<div dir="ltr">First I am pro-net neutrality, however I am aware of special interest groups who are out to advocate the interests of their organizations by popular means. Our national interest is bigger than that of a particular company or organization and that should manifest in all our policy discussions.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 10:16 AM, Nanjira Sambuli via kictanet <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Paul, your statement seems to frame the pro-Net Neutrality advocacy as an "externally well funded" thing. Why is that?<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
Nanjira.<br>
<br>
Sent from my iPhone.<br>
<br>
> On 27 Feb 2016, at 10:08, <a href="mailto:kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> wrote:<br>
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> Today's Topics:<br>
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> 1. Re: Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Mwendwa Kivuva)<br>
> 2. Re: Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Paul Roy)<br>
> 3. Re: Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Ebele Okobi)<br>
><br>
><br>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
><br>
> Message: 1<br>
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 09:57:28 +0300<br>
> From: Mwendwa Kivuva <<a href="mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com">Kivuva@transworldafrica.com</a>><br>
> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Net neutrality 'first world' problem?<br>
> Message-ID:<br>
> <CAEhPqwqNYPVfqOAVrdaiV_XoC1mwsLthCVaUvW_=<a href="mailto:U-ysGaKnAg@mail.gmail.com">U-ysGaKnAg@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8<br>
><br>
> Dr. Waudo,<br>
><br>
> "I attack ideas, I don't attack people - and some very good people<br>
> have some very bad ideas" - Antonin Scalia<br>
><br>
><br>
> Allowing people to break the Internet is the slippery road. Allowing<br>
> others to break the Internet for the developing world is like saying;<br>
> "we should use second hand, we are second rate citizens, for us<br>
> anything goes. We can take anything. Hell we are poor, we are beggars.<br>
> Please give us crumbs".<br>
><br>
> When will developing countries start asserting themselves? You know<br>
> what, countries that believe in the best for themselves in the end<br>
> becomes outliers. These are the little differences that after a long<br>
> while separates the masters from the slaves.<br>
><br>
> Imagine two digital natives, one born in North America with access to<br>
> the Internet, and the second born in Africa with access to just a few<br>
> services of the Internet. After 20 years, they meet in the corporate<br>
> scenes. How will they compete? This was illustrated very clearly<br>
> thousands of years ago by Plato in the "Allegory of the cave".<br>
><br>
> The narrative should be " We deserve the best, we are rich both in<br>
> spirit and ideologies, we will go for the best, we deserve the best".<br>
> After that we find solutions to getting what we deserve. Let us not<br>
> settle for less. Remember, as Voltaire said, no problem can withstand<br>
> the assault of sustained thinking<br>
><br>
> The argument that a little few websites are better than non is a non<br>
> starter.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Sincerely<br>
><br>
>> On 27/02/2016, Ali Hussein via kictanet <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
>> Liz<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately I think that notion is too simplistic. Net<br>
>> Neutrality is not only a first world problem. And comparing it with bread<br>
>> and other foods is basically missing the point.<br>
>><br>
>> Let's address it from an infrastructure point of view. Firstly the Internet<br>
>> is now so critical that this Balkanization that is happening is<br>
>> discriminatory. The likes of the Internet Giants who dole out a walled<br>
>> garden form of Internet access have zero motive for the good of the African<br>
>> people - they are after eyeballs. Plain and simple. Eyeballs mean money.<br>
>><br>
>> Secondly, the government has a responsibility to make the Internet<br>
>> affordable, and to make access free in marginalized areas and communities.<br>
>> That's why we have the Universal Access Fund.<br>
>><br>
>> Thirdly, to say that Net Neutrality is a first world problem is to rubbish<br>
>> all the startups that are struggling to build content in Africa. They surely<br>
>> don't have the muscle of Google or Facebook to dole out 'Free Access'. And<br>
>> if we allow this to happen they will have a snowball in hell getting their<br>
>> content read.<br>
>><br>
