<div><div dir="auto">We are here @Ali. Some of us don’t agree with LSK’s position. Yes public participation wasn’t carried out and that was the original sin. However, we should be fighting for a pause to consider public comment not bluntly asking to go back to the analogue system. We can’t be seen to be fighting digitization. But you understand why lawyers aren’t excited about some digital developments eg smart lawyer platforms 😛</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">That being said, it must be understood that this digitization doesn’t solve the inherent problems in conveyancing. Eg applying for a search, whether physically or online, doesn’t guarantee you that there isn’t a copycat file in the lands registry that could return misleading results. Again, we have said on this list before that technology is not a magic wand. Our land dishonesty problem won’t disappear because we’ve reduced the foot traffic at Ardhi House. Also, picking up lessons from e-citizen, company registration is online yes but you still need an ‘insider’ to help you use the platform sometimes because applications may take time or the platform returns error messages you wouldn’t be able to interpret on your own. </div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Ps: The previous administration peddled digitisation of the lands registry too. Registries were closed severally to that effect. Perhaps there’s a procurement question here. Was that mere scanning of records? Who did it? Who is providing the services for the current process? How were they engaged? </div><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div>On Thu, 12 Apr 2018 at 21:30, Victor Kapiyo via kictanet <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#20124d">The lawyers are here. We have been otherwise occupied trying to figure out how the new LMIS system works, in order to facilitate your conveyancing transactions!</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#20124d"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#20124d"><span style="color:rgb(32,18,77);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-variant-ligatures:normal;font-variant-caps:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-align:start;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-style:initial;text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">I wonder why some people want to digitise wakili's out of business, surely. Jameni? Can't we be left to 'eat' our legal fees in peace?</span><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#20124d"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#20124d">Anyway, I think this is a good initiative. Trust me all lawyers want these land transactions to move quicker. Only that we need, for the benefits of our clients, to ensure there is proper due diligence done to ensure the integrity of land transactions. As you're all probably aware, land disputes form a huge chunk of cases in our courts - in fact there is an entire court (ELC) dedicated to land matters. We facilitate the conveyance process and do not as some suggest, act as obstacles to land transactions. In fact, the faster we transact, the sooner we get paid - so nobody wants delays. Delays are caused by inefficiency, corruption, bureacracy and disorganisation in some of the registries. It is also important to note that the property management framework is a very complex regime and whereas technology can enhance such processes, there are certain technicalities that require a legal mind to determine. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#20124d"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#20124d">That said, the challenge with this government project is that it was conceptualised, designed and implemented - i believe in secret - and without adequate participation of key stakeholders. How many people here knew of the details of the land registry digitisation process until the lands registry in Nairobi was closed to the public for the migration process last month? If the process was more participatory, and there was better communication and awareness, then i doubt we would be having the issues being raised here or in the articles. As lawyers, we want change. But the technocrats developing ICT systems for e-government need to be more transparent about such projects. As we speak there is no programme for training on using the system or a manual at best - save for a sketchy 1 min. 29 sec. video and a paragraph with scanty instructions (see screenshot). Jameni. We must strive to implement such projects better, if the country has to get to where it needs to. The approaches to e-gov programmes need to be more holistic, strategic and systematic to ensure success. We deserve better, and we can do better. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#20124d"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;color:#20124d">Ni hayo tu. </div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="m_-5695902701293244163gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><b><font color="#20124d">Victor Kapiyo</font></b></span></div><div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif" size="1" color="#351c75">Partner | <i>Lawmark Partners LLP</i></font></div><div><font color="#000000"><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><font size="1">Advocate of the High Court of Kenya, </font></span><span style="font-family:tahoma,sans-serif"><font size="1">Commissioner for Oaths & Notary Public</font></span></font></div><div><font color="#000000" face="tahoma, sans-serif" size="1"><i>Suite No. 8, Centro House, Westlands, Nairobi | </i></font><i