So your solution is to regulate - also known as control - ICT?<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Tue, Jul 8, 2008 at 3:57 AM, saidimu apale <<a href="mailto:saidimu@gmail.com">saidimu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="border-left: 1px solid rgb(204, 204, 204); margin: 0pt 0pt 0pt 0.8ex; padding-left: 1ex;">
> But ICT is not medicine, and no life is at stake here...<br>
<br>
You must be joking! Have you heard of medical systems controlled by<br>
software? Air-traffic control systems? Airplane navigation systems?<br>
Banking systems? Traffic-light systems? The microwave you use at home?<br>
That little gadget that you depend on some much - the mobile phone?<br>
<br>
No life at stake?<br>
<br>
Have an informative day.<br>
<br>
Saidi<br>
<br>
On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 8:43 PM, Joseph Manthi <<a href="mailto:jmanthi@gmail.com">jmanthi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
> Brian and Waudi:<br>
> But ICT is not medicine, and no life is at stake here even though the<br>
> medical and chemical practitioners - read chemists - would want us to<br>
> believe it is so. Why do we want to suffocate the baby before it is born?<br>
><br>
> If Kenya wants to compete with India and other countries in ICT, I urge you<br>
> guys to leave the industry alone. This is akin to what CCK is doing to the<br>
> telecommunications industry. They want to license people who can connect<br>
> cables. How much knowledge does one need to connect an RJ45 cable to a PC?<br>
> Likewise do we need to license PHP programmers? Will this give us the sense<br>
> of security that we have the best programmers working today just because<br>
> they have a license saying so? Need I dwell on my experience hiring MS<br>
> licensed engineers and what I think about those MSCEs etc?<br>
><br>
> My teachers used to say "think twice before you leap". This is a case where<br>
> this adage needs to be heeded. There is the concept of collateral damage and<br>
> an intended consequences. Please contemplate those.<br>
><br>
> Joe<br>
><br>
> On Mon, Jul 7, 2008 at 1:19 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <<a href="mailto:blongwe@gmail.com">blongwe@gmail.com</a>><br>
> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> Very correct Waudi. That's why we have Paediatrics Association, a<br>
>> Pyschiatrics Association, a Dental Board, an Obstetrics Society. You<br>
>> have gotten the point clearly.<br>
>><br>
>> Asante sana!<br>
>><br>
>> B<br>
>><br>
>> Sent from my iPhone<br>
>><br>
>> On 07 Jul 2008, at 7:54 PM, "waudo siganga" <<a href="mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com">emailsignet@mailcan.com</a>><br>
>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> > Brian - I do not know what you are saying. The medical field, as<br>
>> > another<br>
>> > example, is wide and diverse - we have heart surgeons, ENT<br>
>> > specialists,<br>
>> > paeditricians, general practitioners, gynacologists, etc, etc. Are<br>
>> > these<br>
>> > people the same? Would you go to a gynacologist to solve your eye<br>
>> > ailment? OK, let us forget about regulating or registering doctors. To<br>
>> > wide, large and deep.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Waudo<br>
>> > On Mon, 7 Jul 2008 19:00:54 +0300, "Brian Longwe" <<a href="mailto:blongwe@gmail.com">blongwe@gmail.com</a>><br>
>> > said:<br>
>> >> Hi Walu,<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> I beg to differ. ICT is too large, too deep and too wide to have a<br>
>> >> single, authoritative, representative body. What you refer to would<br>
>> >> probably be more appropriate to some of the professional disciplines<br>
>> >> within the ICT sector e.g. Software Developers Guild, System<br>
>> >> Administrators Association, CIO/CTO Society - within which there can<br>
>> >> be certain codes of behavior, ethics, values, best practices etc...<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> I would venture to suggest that ICT is very similar to the auto<br>
>> >> industry - which is made up of so many different types of<br>
>> >> stakeholders<br>
>> >> (from multi-national vendors like GM to Owino my jua-kali fundi and a<br>
>> >> plethora of linkages across insurance, finance, property, transport<br>
>> >> etc...)<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Not that I intend to put your suggestions down - but to request a<br>
>> >> slightly broader view of the animal called ICT.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> To illustrate this point I will wax poetic and share with you the<br>
>> >> following poem by John Godfrey Saxe ( 1816-1887)<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> The Blind men and the Elephant<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> It was six men of Indostan<br>
>> >> To learning much inclined,<br>
>> >> Who went to see the Elephant<br>
>> >> (Though all of them were blind),<br>
>> >> That each by observation<br>
>> >> Might satisfy his mind.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> The First approach'd the Elephant,<br>