>> Our CS is quoted as saying:-<br>
>><br>
>> It?s like saying someone has no food, but if someone brings them bread we<br>
>> are not going to allow them to have the bread because they must have a<br>
>> balanced diet,? he said. ?I don?t think that works for me.?<br>
>><br>
>> I'll compare this statement with access to roads. So if we don't have access<br>
>> to roads we should accept potholed ones? Granted we may not have a choice<br>
>> but to use the potholed ones (as is the case). However it sure doesn't make<br>
>> it right! Someone is dropping the ball and they must be made accountable.<br>
>><br>
>> One thing I'll concede is that Net Neutrality as defined by the first world<br>
>> is just not workable here. That's why we must define Net Neutrality from an<br>
>> African perspective.<br>
>><br>
>> A National Forum is long overdue.<br>
>><br>
>> Ali Hussein<br>
>> Principal<br>
>> Hussein & Associates<br>
>> <a href="tel:%2B254%200713%20601113" value="+254713601113">+254 0713 601113</a> / <a href="tel:0770906375" value="+254770906375">0770906375</a><br>
>><br>
>> Twitter: @AliHKassim<br>
>> Skype: abu-jomo<br>
>> LinkedIn: <a href="http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what<br>
>> no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi<br>
>><br>
>> Sent from my iPad<br>
>><br>
>>> On 26 Feb 2016, at 9:43 PM, Liz Orembo via kictanet<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> Interesting read.<br>
>>><br>
>>> <a href="http://mgafrica.com/article/2016-02-24-africa-internet-access-more-important-for-africa-than-net-neutrality-which-is-a-first-world-problem/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mgafrica.com/article/2016-02-24-africa-internet-access-more-important-for-africa-than-net-neutrality-which-is-a-first-world-problem/</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> --<br>
>>><br>
>>> Best regards.<br>
>>> Liz.<br>
>>><br>
>>> PGP ID: 0x1F3488BF<br>
>>> _______________________________________________<br>
>>> kictanet mailing list<br>
>>> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
>>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at<br>
>>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com</a><br>
>>><br>
>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform<br>
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and<br>
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT<br>
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and<br>
>>> development.<br>
>>><br>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors<br>
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,<br>
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do<br>
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> ______________________<br>
> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya<br>
> <a href="http://twitter.com/lordmwesh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">twitter.com/lordmwesh</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> ------------------------------<br>
><br>
> Message: 2<br>
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 10:01:11 +0300<br>
> From: Paul Roy <<a href="mailto:roykoikai@gmail.com">roykoikai@gmail.com</a>><br>
> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Net neutrality 'first world' problem?<br>
> Message-ID:<br>
> <<a href="mailto:CA%2BAXev7jnLzqGeoDg5WoM08_pCk7iQvZpP%2BGEKWEApO9gqH-1A@mail.gmail.com">CA+AXev7jnLzqGeoDg5WoM08_pCk7iQvZpP+GEKWEApO9gqH-1A@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
><br>
> I think you jumped the gun here Ali. The CS's point is that we have a long<br>
> way to go in expanding internet access for now that we should not be<br>
> worried about net neutrality kind of discussions.<br>
><br>
> This doesn't mean that lobbyist and special interest groups that are<br>
> externally well funded should not express their ideas and opinions in<br>
> public forums, but to also acknowledge the effort the government is doing.<br>
><br>
> Back to your analogy of roads, If you have no roads you would not insist on<br>
> having a tarmac road as the only form of acceptable road. An all weathered<br>
> road will be better than no road at all. Of course you can always ask for<br>
> it's upgrade.<br>
><br>
> On public forum discussion - i totally agree on the need to have one<br>
> soonest.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On Sat, Feb 27, 2016 at 7:38 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <<br>
> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Liz<br>
>><br>
>> Thanks for sharing. Unfortunately I think that notion is too simplistic.<br>
>> Net Neutrality is not only a first world problem. And comparing it with<br>
