[kictanet] [should the victims be blamed? aren't platforms responsible as enablers and amplifiers?] Child marriage on facebook

Tue Nov 20 18:23:03 EAT 2018

 Hi Ali, good to see that we agree that point 5 is "worth reviewing" from a regulatory perspective and that you believe the platform should share part of the responsibility without resorting to blaming the victims (point 3 and closing paragraph). 
There is hope in utopia it seems! Just kidding... :-) What's with the ad-hominems though? I think you debate very well even when you don't rely on them.
On the other points... 
Point 1. That looks like a classic strawman argument, but nevertheless, have you considered that weaponized Social media potentially creates *multiple* mini/mega "Hitlers" all over the world? 
Point 2. Actually banks are now held responsible for facilitating/enabling money laundering, tax evasion and other financial crimes. Also you will recall recently a ship that was blown up by GoK for drug trafficking, basically a transporter penalized for its cargo. Do you have better examples?
Point 4. I don't think you really understood my argument, because your response looks out of context?
Enjoy your evening :-)Patrick.  

    On Tuesday, November 20, 2018, 5:54:49 PM GMT+3, Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke> wrote:  

 Patrick
There you go again.. This is not UTOPIA Boss.. :-) See my responses in line with your comments.

AliHussein

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AHK & Associates

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Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.

On Tue, Nov 20, 2018 at 5:44 PM Patrick A. M. Maina via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

 Some responses on this topic raise some interesting and important issues:
1. Do social media/messaging platform play a role in crime as amplifiers, enablers? - Possible. Though Hitler managed to kill off millions without social media. Let's be really careful not to heap blame on platforms where human nature plays a major role. Let's also not forget the other side. The good that some of these platforms do. 
2. Would crimes be harder to pull off if such platform could, through enhanced technical functionality (which might not necessarily be profitable), not be easily used for organized criminal purpose?  - Seriously? Crime and human trafficking was established hundreds of years ago. I never saw in history any one blaming the shipping lines and banks for perpetuating crime.
3. Does the community owe the platform a duty to report (as alluded here, such that the community can be blamed for platform misuse)? How much blame does the community share? - But of course. Not the platform but the community. You simply don't use the platform and not be responsible to the community. This however is something that can be shared between the platform and the community.
4. If indeed the community has a duty to help FB police its platform, will FB also share its revenues with the community seeing as they are its informal "employees" as well? Or are they only buddies in bad times but strangers in good times? - There's nothing for free boss. For example I pay a monthly subscription on Linkedin. For that I get extras like I can tweak my privacy settings, I can get analytics, I can see whose 'cyberstalking' me etc.. :-) Maybe a subscription model with its attendant benefits may be a good model to think about.. 
5. Do (or should) victims of social media enabled harm (including, say, businesses that lose sales due to chaos or governments whose economies are effectively sabotaged) have recourse against the platform owner? To what extent? Who else should own the problem and why? - Worth reviewing from a regulatory point of view.

I think the "deflect blame to the victims" script is unwise and could backfire. It would probably cause an uproar if used in more assertive parts of the world (i.e. in developed countries/regions).  - I don't think that should be the case. It should be a shared responsibility.

Good day listers,Patrick.

    On Tuesday, November 20, 2018, 3:52:31 PM GMT+3, Wainaina Mungai via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:  

 Hi,
Facebook as increased their staff significantly to help police what is posted. We may want not to blame the medium used and focus more on addressing the culture of marrying off children of any gender in any country. That way, we remain focussed on 'children's rights'.
The main offenders in this case are the "sellers" and "buyers" who took part in the auction.
In the end, the extent of regulation will depend on mutistakeholder negotiations on the balance between an open Internet for all and the need to protect privacy, security and human rights online. 
Wainaina
On 20 Nov 2018 15:18, evelyne wanjiku via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

Hi listers,
Im following a debate on cnn about this south sudanese 'baby bride' who was auctioned on fb. 
It brings me back to this question, who should regulate facebook? Some argue fb is too big to regulate all the things that happen on their platform. 
Who should police fb? Is it us? We have power to shut down our pages if we dont agree with what goes on in their...but we don't. Why?
Is it facebook? Do they care about being responsible especially in Africa?
Is it government? And just how far can the government reach? 
Or should we just relax and face the beginning of the  end by having an attitude of anything goes as long we have internet. 
Nice day everyone. 
Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android

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