>> >> And happening to fall<br>
>> >> Against his broad and sturdy side,<br>
>> >> At once began to bawl:<br>
>> >> "God bless me! but the Elephant<br>
>> >> Is very like a wall!"<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> The Second, feeling of the tusk,<br>
>> >> Cried, -"Ho! what have we here<br>
>> >> So very round and smooth and sharp?<br>
>> >> To me 'tis mighty clear<br>
>> >> This wonder of an Elephant<br>
>> >> Is very like a spear!"<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> The Third approached the animal,<br>
>> >> And happening to take<br>
>> >> The squirming trunk within his hands,<br>
>> >> Thus boldly up and spake:<br>
>> >> "I see," quoth he, "the Elephant<br>
>> >> Is very like a snake!"<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> The Fourth reached out his eager hand,<br>
>> >> And felt about the knee.<br>
>> >> "What most this wondrous beast is like<br>
>> >> Is mighty plain," quoth he,<br>
>> >> "'Tis clear enough the Elephant<br>
>> >> Is very like a tree!"<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> The Fifth, who chanced to touch the ear,<br>
>> >> Said: "E'en the blindest man<br>
>> >> Can tell what this resembles most;<br>
>> >> Deny the fact who can,<br>
>> >> This marvel of an Elephant<br>
>> >> Is very like a fan!"<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> The Sixth no sooner had begun<br>
>> >> About the beast to grope,<br>
>> >> Then, seizing on the swinging tail<br>
>> >> That fell within his scope,<br>
>> >> "I see," quoth he, "the Elephant<br>
>> >> Is very like a rope!"<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> And so these men of Indostan<br>
>> >> Disputed loud and long,<br>
>> >> Each in his own opinion<br>
>> >> Exceeding stiff and strong,<br>
>> >> Though each was partly in the right,<br>
>> >> And all were in the wrong!<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> MORAL.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> So oft in theologic wars,<br>
>> >> The disputants, I ween,<br>
>> >> Rail on in utter ignorance<br>
>> >> Of what each other mean,<br>
>> >> And prate about an Elephant<br>
>> >> Not one of them has seen!<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Sent from my iPhone<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">>> >><br>
>> >> On 07 Jul 2008, at 12:45 PM, John Walubengo <<a href="mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com">jwalu@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >><br>
>> >>> Marcel,<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> It looks like quite some work has been ongoing in this<br>
>> >>> area...unfortunately it seems as if it was restricted within KIF<br>
>> >>> only? I wonder if Computer Society of Kenya (CSK, Waudo r u there?)<br>
>> >>> or Information Security Audit & Control (ISACA-Kenya Chapter) just<br>
>> >>> to mention some of the big IT Associations in Kenya were involved. I<br>
>> >>> beg to be enlightened.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> This brings in an old question - who really represents the IT<br>
>> >>> Profession in Kenya? Shem has been on record as saying that IT is<br>
>> >>> the only discipline where we seem to lack bodies with the same<br>
>> >>> authority as LSK (Law Society of Kenya), IEK (Institute of Engineers<br>
>> >>> of Kenya), Medical Practictioners Board amongst others to regulate<br>
>> >>> the IT Profession.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> And by the way, KICTAnet does not fit the bill either (and has a<br>
>> >>> different objective anyway). But time has come to really start<br>
>> >>> thinking of regulating the IT profession, even as we struggle to<br>
>> >>> regulate the industry...Ideally, CSK should take the lead on this,<br>
>> >>> but they have been awfully quite except when they award prizes at<br>
>> >>> the end of the year (Waudo I know u will kill me offline but I just<br>
>> >>> had to say it!).<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> KEPSA? very reputable and effective particularly in the<br>
>> >>> Manufacturing sector but on IT? am not sure they have been as<br>
>> >>> effective - particularly because the link between KEPSA/KIF and the<br>
>> >>> IT industry has been 'cloudy' for lack of a better word...Can for<br>
>> >>> example CSK or ISACA be part of KEPSA without being part of KIF? I<br>
>> >>> again need to be enlightened.<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> O.K. I agree I did digress, but just thinking loudly and saying that<br>
>> >>> as we think of regulating electronic transactions, we also need to<br>
>> >>> simultaneously start regulating the IT profession..but maybe I am<br>
>> >>> wrong. Particularly because regulation can and often leads to<br>
>> >>> suppression...<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> walu.<br>
>> >>> --- On Sun, 7/6/08, Marcel Werner <<a href="mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com">marcelcwerner@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>>> From: Marcel Werner <<a href="mailto:marcelcwerner@gmail.com">marcelcwerner@gmail.com</a>><br>