style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif;font-size:x-small">Web: <a href="http://www.lawmark.co.ke" target="_blank">www.lawmark.co.ke</a> </i></div><font face="tahoma, sans-serif" size="1" color="#000000">====================================================<br><i>“Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude” Zig Ziglar<br></i></font><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote"></div></div></div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote">On 12 April 2018 at 18:05, Ali Hussein via kictanet <span><<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div></div><div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_quote"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif">Where are the lawyers? </div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br></div><div style="font-family:georgia,serif">Ukiwa upande huu utajitetee...Ukiwa upande ule... LOL</div><img src="http://t.sidekickopen07.com/e1t/o/5/f18dQhb0S7ks8dDMPbW2n0x6l2B9gXrN7sKj6v4LNdFMd_KMKRbM7xW4Wzv6P2zlZNzW26tGP91k1H6H0?si=6190904865718272&pi=2181c21e-9a2f-4331-e14c-3bc4e6275c30&ti=null" style="display:none!important" height="1" width="1"><div class="gmail_extra"><span><br clear="all"><div><div class="m_-5695902701293244163m_-3715548346593769146gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><b><font face="georgia, serif" size="2">Ali
Hussein</font></b></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><b><font face="georgia, serif" size="2">Principal</font></b></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font face="georgia, serif" size="2"><b>AHK & Associates</b></font></p><font size="2">
</font><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size="2"> </font></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span>T<font size="2">el: +254 713 60<font size="2">1113</font></font><br></span></span></font></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span>Twitter: @AliHKassim</span><span></span></span></font></p><font size="2"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif">
</span></font><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span>Skype: abu-jomo</span></span></font></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span>LinkedIn: <a href="http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim" target="_blank">http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim</a></span><a href="http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"></span></a></span></font></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br></span></font></p><p style="font-size:small;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:georgia;color:black">13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:arial"></span></p><p style="font-size:small;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:georgia;color:black">Chiromo Road, Westlands,</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:arial"></span></p><p style="font-size:small;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt;background-image:initial;background-position:initial;background-repeat:initial"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:georgia;color:black">Nairobi, Kenya.</span></p><font size="2"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span><br><font size="1">Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.</font></span></span></font><span style="font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif";font-size:11pt"></span><span style="font-size:11pt"></span>
<span style="font-family:"Baskerville Old Face","serif""></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br></span><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="m_-5695902701293244163h5">On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 5:57 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet <span><<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="m_-5695902701293244163h5"><div><div style="font-family:Helvetica Neue,Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:16px"><div></div>
<div>@SMM,</div><div><br></div><div>I am under 'Siekke' for the article ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>I received a message from one of the lawyers who promised me a 'Class Suit'. Am googling what that means and hope the digital lawyers onlist will come to my aid ;-)</div><div><br></div><div>walu.</div><div><br></div>
<div id="m_-5695902701293244163m_-3715548346593769146m_-8253720683160646295ydp75b9b150yahoo_quoted_3786653998" class="m_-5695902701293244163m_-3715548346593769146m_-8253720683160646295ydp75b9b150yahoo_quoted">
<div style="font-family:'Helvetica Neue',Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px;color:#26282a"><div><div class="m_-5695902701293244163m_-3715548346593769146h5">
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On Thursday, April 12, 2018, 4:30:44 PM GMT+3, S.M. Muraya via kictanet <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:
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</div></div><div><div><div class="m_-5695902701293244163m_-3715548346593769146h5"><div id="m_-5695902701293244163m_-3715548346593769146m_-8253720683160646295ydp75b9b150yiv9912687328"><div><div>Correction: Article is via @JWalu<div><br clear="none"></div><div><div><a shape="rect" href="https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-4380642-lfxopw/index.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560- 4380642-lfxopw/index.html</a></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline">The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the inevitable disruption that technology is bringing.</span><br clear="none" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255)"></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;text-decoration-color:initial;font-size:small;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);float:none;display:inline"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>LSK argument for remaining analogue, being anti digital..</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">
