcelcwerner at gmail.com>
> >> >>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in
> >> >>>> Kenya
> >> >>>> To: jwalu at yahoo.com
> >> >>>> Cc: secretariat at kif.or.ke, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"
> >> >>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >> >>>>>
> >> >>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM
> >> >>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # 3  - Report -
> >> >>>> Public Panel 19
> >> >>>> June 2008
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add at least one
> >> >>>> percent point growth
> >> >>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth within five years.
> >> >>>> This is contingent
> >> >>>> upon the adoption of legislation that supports electronic
> >> >>>> transactions. *Kenya,
> >> >>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, lags behind in
> >> >>>> having a legal
> >> >>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The current situation is
> >> >>>> an anachronism
> >> >>>> hampering national development, placing provincial centres
> >> >>>> at a
> >> >>>> disadvantage, and harming global competitiveness. Both
> >> >>>> external and internal
> >> >>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan private sector
> >> >>>> strongly supports
> >> >>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as legislation of the
> >> >>>> Information and
> >> >>>> Communication Technology sector that guarantees an open
> >> >>>> market and promotes
> >> >>>> innovation.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation supporting
> >> >>>> electronic transactions
> >> >>>> represents the single most powerful innovation opportunity
> >> >>>> in the legal
> >> >>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is needed to:
> >> >>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by recognizing an
> >> >>>> electronic signature
> >> >>>> -Manage and control e-commerce risks
> >> >>>> -Remove e-commerce barriers
> >> >>>> KIF has studied drafts currently circulating in the public
> >> >>>> domain, the
> >> >>>> Information and Communications Bill, 2008, and the
> >> >>>> Electronic Transactions
> >> >>>> Bill, 2007, respectively, both of which are of the highest
> >> >>>> technical
> >> >>>> standards. Public panels and hearings with sectors of the
> >> >>>> economy (including
> >> >>>> tourism, agriculture, ICT) have been held on 6th and 27th
> >> >>>> May, 4th June and
> >> >>>> 19th June. The Kenyan private sector has expressed
> >> >>>> overwhelming support for
> >> >>>> urgent legislation of e-commerce.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Suggested improvements in Bills - The public panels and
> >> >>>> hearings to date
> >> >>>> have yielded the following important issues for improvement
> >> >>>> in the current
> >> >>>> Bills:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> -          Provisions on who can prosecute are missing
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> -          Liability of Internet Service Providers must be
> >> >>>> demarcated
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> -          Clarification on which commercial documents are
> >> >>>> excluded from
> >> >>>> proposed legislation
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> -          Eliminate any ambiguity on admissibility of
> >> >>>> electronic evidence
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> -          Need for data protection and privacy provisions
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> -          The Bills are more lenient on e-commerce fraud
> >> >>>> than on
> >> >>>> traditional fraud
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> -          Remove inconsistencies in determining crimes and
> >> >>>> punishments
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> -          Provisions for the inclusion of cyber-crime
> >> >>>> within the scope of
> >> >>>> the Extradition Act
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> -          Creation of an Administrator for e-commerce laws
> >> >>>> whose functions
> >> >>>> will be policy implementation and advisory, as a
> >> >>>> multi-sectoral body with
> >> >>>> industry associations including KIF, lead regulator
> >> >>>> Communications
> >> >>>> Commission of Kenya and co-regulator Central Bank of Kenya
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Gains in tourism, agriculture, healthcare
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Industry sectors, notably the tourism industry, are
> >> >>>> expressing their desire
> >> >>>> to see e-commerce covered by law. In tourism, on-line
> >> >>>> travel bookings have
> >> >>>> exceeded 80% in the USA and 50% in Europe. Decline in
> >> >>>> off-line bookings is
> >> >>>> in ample evidence. Those destinations that cannot legally
> >> >>>> support abundant
> >> >>>> on-line booking, such as Kenya, will loose market share.
> >> >>>> E-commerce in
> >> >>>> agriculture will improve small-holder's living
> >> >>>> standards. Great impact is
> >> >>>> expected notably in the coffee sector that provides
> >> >>>> livelihood to at least 5
> >> >>>> million Kenyans, as well as in the dairy industry.
> >> >>>> Healthcare efficiency and
> >> >>>> affordability will improve by on-line health data
> >> >>>> management systems.
> >> >>>> Business operators in rural towns and rural centres have
> >> >>>> also expressed keen
> >> >>>> interest, as they see scope to address issues of trade
> >> >>>> efficiency and
> >> >>>> security in rural Kenya.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> What is e-commerce
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> E-commerce is a method of trading that replaces paper-based
> >> >>>> documentation by
> >> >>>> a mutually binding electronic protocol between buyers and
> >> >>>> sellers.
> >> >>>> E-commerce is gaining ground globally and has become an
> >> >>>> irreversible trend.
> >> >>>> Many trading partners are already practicing e-commerce, by
> >> >>>> mutual
> >> >>>> agreement, also in Kenya. However, e-commerce will reach
> >> >>>> its full potential
> >> >>>> when parties that do not know each other are able to trade
> >> >>>> with full mutual
> >> >>>> protection under the law. This will benefit large numbers
> >> >>>> of consumers and
> >> >>>> businesses, including small-holder farmers, tourism
> >> >>>> operators, small-scale
> >> >>>> industry and services providers in almost any business
> >> >>>> sector.
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> About KIF
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> The Kenya Information and Communication Technology
> >> >>>> Federation (KIF)
> >> >>>> represents the ICT industry with Government and with
> >> >>>> private sector bodies
> >> >>>> e.g. Kenya Association of Manufacturers and Kenya Private
> >> >>>> Sector Alliance
> >> >>>> KEPSA <http://www.kepsa.org/>. KIF is a legally
> >> >>>> registered membership based
> >> >>>> Association, made up of trade associations and professional
> >> >>>> bodies within
> >> >>>> the national ICT industry, as well as commercial
> >> >>>> corporations. KIF has been
> >> >>>> accepted as the private sector voice of ICT by Government.
> >> >>>> KIF contributes
> >> >>>> ideas to key sectors like healthcare, education,
> >> >>>> agriculture, construction
> >> >>>> industry, and last but not least supports e-government
> >> >>>> development. KIF is a
> >> >>>> membership-driven organisation. Members bring issues on
> >> >>>> public policy and
> >> >>>> industry development forward for KIF to take action. Issues
> >> >>>> include:
> >> >>>> innovation promotion, education improvement, duties, taxes
> >> >>>> and levies, rural
> >> >>>> ICT investment. KIF has a strong and active network, with
> >> >>>> excellent
> >> >>>> relationships with all government agencies. KIF membership
> >> >>>> is open for
> >> >>>> market segment associations and individual companies.
> >> >>>> Membership charges are
> >> >>>> annual and based on company size. Contact:
> >> >>>> secretariat at kif.or.ke, 020
> >> >>>> 4440102
> >> >>>> MARCEL WERNER, Chairman, Kenya ICT Federation
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> please send any business mail to:
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> Marcel.Werner at innovation-africa.or.ke_______________________________________________
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> >> >>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >> >>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> This message was sent to: jwalu at yahoo.com
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> >> >>>> 40yahoo.com
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >> >>>
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> >> >>
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> >> >>
> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.com
> >> > People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work
> >> > (Confucius).
> >> >
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
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> >>
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> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Joseph Manthi
> > CEO
> > MEO Ltd
> > http://www.meoltd.com
> > _______________________________________________
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> >
> >
>



-- 
Joseph Manthi
CEO
MEO Ltd
http://www.meoltd.com
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