[kictanet] WhatsApp to Move Ahead with its Privacy Updates

Tue Feb 23 23:45:14 EAT 2021

Reposted as well and rephrased.

On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 11:44 PM Athar Ahmad Bhatti <atharab at gmail.com>
wrote:

> Dear Liz,
>
> That’s just it.
>
> Was it right for the Aboriginal American to be given beads and bear in
> place of land.
>
> The platform is worthless without data; such companies want us to waste
> time on non-issues such as privacy that will hamper research. The critical
> discussion should be on Data Sovereignty.
>
> In an open society such as Europe, enacting data protection rules is a
> step towards data sovereignty. They are opposed to companies
> encashing data without providing compensation to the origin.
>
> Data sovereignty needs to be discussed and debated on. Privacy is a
> meaningless endeavor.
>
> If I want to share information let’s say of my visit to the beach to seek
> the approval of my peers and someone takes my pictures and sells them then
> it’s a misuse of my intent. A similar law applies to plagiarism. If I get a
> quote by someone and use it as my own, it’s unethical even if you stored
> your book / journal on my platform. It’s like ACM taking all posted
> journals as their own property and selling them for money. The latter will
> never be allowed so why should social media platforms be allowed to commit
> a similar breach. They should focus on platform services not snooping and
> plagiarism.
>
> Back to my point of view, if you invite me to your home as a friend and I
> bring gifts; that does not give me the right to sell your furniture or open
> your house for others to see it.
>
> Look at the subject from a simple perspective and you will see that the
> platform is meant for communication and not invasion. The latter is a
> criminal activity.
>
> Thank you
>
> Sincerely
>
> Athar
>
> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 10:12 PM Liz Orembo <lizorembo at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Athar,
>>
>> How will FB like the idea of trading data? 🙃Already you're using their
>> platform for 'free'. Your data is how you pay for it.  Further, FB is ready
>> to let go small markets if they go too hard on them. Take the case of
>> Australia where they wanted to journalists to be paid for their news feed.
>>
>> Methinks one way we can have an impact is to harmonize our data
>> protection policies as region and act as one. Just like EU. What are the
>> possibilities?
>>
>> @jimmy. I like the public perspectives on privacy that you bring out. You
>> hit the nail on the head.
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 11:35 Athar Ahmad Bhatti via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>>> Dear All,
>>>
>>> I pray you are well.
>>>
>>> My 2 cents worth is that privacy is an inherent right of every human
>>> being but you give up this right when you share yourself on a public
>>> platform.
>>>
>>> The only problem is that the consolidation of that data will result in
>>> financial benefit for the social media platform. In this regard social
>>> media platforms are like banks that store our money (data), this is then
>>> consolidated into a larger capital (knowledge) position and given to
>>> borrowers as loans (marketing and research  related). Platforms such as
>>> these will also create a reality of what the world is for AI systems.
>>>
>>> The solution to this problem will be a mix of personal renumeration,
>>> taxation and other innovative models. In this regard the question that
>>> should be answered is legally in Kenya does data of a person belong to that
>>> individual or the state (money for instance can be taken back by the state
>>> or its value destroyed eg the old 1000 ksh note). We shared a lot of data
>>> in huduma and other initiatives; is this data now sovereign property under
>>> trust ? Can it be traded for investment into the country.
>>>
>>> We may find out that all data is state owned. Then Kenya should benefit
>>> from its trade.
>>>
>>> We need only embark on initiatives where these platforms use a
>>> distributed data repository system ensuring that they keep that data in
>>> country. It would result in the use of the technology city initiatives
>>> thus benefiting growth of this endeavor. A block chain consent system
>>> could be created with a 2-3 way consent on availability of that data for
>>> trading purpose. The country would have the ability to consent approval for
>>> sharing this data for trading or not.
>>>
>>> The best part is that these sovereignty mechanisms can be initiated at
>>> any point. Data is like the news and only valuable as long as it’s ‘fresh’.
>>>
>>> Mine was only to suggest as a Kenyan.
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>> Sincerely
>>>
>>> Athar
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 10:59 AM Jimmy Gitonga via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Liz, Ali and Barrack,
>>>>
>>>> I would add that what I have seen from Facebook is that they "smelt
>>>> blood in the water" during the pandemic. There is a bigger picture here.
>>>>
>>>>    1. Those of us who are “BBC" (Born Before Computers) can talk of
>>>>    walking away and life continues. But any urbanite born after Windows 95
>>>>    does not have the “luxury”. The pandemic simply made digital interaction
>>>>    “essential"
>>>>    2. Facebook has a collective “population” across their platforms of
>>>>    almost 3 billion. Let’s take 10% and assume these will do commerce on their
>>>>    platforms. That is a market the size of the USA or Europe north of the Alps
>>>>    or Nigeria combined with South Africa.
>>>>    3. For developers, Facebook has introduced things like the *Instagram
>>>>    Content Publishing API, *which means "Instagram Business accounts
>>>>    can schedule and publish posts to their Instagram Feeds from third-party
>>>>    platforms.” Think integration with ERPs and CRMs.
>>>>    4. And just like Microsoft and lately AWS, Facebook has created
>>>>    Facebook Developer certification so that one can be a technical expert in
>>>>    Facebook marketing products. <- A job right there that did not exist six
>>>>    months ago.
>>>>
>>>> Just keep in mind the market being addressed here. The train left the
