[kictanet] ICT Authority, not Treasury, should oversee IFMIS

Thu Jan 19 15:28:29 EAT 2017

ISO 27001 was actually in the performance contracts of state corporations a few years back. It used to be the next step after ISO 9001 certification requirements in the performance contract.

Also IT departments of organizations that are ISO 9001 (QMS) certified are audited using ISO 27001 controls. 

Regards,

Alex

Sent from Windows Mail

From: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Sent: ‎Thursday‎, ‎January‎ ‎19‎, ‎2017 ‎3‎:‎20‎ ‎PM
To: 'Watila Alex - Current'
Cc: Barrack Otieno

We also have numerous Standards such as the ISO 27000 series available
at Kenya Bureau of Standards that address most of the human and
security issues at the cost of a crate of milk, so far it appears only
the Communications Authority has embraced the same, time for this
standards to added to the Perfomance contracting framework.

Regards

On 1/19/17, S.M. Muraya via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> @Walu It should be a KICTA (not Treasury) event (hopefully in Nairobi).
>
> How else do they prove they are an "Authority" in providing Cyber security
> and transparency in Government?
>
> SMM
>
> *"Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one
> who takes a city." Prov 16:32*
>
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 1:15 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>> @Muritu,
>>
>> ICT Governance Framework?...spot on. The software is innocent. How you
>> shape the people, processes and procedures around it so as to have checks
>> and balances is what makes or breaks software.
>>
>> This is often quite obvious at the political level i.e Executive,
>> Legislature and Judiciary relationships,  but rarely understood nor
>> practiced within the ICT ecosystem. I alway recommend the COBIT framework
>> <http://www.isaca.org/knowledge-center/cobit/pages/overview.aspx> for
>> those keen on ICT Governance issues.
>>
>> COBIT - IT Governance Framework - Infor...
>> <http://www.isaca.org/knowledge-center/cobit/pages/overview.aspx>
>>
>>
>> @Muraya, organize an IFMIS forum and invite me. Would be glad to give my
>> fraction of bitcoins :-)
>>
>> walu.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* James Muritu via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> *To:* jwalu at yahoo.com
>> *Cc:* James Muritu <james.muritu at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, January 19, 2017 12:31 PM
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority, not Treasury, should oversee
>> IFMIS
>>
>> Interesting conversations going on here. In simple terms, what IFIMIS
>> lacks is a Governance Framework. The "software component" of an ERP is
>> just
>> one drop in the ocean. People+Processes+Operating Procedures+Decision
>> Rights are the bigger drops. Am currently reviewing a similar system in a
>> Kenya based corporation and for almost 2 years, the system had been
>> blamed
>> for all the wrong reasons. The ultimate results, revealed more loopholes
>> outside the actual software.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 19, 2017 at 12:01 PM, waudo siganga via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>> Thank Walu. I'll wait fro the coffee...
>> W.
>>
>> On Thu, Jan 19, 2017, at 11:33 AM, Walubengo J wrote:
>>
>> @Daktari Siganga,
>>
>> I was the ICT Director for our university for 5yrs and managed both the
>> University Network &  ERP - but I dont say :-)
>>
>> We switch between the classroom and ICT operations like that. So I kinda
>> have both the academic and practical view of these things
>>
>> Anyway, you are right in that the IT expert(Superuser) should NOT  be a
>> normal  'Finance' /'HR'/Procurement/ or other regualr user of the ERP.
>> However, the IT guys still assign these roles and privileges to the
>> various
>> functional users. i.e. they must grant rights to the Finance/HR/ and
>> other
>> Directors to execute their work within the ERP.
>>
>> Different implementations (company policy) maybe that this is delegated
>> to
>> the various functional heads who can then subsequently grant
>> privileges/access rights down through their departments.
>>
>> But this is NOT ideal since you lose the segregation of duties where you
>> want the Functional heads(e.g. Finance Director) to make the
>> access-rights
>> requests IN WRITING, and have SOMEONE ELSE implement that request.
>>
>> This is the 'control' auditors are looking for when auditing the
>> information system later on - in terms of checks and balances. Such a
>> control is what leads to the questions like:-
>> a) Who within the ERP system has privileges that were not formally
>> requested for in writing? Or
>> b) Who within the ERP system has more privileges than what was formally
>> requested for?
>> c) Who within the ERP exists but has no supporting access request from
>> the
>> Functional head?
>> d) etc, etc.
>>
>> Even if the IT expert abused his/her superuser privileges by granting
>> themselves some user rights within the Financial module, they will be
>> outed
>> by the above audit process.
>>
>> Denying the IT expert the ability to grant access rights within the ERP
>> and passing the same to the functional heads does not solve the problem
>> of
