[kictanet] ict practitioners bill is back

Tue Dec 19 10:45:48 EAT 2017

Kevin

Chief,

On a light note,

You went to MIT or Stanford by any chance?

Because your tone, wow.

On Dec 19, 2017 10:42 AM, "Kevin Kamonye via kictanet" <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> Good Morning Waithaka,
>
> As I respond, I will repeat that we need to wait to see the actual bill
> that the CS will propose. Let us at least give him the level of good faith
> and trust that he has earned through his record, most of which is in the
> public domain for everyone to see.
>
> Secondly, yes I am very cautious of government regulation. Maybe I can
> trust CS Mucheru and his team, but I do not know who will be in-charge
> tomorrow. If this regulation will have to happen, and I can tell you that
> if the CS says it is going to happen just start preparing yourself for the
> qualification interview, then I am willing to engage the ministry in a
> constructive manner while the window to do so is still open. Let us come up
> with the best possible balance that serves all.
>
> Now, what you are proposing is short-circuiting that process and
>> pre-qualifying people. Why would you want to repeat what the industry has
>> already done? Cisco, Juniper, Huawei, Nokia, Siemens have each their own
>> certifications of Advanced Network Engineering. Why would you want to
>> duplicate that? Would such an organization even have the skills to
>> interrogate every possible certification in the market?
>
>
> I am not proposing any such thing. First of all who is Cisco, Juniper,
> Huawei? These are vendors who in this context provide training and
> certification for their specific products. This is good. Take these
> certifications to the institute, answer a few relevant questions and earn
> yet another certificate of approval.
>
> On the other hand, are the exams of these vendors strictly administered in
> such a manner that you would have complete faith in anybody holding any of
> their certifications? Not really unless you are talking about someone who
> has sat for their lab examinations. As for these other levels, google "exam
> dumps, actual tests, brain dumps" to have an idea of what I am talking
> about. I know of people whose CVs and LinkedIN profiles have certifications
> that exhaust the entire alphabet yet they can deliver very little.
>
> Aside from that, what if I cannot afford these foreign certifications or
> do not want to undertake them for one reason or the other. Who says we
> cannot build our own mechanism of certifying ourselves and we do it so well
> such that all other Africans will aspire to our standards. Or maybe even
> the whole world.
>
> If you are not up to the challenge of the work that would need to be put
> in, then let others try to do so. I am so fired up about this one to the
> point that if for one reason or the other the Ministry decides to cancel
> this bill, I will lobby in any way that I can to compel them to deliver on
> this institute.
>
> Regards,
>
> Kevin
>
> On 19 December 2017 at 02:55, Ngigi Waithaka <ngigi at at.co.ke> wrote:
>
>> Kevin,
>>
>> Let us separate this into two:
>> 1. Products
>> 2. Services
>>
>> Reviewing products is a lot easier, as you got the final product, can try
>> the trial version and despite whoever has built it, you can then come up
>> with a conclusion of whether its fit for purpose.
>>
>> Now, how do you review Services? You asked how would I tell you are an
>> advanced Network Engineer? I'd ask for your qualifications, certifications,
>> experience, referrals would also shoot you questions around what I need you
>> to do.
>>
>> Now, what you are proposing is short-circuiting that process and
>> pre-qualifying people. Why would you want to repeat what the industry has
>> already done? Cisco, Juniper, Huawei, Nokia, Siemens have each their own
>> certifications of Advanced Network Engineering. Why would you want to
>> duplicate that? Would such an organization even have the skills to
>> interrogate every possible certification in the market?
>>
>> And that is just Networks... Extrapolate that to Software products which
>> are in their thousands (Oracle, SAP, A1, MS, IBM, SAS, Redhat, HP etc) each
>> with its own Certifications and Requirements and you want to pre-qualify
>> people for that as well?
>>
>> Add Software Development, more than 30 possible languages we develop in,
>> each with more than 30 levels of different knowledge levels / permutations
>> and you want to pre-qualify that as well?
>>
>> Unless this is where our projected 1million jobs will come from, I really
>> don't see anyone in Kenya and even globally with such resources and time to
>> undertake such an exercise and one that wouldn't add any value beyond whats
>> currently generally available in the market.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 7:08 PM, Kevin Kamonye <kevin.kamonye at gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Waithaka,
>>>
>>> Perhaps let us not judge that the proposed bill by the CS to be a duck
>>> before we have even seen or heard from it. Also, the only reason why I am
>>> entertaining this bill is that unlike the previous one, is that we are
>>> being invited to put forward constructive proposals.
>>>
>>> Now, what are some of the professions we have in the software industry?
>>>> 1. Programmers / developers
>>>> 2. System Administrators
>>>> 3. Database Administrators
>>>> 4. Enterprise Architects
>>>> 5. UX Designers
>>>> Now, try making a common regulation for those 5 out of a possible
>>>> hundreds...
>>>
>>>
>>> If we are talking about a peer reviewed process by committees of
