[kictanet] kictanet Digest, Vol 105, Issue 103

Sat Feb 27 10:35:45 EAT 2016

First I am pro-net neutrality, however I am aware of special interest
groups who are out to advocate the interests of their organizations by
popular means. Our national interest is bigger than that of a particular
company or organization and that should manifest in all our policy
discussions.

On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Nanjira Sambuli via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> Paul, your statement seems to frame the pro-Net Neutrality advocacy as an
> "externally well funded" thing. Why is that?
>
>
> Regards,
> Nanjira.
>
> Sent from my iPhone.
>
> > On 27 Feb 2016, at 10:08, kictanet-request at lists.kictanet.or.ke wrote:
> >
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> > Today's Topics:
> >
> >   1. Re: Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Mwendwa Kivuva)
> >   2. Re: Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Paul Roy)
> >   3. Re: Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Ebele Okobi)
> >
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 1
> > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 09:57:28 +0300
> > From: Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva at transworldafrica.com>
> > To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Net neutrality 'first world' problem?
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CAEhPqwqNYPVfqOAVrdaiV_XoC1mwsLthCVaUvW_=U-ysGaKnAg at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
> >
> > Dr. Waudo,
> >
> > "I attack ideas, I don't attack people - and some very good people
> > have some very bad ideas" - Antonin Scalia
> >
> >
> > Allowing people to break the Internet is the slippery road. Allowing
> > others to break the Internet for the developing world is like saying;
> > "we should use second hand, we are second rate citizens, for us
> > anything goes. We can take anything. Hell we are poor, we are beggars.
> > Please give us crumbs".
> >
> > When will developing countries start asserting themselves? You know
> > what, countries that believe in the best for themselves in the end
> > becomes outliers. These are the little differences that after a long
> > while separates the masters from the slaves.
> >
> > Imagine two digital natives, one born in North America with access to
> > the Internet, and the second born in Africa with access to just a few
> > services of the Internet. After 20 years, they meet in the corporate
> > scenes. How will they compete? This was illustrated very clearly
> > thousands of years ago by Plato in the "Allegory of the cave".
> >
> > The narrative should be " We deserve the best, we are rich both in
> > spirit and ideologies, we will go for the best, we deserve the best".
> > After that we find solutions to getting what we deserve. Let us not
> > settle for less. Remember, as Voltaire said, no problem can withstand
> > the assault of sustained thinking
> >
> > The argument that a little few websites are better than non is a non
> > starter.
> >
> >
> > Sincerely
> >
> >> On 27/02/2016, Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> wrote:
> >> Liz
> >>
> >> Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately I think that notion is too
> simplistic. Net
> >> Neutrality is not only a first world problem. And comparing it with
> bread
> >> and other foods is basically missing the point.
> >>
> >> Let's address it from an infrastructure point of view. Firstly the
> Internet
> >> is now so critical that this Balkanization that is happening is
> >> discriminatory. The likes of the Internet Giants who dole out a walled
> >> garden form of Internet access have zero motive for the good of the
> African
> >> people - they are after eyeballs. Plain and simple.  Eyeballs mean
> money.
> >>
> >> Secondly, the government has a responsibility to make the Internet
> >> affordable, and to make access free in marginalized areas and
> communities.
> >> That's why we have the Universal Access Fund.
> >>
> >> Thirdly, to say that Net Neutrality is a first world problem is to
> rubbish
> >> all the startups that are struggling to build content in Africa. They
> surely
> >> don't have the muscle of Google or Facebook to dole out 'Free Access'.
> And
> >> if we allow this to happen they will have a snowball in hell getting
> their
> >> content read.
> >>
> >> Our CS is quoted as saying:-
> >>
> >> It?s like saying someone has no food, but if someone brings them bread
> we
> >> are not going to allow them to have the bread because they must have a
> >> balanced diet,? he said. ?I don?t think that works for me.?
> >>
> >> I'll compare this statement with access to roads. So if we don't have
> access
> >> to roads we should accept potholed ones? Granted we may not have a
> choice
> >> but to use the potholed ones (as is the case). However it sure doesn't
> make
> >> it right! Someone is dropping the ball and they must be made
> accountable.
> >>
> >> One thing I'll concede is that Net Neutrality as defined by the first
> world
> >> is just not workable here. That's why we must define Net Neutrality
> from an
> >> African perspective.
> >>
> >> A National Forum is long overdue.
> >>
> >> Ali Hussein
> >> Principal
> >> Hussein & Associates
> >> +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
> >>
> >> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> >> Skype: abu-jomo
> >> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> >>
> >>
> >> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
> what
> >> no one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >>> On 26 Feb 2016, at 9:43 PM, Liz Orembo via kictanet
> >>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Interesting read.
> >>>
> >>>
> http://mgafrica.com/article/2016-02-24-africa-internet-access-more-important-for-africa-than-net-neutrality-which-is-a-first-world-problem/
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>>
> >>> Best regards.
> >>> Liz.