>> abuse. The functional heads can simply become the new kingpins. Only
>> segregation of duty cures the problem of abuse.
>>
>> But we can meet over coffee and share the pros and cons of the various
>>  implementations :-)
>>
>> walu.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> From: waudo siganga <emailsignet at mailcan.com>
>> To: Walubengo J <jwalu at yahoo.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke >
>> Sent: Thursday, January 19, 2017 10:36 AM
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority, not Treasury, should oversee IFMIS
>>
>> Hi Walu - I can see from your comments that you have never worked in a
>> finance environment. For secure setup there is no way "IT guys must then
>> translate x, y & z function into the appropriate access levels for that
>> accountant within the system". Simply put a person who is a trained IT
>> expert knows too much about how the system works and therefore cannot be
>> assigned access administration. The overall person for access admin is a
>> "super-user" or "Chief Security Officer"or a title in that direction.
>> This
>> super user assigns access rights to users, such as ability to add,delete,
>> update, edit, view, etc records. To assign these rights in practically
>> all
>> IT systems the super user must himself have those same rights, otherwise
>> he/she cannot assign them to other users. A system where a super-user is
>> an
>> IT expert is a very weak system. The IT expert should never have ability
>> to
>> enter a system and change records. If you analyse the IFMIS problem you
>> will realise that it is not a problem of IT experts infiltrating the
>> system. It is just password misuse by ordinary users. At least I agree
>> with
>> you on one thing - IT expertise role and password administration must
>> never
>> be put in the same office. In most banks and finance environments the
>> super-user function is undertaken by the CEO or a very senior executive
>> who
>> is OUTSIDE the IT function.
>>
>> THERE IS NO PROBLEM WITH IFMIS. The users, as is normal in any IT system,
>> are the weakest link. It is like having pilots who are busy with
>> corruption
>> to fly a plane then when the plane crashes we say there was a problem
>> with
>> the plane.
>>
>> W.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017, at 02:54 PM, Walubengo J wrote:
>>
>> @Dr Siganga, my comments below:
>>
>> >>1. Hi Walu - I do not agree with you that access administration
>> (passwords) is a technical function. In most cases passwords just mimic
>> authorization structures that pre-exist in a manual system.
>> >>>
>> Response:Yes and NO.
>> Yes passwords and their access levels are controls that mimic the
>> authorization levels of the manual system. However, their implementation
>> in
>> an ideal environment should be segregated.   E.g the finance director
>> should say in writing: 'I need my accountant to do x, y & z function' .
>> The IT guys must then translate x, y & z function into the appropriate
>> access levels for that accountant within the system.
>>
>> Finance retains the administrative oversight in terms of triggering the
>> password request and profiling the access levels desired. IT retains the
>> technical function of implementing the same. Never put these two roles in
>> one office. Shida mingi inajiletea.
>>
>> >>2. I also differ with your suggestion that it is the work of technical
>> people to enforce, check or review system controls. That should be the
>> function of an independent auditor.
>> >>
>> RESPONSE: Yes and NO.
>> Yes, independent or external auditors (hopefully Information System
>> Auditors) do review the  technical controls. But this is often an annual
>> exercise. So serious organisation do not wait for a year to be told their
>> controls were not effective. They have INTERNAL information system
>> auditors
>> (who are technical) to continuously  monitor/enforce that these IT
>> controls
>> are in place, working and/or need to be updated. Other organisation may
>> allocate this role to the Information Security Officer, either way these
>> are ICT technical chaps.
>>
>> walu.
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> From: waudo siganga <emailsignet at mailcan.com>
>> To: Walubengo J <jwalu at yahoo.com>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke >
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 1:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority, not Treasury, should oversee IFMIS
>>
>> Hi Walu - I do not agree with you that access administration (passwords)
>> is a technical function. In most cases passwords just mimic authorization
>> structures that pre-exist in a manual system. It is very important that
>> the
>> access of technical people to a system, especially a financial one, be as
>> inhibited as possible. Those who access the system should only be capable
>> of doing the functions they would perform in a manual system. To enhance
>> security of the system, access administration should be overseen by a
>> most
>> senior person who is NOT trained to do technical work on the system.
>>
>> I also differ with your suggestion that it is the work of technical
>> people
>> to enforce, check or review system controls. That should be the function
>> of
