[kictanet] Amend the law to enable end-to-end land transactions

Thu Apr 12 21:45:35 EAT 2018

We are here @Ali. Some of us don’t agree with LSK’s position. Yes public
participation wasn’t carried out and that was the original sin. However, we
should be fighting for a pause to consider public comment not bluntly
asking to go back to the analogue system. We can’t be seen to be fighting
digitization. But you understand why lawyers aren’t excited about some
digital developments eg smart lawyer platforms 😛

That being said, it must be understood that this digitization doesn’t solve
the inherent problems in conveyancing. Eg applying for a search, whether
physically or online, doesn’t guarantee you that there isn’t a copycat file
in the lands registry that could return misleading results. Again, we have
said on this list before that technology is not a magic wand. Our land
dishonesty problem won’t disappear because we’ve reduced the foot traffic
at Ardhi House. Also, picking up lessons from e-citizen, company
registration is online yes but you still need an ‘insider’ to help you use
the platform sometimes because applications may take time or the platform
returns error messages you wouldn’t be able to interpret on your own.

Ps: The previous administration peddled digitisation of the lands registry
too. Registries were closed severally to that effect. Perhaps there’s a
procurement question here. Was that mere scanning of records? Who did it?
Who is providing the services for the current process? How were they
engaged?

On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 at 21:30, Victor Kapiyo via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> The lawyers are here. We have been otherwise occupied trying to figure out
> how the new LMIS system works, in order to facilitate your conveyancing
> transactions!
>
> I wonder why some people want to digitise wakili's out of business,
> surely. Jameni? Can't we be left to 'eat' our legal fees in peace?
>
> Anyway, I think this is a good initiative. Trust me all lawyers want these
> land transactions to move quicker. Only that we need, for the benefits of
> our clients, to ensure there is proper due diligence done to ensure the
> integrity of land transactions. As you're all probably aware, land disputes
> form a huge chunk of cases in our courts - in fact there is an entire court
> (ELC) dedicated to land matters. We facilitate the conveyance process and
> do not as some suggest, act as obstacles to land transactions. In fact, the
> faster we transact, the sooner we get paid - so nobody wants delays. Delays
> are caused by inefficiency, corruption, bureacracy and disorganisation in
> some of the registries. It is also important to note that the property
> management framework is a very complex regime and whereas technology can
> enhance such processes, there are certain technicalities that require a
> legal mind to determine.
>
> That said, the challenge with this government project is that it was
> conceptualised, designed and implemented - i believe in secret - and
> without adequate participation of key stakeholders. How many people here
> knew of the details of the land registry digitisation process until the
> lands registry in Nairobi was closed to the public for the migration
> process last month? If the process was more participatory, and there was
> better communication and awareness, then i doubt we would be having the
> issues being raised here or in the articles. As lawyers, we want change.
> But the technocrats developing ICT systems for e-government need to be more
> transparent about such projects. As we speak there is no programme for
> training on using the system or a manual at best - save for a sketchy 1
> min. 29 sec. video and a paragraph with scanty instructions (see
> screenshot). Jameni. We must strive to implement such projects better, if
> the country has to get to where it needs to. The approaches to e-gov
> programmes need to be more holistic, strategic and systematic to ensure
> success. We deserve better, and we can do better.
>
> Ni hayo tu.
>
> *Victor Kapiyo*
> Partner | *Lawmark Partners LLP*
> Advocate of the High Court of Kenya, Commissioner for Oaths & Notary
> Public
> *Suite No. 8, Centro House, Westlands, Nairobi | **Web: www.lawmark.co.ke
> <http://www.lawmark.co.ke> *
> ====================================================
>
> *“Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude” Zig
> Ziglar*
>
> On 12 April 2018 at 18:05, Ali Hussein via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>> Where are the lawyers?
>>
>> Ukiwa upande huu utajitetee...Ukiwa upande ule... LOL
>>
>> *Ali Hussein*
>>
>> *Principal*
>>
>> *AHK & Associates*
>>
>>
>>
>> Tel: +254 713 601113
>>
>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>
>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>
>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>>
>>
>> 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,
>>
>> Chiromo Road, Westlands,
>>
>> Nairobi, Kenya.
>>
>> Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely
>> mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the
>> organizations that I work with.
>>
>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>>> @SMM,
>>>
>>> I am under 'Siekke' for the article ;-)
>>>
>>> I received a message from one of the lawyers who promised me a 'Class
>>> Suit'.  Am googling what that means and hope the digital lawyers onlist
>>> will come to my aid ;-)
>>>
>>> walu.
>>>
>>> On Thursday, April 12, 2018, 4:30:44 PM GMT+3, S.M. Muraya via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Correction: Article is via @JWalu
>>>
>>> https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-
>>> 4380642-lfxopw/index.html
>>> <https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-4380642-lfxopw/index.html>
>>>
>>> The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the
>>> lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land
>>> transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the inevitable
>>> disruption that technology is bringing.
>>>
>>>
>>> LSK argument for remaining analogue, being anti digital..
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/news/Ministry-switch-to-online-land-registry-sparks-row-with-LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/index.html
>>>
>>>
>>> LSK cites section 34 of the Advocates Act which states: “No unqualified
>>> person shall, either directly or indirectly, take instructions, draw or
>>> prepare any document or instrument relating to the conveyancing of
>>> property.”
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> https://www. businessdailyafrica.com/news/ Ministry-switch-to-online-
>>> land-registry-sparks-row-with- LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/ index.html
>>> <https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/news/Ministry-switch-to-online-land-registry-sparks-row-with-LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/index.html>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 3:55 PM, S.M. Muraya <murigi.muraya at gmail.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Noted well @walu
>>>
>>> The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the
>>> lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land
>>> transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the inevitable
>>> disruption that technology is bringing.
>>>
>>> https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-
>>> 4380642-lfxopw/index.html
>>> <https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-4380642-lfxopw/index.html>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> SMM
>>>
>>> *"Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one
>>> who takes a city." Prov 16:32*
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>>
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>
>
>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
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> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
-- 
*Mercy Mutemi, Advocate*.
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