> >>>
> >>> PGP ID: 0x1F3488BF
> >>> _______________________________________________
> >>> kictanet mailing list
> >>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >>> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >>>
> >>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> >>>
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com
> >>>
> >>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> >>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> >>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >>> development.
> >>>
> >>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> >>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> bandwidth,
> >>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
> do
> >>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >
> >
> > --
> > ______________________
> > Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
> > twitter.com/lordmwesh
> >
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 2
> > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 10:01:11 +0300
> > From: Paul Roy <roykoikai at gmail.com>
> > To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Net neutrality 'first world' problem?
> > Message-ID:
> >    <CA+AXev7jnLzqGeoDg5WoM08_pCk7iQvZpP+GEKWEApO9gqH-1A at mail.gmail.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> >
> > I think you jumped the gun here Ali. The CS's point is that we have a
> long
> > way to go in expanding internet access for now that we should not be
> > worried about net neutrality kind of discussions.
> >
> > This doesn't mean that lobbyist and special interest groups that are
> > externally well funded should not express their ideas and opinions in
> > public forums, but to also acknowledge the effort the government is
> doing.
> >
> > Back to your analogy of roads, If you have no roads you would not insist
> on
> > having a tarmac road as the only form of acceptable road. An all
> weathered
> > road will be better than no road at all. Of course you can always ask for
> > it's upgrade.
> >
> > On public forum discussion - i totally agree on the need to have one
> > soonest.
> >
> >
> >
> > On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 7:38 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <
> > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >
> >> Liz
> >>
> >> Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately I think that notion is too simplistic.
> >> Net Neutrality is not only a first world problem. And comparing it with
> >> bread and other foods is basically missing the point.
> >>
> >> Let's address it from an infrastructure point of view. Firstly the
> >> Internet is now so critical that this Balkanization that is happening is
> >> discriminatory. The likes of the Internet Giants who dole out a walled
> >> garden form of Internet access have zero motive for the good of the
> African
> >> people - they are after eyeballs. Plain and simple.  Eyeballs mean
> money.
> >>
> >> Secondly, the government has a responsibility to make the Internet
> >> affordable, and to make access free in marginalized areas and
> communities.
> >> That's why we have the Universal Access Fund.
> >>
> >> Thirdly, to say that Net Neutrality is a first world problem is to
> rubbish
> >> all the startups that are struggling to build content in Africa. They
> >> surely don't have the muscle of Google or Facebook to dole out 'Free
> >> Access'.  And if we allow this to happen they will have a snowball in
> hell
> >> getting their content read.
> >>
> >> Our CS is quoted as saying:-
> >>
> >> It?s like saying someone has no food, but if someone brings them bread
> we
> >> are not going to allow them to have the bread because they must have a
> >> balanced diet,? he said. ?I don?t think that works for me.?
> >>
> >> I'll compare this statement with access to roads. So if we don't have
> >> access to roads we should accept potholed ones? Granted we may not have
> a
> >> choice but to use the potholed ones (as is the case). However it sure
> >> doesn't make it right! Someone is dropping the ball and they must be
> made
> >> accountable.
> >>
> >> One thing I'll concede is that Net Neutrality as defined by the first
> >> world is just not workable here. That's why we must define Net
> Neutrality
> >> from an African perspective.
> >>
> >> A National Forum is long overdue.
> >>
> >> *Ali Hussein*
> >> *Principal*
> >> *Hussein & Associates*
> >> +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
> >>
> >> Twitter: @AliHKassim
> >>
> >> Skype: abu-jomo
> >>
> >> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
> >>
> >>
> >> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
> >> what no one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
> >>
> >> Sent from my iPad
> >>
> >> On 26 Feb 2016, at 9:43 PM, Liz Orembo via kictanet <
> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>
> >>
> >> Interesting read.
> >>
> >>
> >>
> http://mgafrica.com/article/2016-02-24-africa-internet-access-more-important-for-africa-than-net-neutrality-which-is-a-first-world-problem/
> >>
> >> --
> >>
> >> Best regards.
> >> Liz.
> >>
> >> PGP ID: 0x1F3488BF
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> kictanet mailing list
> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> >>
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com
> >>
> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> >> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> development.
> >>
> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> bandwidth,
> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
> do
> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >>
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> kictanet mailing list
> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> >> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
> >>
> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at
> >>
> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/roykoikai%40gmail.com