>> an independent auditor.
>>
>> Overall I think there is much misunderstanding about IFMIS. The problem
>> is
>> not technical; it is administrative. Specifically access administration
>> (passwords).
>>
>> W.
>>
>> On Wed, Jan 18, 2017, at 01:06 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet wrote:
>>
>> Grace B via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke > wrote>>>
>> Second, the problem with IFMIS, it appears is a lack of commitment to
>> simple values such as integrity and prudent stewardship of public funds.
>> What guarantee wold we have that ICTA would be different from Treasury?
>>
>> >>
>> Segregation of duties solves this.  Treasury continues being the Process
>> owner, but surrenders the Technical leadership of the system/ERP to ICT
>> Authority. So if it is a case of passwords and their use, expiry amongst
>> other technical issues, we know it is ICT Authority to manage (and take
>> blame).
>>
>> It is often a confusing and thin line. The line between Administrative
>> and
>> Technical authority.
>>
>> But you can look at it in terms of the President's Security detail.   The
>> President maybe the (Administrative) boss of his security detail, but the
>> President can never tell his security detail HOW to guard him or what
>> weapons to use or how many guards he needs, where to position them etc.
>>
>> These are TECHNICAL issues that the President cannot and should never
>> pretend to be dictating on since they lie squarely within the
>> NIS/Inspector
>> General domain. The moment NIS start taking technical instructions from
>> the
>> President, is the moment our security system will collapse.
>>
>> If we get this seperation of authority right, we solve the IFMIS puzzle.
>>
>> walu.
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> From: Grace B via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke >
>> To: jwalu at yahoo.com
>> Cc: Grace B <nmutungu at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Wednesday, January 18, 2017 7:11 AM
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority, not Treasury, should oversee IFMIS
>>
>> Interesting discussion. There are those who would look at IFMIS as a
>> public finance management issue as opposed to an ICT one but this is not
>> really count when giving management mandate to either Treasury or ICTA as
>> long as the objectives of PFM (Article 201 of Katiba) are met.
>> One of the issues voiced about IFMIS since devolution/new Constitution
>> has
>> been the problems experienced by county governments and other independent
>> organs eg commissions in accessing funds in a timely manner. (We assume
>> that Executive has not had too many problems assessing funds and may have
>> indeed been facilitating leakage)
>> One issue with transferring the responsibility of maintaining IFMIS to
>> ICTA, it seems would be that there could be few differences between ICTA
>> and Treasury. First, both are Executive institutions that may support
>> devolved and independent structures in line with the soft policy
>> direction
>> of the government of the day. Second, the problem with IFMIS, it appears
>> is
>> a lack of commitment to simple values such as integrity and prudent
>> stewardship of public funds. What guarantee wold we have that ICTA would
>> be
>> different from Treasury?
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> 2017-01-18 5:54 GMT+03:00 Ali Hussein via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke >:
>>
>> Barrack
>>
>> We are saying the same thing really.. Let's assume that the ICTA is the
>> ICT Department of the Government (which I doubt it is equipped to execute
>> that mandate) then 'managing' here really means providing support to the
>> system.
>>
>> I think it's time the Government considers the role of Chief Information
>> Officer to really manage the strategic thrust of all ICT initiatives
>> across
>> ministries. The CIO can then be held accountable for overall efficiency
>> and
>> security of all Government ICT Systems. This CIO needs to report directly
>> to the Chief Executive Officer (President) of the country. Now, that
>> person
>> could be seconded or be a part of the ICTA with a doted line
>> responsibility
>> to the CS, MOICT...
>>
>> Ultimately the overall responsibility of how well our Government ICT
>> Systems work lies squarely on the CEO's desk. Look no further.
>>
>> Ali Hussein
>> Principal
>> Hussein & Associates
>> +254 0713 601113
>>
>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>> Skype: abu-jomo
>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin. com/in/alihkassim
>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>> "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
>> habit."  ~ Aristotle
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 17 Jan 2017, at 11:27 PM, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke > wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi Ali,
>>
>> ERP grew from MRP (Material Resource Planning which was a means of
>> planning and allocating resources in Factories. The difference between
>> the two is that MRP's were stand alone systems whereas ERP's are
>> modular and have more functionality. From an evolution perspective ,
>> it would be ideal to manage IFMIS from Ministry of Finance since they