>> bread and other foods is basically missing the point.<br>
>><br>
>> Let's address it from an infrastructure point of view. Firstly the<br>
>> Internet is now so critical that this Balkanization that is happening is<br>
>> discriminatory. The likes of the Internet Giants who dole out a walled<br>
>> garden form of Internet access have zero motive for the good of the African<br>
>> people - they are after eyeballs. Plain and simple. Eyeballs mean money.<br>
>><br>
>> Secondly, the government has a responsibility to make the Internet<br>
>> affordable, and to make access free in marginalized areas and communities.<br>
>> That's why we have the Universal Access Fund.<br>
>><br>
>> Thirdly, to say that Net Neutrality is a first world problem is to rubbish<br>
>> all the startups that are struggling to build content in Africa. They<br>
>> surely don't have the muscle of Google or Facebook to dole out 'Free<br>
>> Access'. And if we allow this to happen they will have a snowball in hell<br>
>> getting their content read.<br>
>><br>
>> Our CS is quoted as saying:-<br>
>><br>
>> It?s like saying someone has no food, but if someone brings them bread we<br>
>> are not going to allow them to have the bread because they must have a<br>
>> balanced diet,? he said. ?I don?t think that works for me.?<br>
>><br>
>> I'll compare this statement with access to roads. So if we don't have<br>
>> access to roads we should accept potholed ones? Granted we may not have a<br>
>> choice but to use the potholed ones (as is the case). However it sure<br>
>> doesn't make it right! Someone is dropping the ball and they must be made<br>
>> accountable.<br>
>><br>
>> One thing I'll concede is that Net Neutrality as defined by the first<br>
>> world is just not workable here. That's why we must define Net Neutrality<br>
>> from an African perspective.<br>
>><br>
>> A National Forum is long overdue.<br>
>><br>
>> *Ali Hussein*<br>
>> *Principal*<br>
>> *Hussein & Associates*<br>
>> <a href="tel:%2B254%200713%20601113" value="+254713601113">+254 0713 601113</a> / <a href="tel:0770906375" value="+254770906375">0770906375</a><br>
>><br>
>> Twitter: @AliHKassim<br>
>><br>
>> Skype: abu-jomo<br>
>><br>
>> LinkedIn: <a href="http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim</a><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking<br>
>> what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi<br>
>><br>
>> Sent from my iPad<br>
>><br>
>> On 26 Feb 2016, at 9:43 PM, Liz Orembo via kictanet <<br>
>> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> Interesting read.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> <a href="http://mgafrica.com/article/2016-02-24-africa-internet-access-more-important-for-africa-than-net-neutrality-which-is-a-first-world-problem/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://mgafrica.com/article/2016-02-24-africa-internet-access-more-important-for-africa-than-net-neutrality-which-is-a-first-world-problem/</a><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>><br>
>> Best regards.<br>
>> Liz.<br>
>><br>
>> PGP ID: 0x1F3488BF<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> kictanet mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
>><br>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform<br>
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and<br>
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT<br>
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
>><br>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors<br>
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,<br>
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do<br>
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> kictanet mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
>><br>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/roykoikai%40gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/roykoikai%40gmail.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform<br>
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and<br>
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT<br>
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
>><br>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors<br>
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,<br>
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do<br>
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
> "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of<br>
> luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."<br>
><br>
> Roy.<br>
> -------------- next part --------------<br>
> An HTML attachment was scrubbed...<br>
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><br>