>>> technologists from varied backgrounds then establishing whether a person is
>>> qualified to undertake the tasks that they claim proficiency in would be a
>>> walk in the park.
>>>
>>> For instance, if you came to me and claimed to be a network engineer /
>>> system admin I would be able to ask you a few pertinent questions that
>>> would settle the matter very quickly.
>>>
>>> If beyond that you wanted to claim that you are advanced/expert/arch
>>> level, then that would be between you and your prospective employer
>>> (broadly used to cover contract/consultancy services). You would need to
>>> provide them with the relevant certifications from the various vendors.
>>>
>>> In lieu of this, it will either be up to you to do some social
>>> networking and get the recommendation of a certified person at that level
>>> or even better and as happens currently, you will have to be individually
>>> interviewed by the client's trusted technologist who would ask you for your
>>> portfolio and recommendations from other related work. They could further
>>> protect themselves by withholding your payment until you have delivered on
>>> their requirements, with the the further option of lodging a complaint
>>> against you from this body that will be established.
>>>
>>> For new concepts that would be cutting edge, then the current principle
>>> remains valid. Patent your idea then work towards demonstrating its
>>> usefulness and the proposed applications and a well formed team of
>>> technologists will give you the support and approval that you need.
>>>
>>> There could also be an appeals mechanism within the proposal where the
>>> entire community could be lobbied for support. A Reddit type of system
>>> could be used to upvote consensus.
>>>
>>> If all fails then take yourself to a jurisdiction/community that gets
>>> you and let those that put you down burn in the glare of your success.
>>>
>>> AS FOR THOSE SAYING THAT THIS WILL STIFLE NEW TECHNOLOGY. HOW DO YOU
>>> EXPECT SOMEONE TO DEVELOP CUTTING EDGE TECH IF THEY CANNOT EVEN DEMONSTRATE
>>> BASIC ICT COMPETENCY FROM ANY OF THE MANY FIELDS THAT ALREADY EXIST?!
>>>
>>> You would never be able to code/develop that new thingamajig if you
>>> cannot even show the ability to put something reasonable from what exists
>>> currently. And remember that we are talking about those who do not have any
>>> currently recognizable documentation to support your proficiency (this is
>>> my assumption until I can see the final proposed bill).
>>>
>>> Regards,
>>>
>>> Kevin
>>>
>>> On 18 December 2017 at 17:58, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>>> My take,
>>>>
>>>> Some things are just ridiculous..
>>>>
>>>> You have a HR Administrator, A Programmer, Office Administrator, an IP
>>>> Lawyer, a sweeper, a Cyber Security expert all five working for:
>>>> a)A banks IT department
>>>> b) An insurance firms IT department
>>>> c) A manufacturing firm IT department
>>>> d) An IT consulting business
>>>> e)A software engineering firm
>>>>
>>>> Give me one set of laws regulating them?
>>>>
>>>> You regulate individuals in *professions* not in an industry. Thats why
>>>> in a bank, the HR Administrator gets regulated by HR association etc,
>>>> Lawyer gets regulated by ISK, the Programmer (based on whatever courses
>>>> he's taken and/or experience etc) by their respective bodies and/or
>>>> experience etc
>>>>
>>>> In an industry, you regulate final products and/or final services
>>>> delivered!
>>>>
>>>> Now, what are some of the professions we have in the software industry?
>>>> 1. Programmers / developers
>>>> 2. System Administrators
>>>> 3. Database Administrators
>>>> 4. Enterprise Architects
>>>> 5. UX Designers
>>>>
>>>> Now, try making a common regulation for those 5 out of a possible
>>>> hundreds...
>>>>
>>>> Finally, for those us in software, you will agree its more art at some
>>>> point than science, so how do you regulate art?
>>>>
>>>> Do you tell Picasso he can't paint because he wasn't certified as an
>>>> painter? Do you tell Franco he can't sing because he wasn't certified as a
>>>> singer? Do you tell a young Bill Gates he can't write software because he
>>>> wasn't certified in computer science?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Watila Alex via kictanet <
>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> EricKigada: Kenya’s controversial ICT Practitioners Bill 2016 to be tabled in parliament againtechmoran.com/kenyas-controv…https://twitter.com/EricKigada/status/937309893954031616
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android
>>>>> <https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android>
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
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>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> *Regards,*
>>>>
>>>> *Wait**haka Ngigi*
>>>> Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod
>>>> Building
>>>> T +254 20 525 0750 |Office Mobile: +254 716 201061 | M +254 737 811 000
>>>> www.at.co.ke
>>>>
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>>>> ailman/options/kictanet/kevin.kamonye%40gmail.com
>>>>
>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>>>>
>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> *Regards,*
>>
>> *Wait**haka Ngigi*
>> Chief Executive Officer | Alliance Technologies | MCK Nairobi Synod
>> Building
>> T +254 20 525 0750 |Office Mobile: +254 716 201061 | M +254 737 811 000
>> www.at.co.ke
>>
>
>
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>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>
>
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