>> are the custodians of the treasury and normally allocate resources
>> through the budgeting process. From a Project Management perspective,
>> it would be ideal to manage IFMIS from ICTA since it is the
>> specialized agency meant to manage government technology investments.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> On 1/17/17, S.M. Muraya via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke >
>> wrote:
>>
>> Doubt Treasury economists and accountants are well placed to provide
>> Cyber
>>
>> Security :)
>>
>>
>>
>> We need the ICT Authority to configure enterprise wide data protection
>>
>> (limiting theft of passwords & access to IFMIS).
>>
>>
>>
>> In 2016, the UN ranked the UK as # 1 in providing digital services.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://publicadministration. un.org/egovkb/en-us/Reports/
>> UN-E-Government-Survey-2016
>> <https://publicadministration.un.org/egovkb/en-us/Reports/UN-E-Government-Survey-2016>
>>
>>
>>
>> The Government Digital Service (GDS) is part of their Cabinet Office, not
>>
>> their Treasury.
>>
>>
>>
>> https://www.gov.uk/government/ publications/govuk-pay/govuk- pay
>> <https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/govuk-pay/govuk-pay>
>>
>>
>>
>> Their Treasury is consulted about the payment system  👆🏾  the GDS
>>
>> continues to build.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> SMM
>>
>>
>>
>> *"Better a patient person than a warrior, one with self-control than one
>>
>> who takes a city." Prov 16:32*
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 9:45 PM, Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> I fundamentally disagree with this assertion.
>>
>>
>>
>> First,y, the role of a CIO is to support the enterprise. I have never
>>
>> heard in my life of an ERP Director. This is just adding a superfluous
>>
>> layer of useless bureaucracy.
>>
>>
>>
>> The owner of an ERP is the business with each department taking ownership
>>
>> of their components:-
>>
>>
>>
>> 1. Financials - CFO
>>
>> 2. CRM (Commercial/marketing/sales)
>>
>> 3. Procurement - Procurement which sometimes comes under Finance
>>
>>
>>
>> Etc.
>>
>>
>>
>> The CIO takes ownership to ensure that the company is well oiled to
>>
>> execute on its mandate. This in my humble opinion goes beyond ERPs and
>>
>> talks to aligning the Technology Strategy with the Business Strategy. For
>>
>> example in the banking sector where increasingly the more savvy banks are
>>
>> taking a 'Platform Thinking' approach. This allows partners to plug into
>>
>> their core technology through APIs to enable them extend capabilities and
>>
>> hence offerings to their customers.
>>
>>
>>
>> The role of a CIO has fundamentally changed to speak to the need for
>>
>> using
>>
>> Technology as an accelerator to successful business models.
>>
>>
>>
>> Secondly, I don't see how the ICT Authority would be better in managing
>>
>> the monster that is IFMIS. Let them first learn the basics of
>>
>> communicating
>>
>> effectively with the community before taking on this elephant in the
>>
>> room.
>>
>>
>>
>> *Ali Hussein*
>>
>> *Principal*
>>
>> *Hussein & Associates*
>>
>> +254 0713 601113
>>
>>
>>
>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>
>>
>>
>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>
>>
>>
>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/ alihkassim
>> <http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim>
>>
>>
>>
>> "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a
>>
>> habit."  ~ Aristotle
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>>
>>
>> On 17 Jan 2017, at 6:42 PM, S.M. Muraya via kictanet <
>>
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> Interesting comments...
>>
>>
>>
>> ICT Authority, not Treasury, should oversee IFMIS
>>
>>
>>
>> http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/ blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560-
>> <http://www.nation.co.ke/oped/blogs/dot9/walubengo/2274560->
>>
>> 3520560-5j04aq/index.html
>>
>>
>>
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>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>> development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>> bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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>> mailman/options/kictanet/jwalu%40yahoo.com
>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>> development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>> bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kictanet mailing list
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>>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/
>> mailman/options/kictanet/murigi.muraya%40gmail.com
>>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>> development.
>>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>> bandwidth,
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>
>

-- 
Barrack O. Otieno
+254721325277
+254733206359
Skype: barrack.otieno
PGP ID: 0x2611D86A

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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.

KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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