</div></div><div class="Ih2E3d">>> >>>> Subject: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in<br>
>> >>>> Kenya<br>
</div>>> >>>> To: <a href="mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com">jwalu@yahoo.com</a><br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">>> >>>> Cc: <a href="mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke">secretariat@kif.or.ke</a>, "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions"<br>
</div><div class="Ih2E3d">>> >>>> <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
>> >>>>><br>
>> >>>> Date: Sunday, July 6, 2008, 6:43 PM<br>
</div><div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">>> >>>> Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce in Kenya<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) - Briefing Note # 3 - Report -<br>
>> >>>> Public Panel 19<br>
>> >>>> June 2008<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> *Electronic commerce (e-commerce) will add at least one<br>
>> >>>> percent point growth<br>
>> >>>> to Kenya's overall economic growth within five years.<br>
>> >>>> This is contingent<br>
>> >>>> upon the adoption of legislation that supports electronic<br>
>> >>>> transactions. *Kenya,<br>
>> >>>> as an emerging economy and regional leader, lags behind in<br>
>> >>>> having a legal<br>
>> >>>> framework for e-commerce in place. The current situation is<br>
>> >>>> an anachronism<br>
>> >>>> hampering national development, placing provincial centres<br>
>> >>>> at a<br>
>> >>>> disadvantage, and harming global competitiveness. Both<br>
>> >>>> external and internal<br>
>> >>>> trade require the new framework.The Kenyan private sector<br>
>> >>>> strongly supports<br>
>> >>>> e-commerce legislation, as well as legislation of the<br>
>> >>>> Information and<br>
>> >>>> Communication Technology sector that guarantees an open<br>
>> >>>> market and promotes<br>
>> >>>> innovation.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> Why e-commerce law? Today, legislation supporting<br>
>> >>>> electronic transactions<br>
>> >>>> represents the single most powerful innovation opportunity<br>
>> >>>> in the legal<br>
>> >>>> framework of the ICT sector. Legislation is needed to:<br>
>> >>>> -Legalize e-commerce transactions by recognizing an<br>
>> >>>> electronic signature<br>
>> >>>> -Manage and control e-commerce risks<br>
>> >>>> -Remove e-commerce barriers<br>
>> >>>> KIF has studied drafts currently circulating in the public<br>
>> >>>> domain, the<br>
>> >>>> Information and Communications Bill, 2008, and the<br>
>> >>>> Electronic Transactions<br>
>> >>>> Bill, 2007, respectively, both of which are of the highest<br>
>> >>>> technical<br>
>> >>>> standards. Public panels and hearings with sectors of the<br>
>> >>>> economy (including<br>
>> >>>> tourism, agriculture, ICT) have been held on 6th and 27th<br>
>> >>>> May, 4th June and<br>
>> >>>> 19th June. The Kenyan private sector has expressed<br>
>> >>>> overwhelming support for<br>
>> >>>> urgent legislation of e-commerce.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> Suggested improvements in Bills - The public panels and<br>
>> >>>> hearings to date<br>
>> >>>> have yielded the following important issues for improvement<br>
>> >>>> in the current<br>
>> >>>> Bills:<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> - Provisions on who can prosecute are missing<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> - Liability of Internet Service Providers must be<br>
>> >>>> demarcated<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> - Clarification on which commercial documents are<br>
>> >>>> excluded from<br>
>> >>>> proposed legislation<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> - Eliminate any ambiguity on admissibility of<br>
>> >>>> electronic evidence<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> - Need for data protection and privacy provisions<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> - The Bills are more lenient on e-commerce fraud<br>
>> >>>> than on<br>
>> >>>> traditional fraud<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> - Remove inconsistencies in determining crimes and<br>
>> >>>> punishments<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> - Provisions for the inclusion of cyber-crime<br>
>> >>>> within the scope of<br>
>> >>>> the Extradition Act<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> - Creation of an Administrator for e-commerce laws<br>
>> >>>> whose functions<br>
>> >>>> will be policy implementation and advisory, as a<br>
>> >>>> multi-sectoral body with<br>
>> >>>> industry associations including KIF, lead regulator<br>
>> >>>> Communications<br>
>> >>>> Commission of Kenya and co-regulator Central Bank of Kenya<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> Gains in tourism, agriculture, healthcare<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> Industry sectors, notably the tourism industry, are<br>
>> >>>> expressing their desire<br>
>> >>>> to see e-commerce covered by law. In tourism, on-line<br>
>> >>>> travel bookings have<br>