> >>
> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> >> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> development.
> >>
> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> bandwidth,
> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
> do
> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of
> > luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
> >
> > Roy.
> > -------------- next part --------------
> > An HTML attachment was scrubbed...
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> https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/pipermail/kictanet/attachments/20160227/06c31bf0/attachment-0001.html
> >
> >
> > ------------------------------
> >
> > Message: 3
> > Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 07:01:43 +0000
> > From: Ebele Okobi <ebeleokobi at fb.com>
> > To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > Cc: Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke>, Nanjira Sambuli
> >    <nanjira at ihub.co.ke>
> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Net neutrality 'first world' problem?
> > Message-ID: <F099C53D-C494-4ED7-B88A-F545B2DB71AF at fb.com>
> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"
> >
> > I'm curious-what does the KFCB demand that Google censor content have to
> do with net neutrality?
> >
> > Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
> > m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315<tel:+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
> > 10 Brock Street | London<x-apple-data-detectors://0/1> | NW1 3FG
> > ebeleokobi at fb.com<mailto:ebeleokobi at fb.com>
> >
> > [6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
> >
> > On Feb 27, 2016, at 5:32 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
> wrote:
> >
> > Nanjira
> >
> > The CS is definitely entitled to his opinion. Like all of us. My concern
> is of course that his opinion can be construed to be Government Policy. And
> Net Neutrality cannot be distilled in such a simplistic way.
> >
> > I think it's high time this country and the rest of Africa have a deep
> conversation about what Net Neutrality means for us.
> >
> > Take for example the issue of KFCB the other day when the CEO  announced
> that they have asked Google to take down the 'offending' video of same sex
> marriage/love endorsement.
> >
> > I was astounded that the whole discussion degenerated to the issue of
> homosexuality!!
> >
> > My questions and concerns were quite clear and they alluded to our total
> lack of policy regarding Net Neutrality. And address in an ICT Forum.
> >
> > KFCB used the right tools to ask for the video take down. The same tools
> have been used by other governments.
> >
> > With all due respect to the CS but I think he needs to be careful not to
> simplify this important matter. Let's discuss it fully and come up with our
> own Net Neutrality version. This definitely doesn't include abdicating our
> responsibilities as a country to global internet companies. This will be a
> recipe for disaster.
> >
> > Ali Hussein
> > Principal
> > Hussein & Associates
> > +254 0713 601113 / 0770906375
> >
> >
> > Twitter: @AliHKassim
> >
> > Skype: abu-jomo
> >
> > LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim<
> https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ke.linkedin.com_in_alihkassim&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=ZD6llrZ9U0Tt0C7TClsJ8TOxAcf6FGVyWVYRjpMuap0&s=sWZ0vbizFku0Ii-UHXdmGL18LtQiJB-I-6szcESplVI&e=
> >
> >
> >
> > "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
> what no one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
> >
> > Sent from my iPad
> >
> > On 27 Feb 2016, at 8:08 AM, Nanjira Sambuli via kictanet <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
> wrote:
> >
> > This is at least the second piece citing the CS' point of view.
> > It might be in order to write a letter to him explaining why it is not a
> first world problem.
> >
> >
> > Regards,
> > Nanjira.
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone.
> >
> > On 27 Feb 2016, at 07:44, kictanet-request at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:
> kictanet-request at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >
> > Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Ali Hussein)
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > kictanet mailing list
> > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> > https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet<
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> >
> >
> > Unsubscribe or change your options at
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> >
> >
> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> >
> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> > _______________________________________________
> > kictanet mailing list
> > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> >
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> >
> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
> >
> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
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> >
> > Subject: Digest Footer
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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> > ------------------------------
> >
> > End of kictanet Digest, Vol 105, Issue 103
> > ******************************************
>
> _______________________________________________
> kictanet mailing list
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
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> Unsubscribe or change your options at
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> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.
>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>

-- 
"Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of
luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."

Roy.
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