>>>> station, as Barrack said. The potential money the "post BBC” generation on
>>>> FB and other platforms are likely to make, considering people like Elsa
>>>> Majimbo <https://linktr.ee/ElsaMajimbo>, are too tantalising to turn
>>>> away from. These are the choices this generation has. Either one starves in
>>>> a country run by thieves or jumps onto the digital platforms and make a
>>>> life for oneself. Elsa’s dad told her that this “Internet” thing is getting
>>>> in the way of her studies, considering that she is quite smart. Guess how
>>>> that conversation went ...
>>>>
>>>> Privacy, what privacy? Even if I say I want the contents of my emails
>>>> to be “private” on Gmail, what I are really concerned about is how Google
>>>> uses the access to my information in my InBox and how it “secures" it
>>>> against leakage from "unauthorised” parties. Data “privacy” is concerned
>>>> with "how data is shared with third parties.”  What people are interested
>>>> in is the security or protection of data, not privacy in the “private”
>>>> sense. A vast majority on Facebook platforms are going nowhere. Apple is
>>>> playing the same game here with their “hardware” platforms, just more
>>>> subtle.
>>>>
>>>> *Jimmy Gitonga*
>>>> @Afrowave
>>>> Web : Motion
>>>> On 23 Feb 2021, 09:31 +0300, kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke, wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Message: 1
>>>>
>>>> Date: Tue, 23 Feb 2021 09:29:52 +0300
>>>>
>>>> From: Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke>
>>>>
>>>> To: Liz Orembo <lizorembo at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] WhatsApp to Move Ahead with its Privacy
>>>>
>>>> Updates
>>>>
>>>> Message-ID:
>>>>
>>>> <CAPjmBy0ht03f=Q=hCPq-DH_nM7y3OYt4nj4sf+QhxX0XGAr0aQ at mail.gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Liz
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> We have none. We gave away our rights. The only remedy is to walk
>>>> away...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> *Ali Hussein*
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Digital Transformation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>>>
>>>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
>>>>
>>>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>>>>
>>>> organizations that I work with.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 9:12 AM Liz Orembo <lizorembo at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> > Ali and Barrack, I totally agree with you.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> > Lakini why are we only treating it as a matter of individual consent?
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> > Will this become a new trend where tech monopolies will be baiting
>>>> people
>>>>
>>>> > with free products to a point their platforms become essential
>>>> services,
>>>>
>>>> > then boom! New strange updates.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> > Where does consumer protection come in.
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> > On Tue, Feb 23, 2021, 08:57 Ali Hussein via kictanet <
>>>>
>>>> > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>> >> @Barrack Otieno <otieno.barrack at gmail.com> kabisa kaka.
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> So here's the thing. Wacha nifungue roho as GG keeps on saying.
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> I have been warning people for years that there's nothing for free.
>>>>
>>>> >> Facebook is a marketplace. And if you are not selling or buying you
>>>> are the
>>>>
>>>> >> product. Plain and simple. Kwani hio platform ilijengwe na nini (how
>>>> do you
>>>>
>>>> >> think the platform was built?) We have a saying in Kiswahili -
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> Ukiona vyaelea jua vimeundwa.
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> The choice is simple. Put up or ship out. If the Australian
>>>> government
>>>>
>>>> >> has buckled to the muscle of Facebook who are we?
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> :-)
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> *Ali Hussein*
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >> Digital Transformation
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> >> On Tue, Feb 23, 2021 at 8:51 AM Barrack Otieno <
>>>> otieno.barrack at gmail.com>
>>>>
>>>> >> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> >>
>>>>
>>>> >>> Morning Listers,
>>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>> >>> Looks like the train already left the station. I have noticed lately
>>>>
>>>> >>> that when i discuss a product on Whatsapp, i see it on my Facebook
>>>>
>>>> >>> timeline. On the flip side i don't mind the new development since
>>>> it makes
>>>>
>>>> >>> my decision making easier. Siri haiwekwi kwa simu ama namna gani
>>>> @Ali
>>>>
>>>> >>> Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke>
>>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>>
>>>> >>> Regards
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> kictanet mailing list
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>>>>
>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
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>>>>
>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>
>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> Thank you,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Best regards,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Athar Ahmad Bhatti
>>>
>>> +2547264881311
>>>
>>> Skype: atharab
>>>
>>> http://ke.linkedin.com/pub/athar-ahmad-bhatti/6/49b/374
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
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>>>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lizorembo%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>> --
>
> Thank you,
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
>
>
> Athar Ahmad Bhatti
>
> +2547264881311
>
> Skype: atharab
>
> http://ke.linkedin.com/pub/athar-ahmad-bhatti/6/49b/374
>
-- 

Thank you,

Best regards,

Athar Ahmad Bhatti

+2547264881311

Skype: atharab

http://ke.linkedin.com/pub/athar-ahmad-bhatti/6/49b/374
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