</span><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-color:initial"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><a shape="rect" href="https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/news/Ministry-switch-to-online-land-registry-sparks-row-with-LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/index.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/news/Ministry-switch-to-online-land-registry-sparks-row-with-LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/index.html</a></span><span> </span></span></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-color:initial"><br clear="none"></div><div style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-color:initial">LSK cites section 34 of the Advocates Act which states: “No unqualified person shall, either directly or indirectly, take instructions, draw or prepare any document or instrument relating to the conveyancing of property.”</div></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">
<br clear="none" class="m_-5695902701293244163m_-3715548346593769146m_-8253720683160646295ydp75b9b150yiv9912687328gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"></span></div><div>
<br clear="none" class="m_-5695902701293244163m_-3715548346593769146m_-8253720683160646295ydp75b9b150yiv9912687328m_-8672198037791578421gmail-Apple-interchange-newline"><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><a shape="rect" href="https://www.businessdailyafrica.com/news/Ministry-switch-to-online-land-registry-sparks-row-with-LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/index.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www. businessdailyafrica.com/news/ Ministry-switch-to-online- land-registry-sparks-row-with- LSK/539546-4376104-i3oh05/ index.html</a></span>
<br clear="none" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-color:initial">
<br clear="none"></div></div></div></div><div class="m_-5695902701293244163m_-3715548346593769146m_-8253720683160646295ydp75b9b150yiv9912687328gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="m_-5695902701293244163m_-3715548346593769146m_-8253720683160646295ydp75b9b150yiv9912687328yqt1863608247" id="m_-5695902701293244163m_-3715548346593769146m_-8253720683160646295ydp75b9b150yiv9912687328yqt51343"><div class="m_-5695902701293244163m_-3715548346593769146m_-8253720683160646295ydp75b9b150yiv9912687328gmail_quote">On Thu, Apr 12, 2018 at 3:55 PM, S.M. Muraya <span><<a shape="rect" href="mailto:murigi.muraya@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">murigi.muraya@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="m_-5695902701293244163m_-3715548346593769146m_-8253720683160646295ydp75b9b150yiv9912687328gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div>
<span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">Noted well @walu</span><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline"><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-color:initial;float:none;display:inline">The discussion the Lands ministry should have been having with the lawyers is about how to amend the law to enable end-to-end land transactions rather than how to protect the lawyers from the inevitable disruption that technology is bringing.</span><br clear="none" style="color:rgb(34,34,34);font-family:arial,sans-serif;font-size:small;font-style:normal;font-weight:400;letter-spacing:normal;text-indent:0px;text-transform:none;white-space:normal;word-spacing:0px;background-color:rgb(255,255,255);text-decoration-color:initial">
<br clear="none"><div><a shape="rect" href="https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-4380642-lfxopw/index.html" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560- 4380642-lfxopw/index.html</a></div></div></div>
</blockquote></div></div><br clear="none"><br clear="all"><div><br clear="none"></div>-- <br clear="none"><div class="m_-5695902701293244163m_-3715548346593769146m_-8253720683160646295ydp75b9b150yiv9912687328gmail_signature"><div><div><div><div>SMM</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><span style="line-height:13px;color:rgb(0,19,32);font-family:Trebuchet,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif;text-align:justify;background-color:rgb(253,254,255)"><span style="background-color:rgb(253,254,255)"><span style="line-height:20px"><font size="1"><b>"Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one who takes a city." Prov 16:32</b></font></span><span style="font-size:14px;background-color:rgb(253,254,255)"><br clear="none"></span></span></span></div></div></div></div></div>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
<br>
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
<br></blockquote></div></div></div>
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<br>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
<br>
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
</blockquote></div></div>-- <br><div dir="ltr" class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><b>Mercy Mutemi, Advocate</b>. <br></span></div></div><div><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br></span></div><div><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><b><i><br></i></b></span></div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div>