>> >>>> exceeded 80% in the USA and 50% in Europe. Decline in<br>
>> >>>> off-line bookings is<br>
>> >>>> in ample evidence. Those destinations that cannot legally<br>
>> >>>> support abundant<br>
>> >>>> on-line booking, such as Kenya, will loose market share.<br>
>> >>>> E-commerce in<br>
>> >>>> agriculture will improve small-holder's living<br>
>> >>>> standards. Great impact is<br>
>> >>>> expected notably in the coffee sector that provides<br>
>> >>>> livelihood to at least 5<br>
>> >>>> million Kenyans, as well as in the dairy industry.<br>
>> >>>> Healthcare efficiency and<br>
>> >>>> affordability will improve by on-line health data<br>
>> >>>> management systems.<br>
>> >>>> Business operators in rural towns and rural centres have<br>
>> >>>> also expressed keen<br>
>> >>>> interest, as they see scope to address issues of trade<br>
>> >>>> efficiency and<br>
>> >>>> security in rural Kenya.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> What is e-commerce<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> E-commerce is a method of trading that replaces paper-based<br>
>> >>>> documentation by<br>
>> >>>> a mutually binding electronic protocol between buyers and<br>
>> >>>> sellers.<br>
>> >>>> E-commerce is gaining ground globally and has become an<br>
>> >>>> irreversible trend.<br>
>> >>>> Many trading partners are already practicing e-commerce, by<br>
>> >>>> mutual<br>
>> >>>> agreement, also in Kenya. However, e-commerce will reach<br>
>> >>>> its full potential<br>
>> >>>> when parties that do not know each other are able to trade<br>
>> >>>> with full mutual<br>
>> >>>> protection under the law. This will benefit large numbers<br>
>> >>>> of consumers and<br>
>> >>>> businesses, including small-holder farmers, tourism<br>
>> >>>> operators, small-scale<br>
>> >>>> industry and services providers in almost any business<br>
>> >>>> sector.<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> About KIF<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> The Kenya Information and Communication Technology<br>
>> >>>> Federation (KIF)<br>
>> >>>> represents the ICT industry with Government and with<br>
>> >>>> private sector bodies<br>
>> >>>> e.g. Kenya Association of Manufacturers and Kenya Private<br>
>> >>>> Sector Alliance<br>
</div></div>>> >>>> KEPSA <<a href="http://www.kepsa.org/" target="_blank">http://www.kepsa.org/</a>>. KIF is a legally<br>
<div><div></div><div class="Wj3C7c">>> >>>> registered membership based<br>
>> >>>> Association, made up of trade associations and professional<br>
>> >>>> bodies within<br>
>> >>>> the national ICT industry, as well as commercial<br>
>> >>>> corporations. KIF has been<br>
>> >>>> accepted as the private sector voice of ICT by Government.<br>
>> >>>> KIF contributes<br>
>> >>>> ideas to key sectors like healthcare, education,<br>
>> >>>> agriculture, construction<br>
>> >>>> industry, and last but not least supports e-government<br>
>> >>>> development. KIF is a<br>
>> >>>> membership-driven organisation. Members bring issues on<br>
>> >>>> public policy and<br>
>> >>>> industry development forward for KIF to take action. Issues<br>
>> >>>> include:<br>
>> >>>> innovation promotion, education improvement, duties, taxes<br>
>> >>>> and levies, rural<br>
>> >>>> ICT investment. KIF has a strong and active network, with<br>
>> >>>> excellent<br>
>> >>>> relationships with all government agencies. KIF membership<br>
>> >>>> is open for<br>
>> >>>> market segment associations and individual companies.<br>
>> >>>> Membership charges are<br>
>> >>>> annual and based on company size. Contact:<br>
>> >>>> <a href="mailto:secretariat@kif.or.ke">secretariat@kif.or.ke</a>, 020<br>
>> >>>> 4440102<br>
>> >>>> MARCEL WERNER, Chairman, Kenya ICT Federation<br>
>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> please send any business mail to:<br>
>> >>>><br>
</div></div>>> >>>> Marcel.Werner@innovation-africa.or.ke_______________________________________________<br>
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>> >>>><br>
>> >>>> This message was sent to: <a href="mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com">jwalu@yahoo.com</a><br>
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>> >>>> <a href="http://40yahoo.com" target="_blank">40yahoo.com</a><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>><br>
>> >>> _______________________________________________<br>
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<div class="Ih2E3d">>> >><br>
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>> > People make a plan work, a plan alone seldom makes people work<br>
>> > (Confucius).<br>
<div class="Ih2E3d">>> ><br>
>><br>
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><br>
><br>
><br>
</div>> --<br>
> Joseph Manthi<br>
> CEO<br>
> MEO Ltd<br>
> <a href="http://www.meoltd.com" target="_blank">http://www.meoltd.com</a><br>
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</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Joseph Manthi<br>CEO<br>MEO Ltd<br><a href="http://www.meoltd.com">http://www.meoltd.com</a>