> ------------------------------<br>
><br>
> Message: 3<br>
> Date: Sat, 27 Feb 2016 07:01:43 +0000<br>
> From: Ebele Okobi <<a href="mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com">ebeleokobi@fb.com</a>><br>
> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>><br>
> Cc: Ali Hussein <<a href="mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke">ali@hussein.me.ke</a>>, Nanjira Sambuli<br>
> <<a href="mailto:nanjira@ihub.co.ke">nanjira@ihub.co.ke</a>><br>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Net neutrality 'first world' problem?<br>
> Message-ID: <<a href="mailto:F099C53D-C494-4ED7-B88A-F545B2DB71AF@fb.com">F099C53D-C494-4ED7-B88A-F545B2DB71AF@fb.com</a>><br>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1"<br>
><br>
> I'm curious-what does the KFCB demand that Google censor content have to do with net neutrality?<br>
><br>
> Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa<br>
> m. <a href="tel:%2B44%20%280%29%20771%20156%201315" value="+447711561315">+44 (0) 771 156 1315</a><tel:+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315><br>
> 10 Brock Street | London<x-apple-data-detectors://0/1> | NW1 3FG<br>
> <a href="mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com">ebeleokobi@fb.com</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com">ebeleokobi@fb.com</a>><br>
><br>
> [6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]<br>
><br>
> On Feb 27, 2016, at 5:32 AM, Ali Hussein via kictanet <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Nanjira<br>
><br>
> The CS is definitely entitled to his opinion. Like all of us. My concern is of course that his opinion can be construed to be Government Policy. And Net Neutrality cannot be distilled in such a simplistic way.<br>
><br>
> I think it's high time this country and the rest of Africa have a deep conversation about what Net Neutrality means for us.<br>
><br>
> Take for example the issue of KFCB the other day when the CEO announced that they have asked Google to take down the 'offending' video of same sex marriage/love endorsement.<br>
><br>
> I was astounded that the whole discussion degenerated to the issue of homosexuality!!<br>
><br>
> My questions and concerns were quite clear and they alluded to our total lack of policy regarding Net Neutrality. And address in an ICT Forum.<br>
><br>
> KFCB used the right tools to ask for the video take down. The same tools have been used by other governments.<br>
><br>
> With all due respect to the CS but I think he needs to be careful not to simplify this important matter. Let's discuss it fully and come up with our own Net Neutrality version. This definitely doesn't include abdicating our responsibilities as a country to global internet companies. This will be a recipe for disaster.<br>
><br>
> Ali Hussein<br>
> Principal<br>
> Hussein & Associates<br>
> <a href="tel:%2B254%200713%20601113" value="+254713601113">+254 0713 601113</a> / <a href="tel:0770906375" value="+254770906375">0770906375</a><br>
><br>
><br>
> Twitter: @AliHKassim<br>
><br>
> Skype: abu-jomo<br>
><br>
> LinkedIn: <a href="http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim</a><<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ke.linkedin.com_in_alihkassim&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=ZD6llrZ9U0Tt0C7TClsJ8TOxAcf6FGVyWVYRjpMuap0&s=sWZ0vbizFku0Ii-UHXdmGL18LtQiJB-I-6szcESplVI&e=" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__ke.linkedin.com_in_alihkassim&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=ZD6llrZ9U0Tt0C7TClsJ8TOxAcf6FGVyWVYRjpMuap0&s=sWZ0vbizFku0Ii-UHXdmGL18LtQiJB-I-6szcESplVI&e=</a>><br>
><br>
><br>
> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi<br>
><br>
> Sent from my iPad<br>
><br>
> On 27 Feb 2016, at 8:08 AM, Nanjira Sambuli via kictanet <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> This is at least the second piece citing the CS' point of view.<br>
> It might be in order to write a letter to him explaining why it is not a first world problem.<br>
><br>
><br>
> Regards,<br>
> Nanjira.<br>
><br>
> Sent from my iPhone.<br>
><br>
> On 27 Feb 2016, at 07:44, <a href="mailto:kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><mailto:<a href="mailto:kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
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> Net neutrality 'first world' problem? (Ali Hussein)<br>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
<br>
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature">"Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of<br>luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."<br><br>Roy.</div>
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