[kictanet] ICT Authority to weed out quacks

[Kevin Kamonye]

My ideal scenario as regards to post secondary school;

1. Enroll for a program like NYS/ Police/ Military for at least 1 year to
learn essential life skills.
2. Continue serving or get into the job market for at least 2 years doing
some paid internship/apprenticeship (savings scheme for school fees )
3. Go for Undergraduate studies - Dip/Bachelor (part-time/ distance
learning for non-eng. courses)
4. Back to work - start of specialisation for at least 5 years
5. Masters  etc. but after a very thorough interviewing/ career review
process before being enrolled to any program

These certifications are in some ways hurting the industry. But I guess
they are a necessary evil as the job market is flooded with people who can
get the job done.

Perhaps we should have a common framework that acts as a lifetime
Continuous Assesment Test (CAT) for every sector of the industry that is
publicly and commonly administered by selected panels for every region.
Like a LinkedIN where endorsements for skills actually mean something.

As for me, the industry I have been trying to break into to start my
specialisation (Cyber Security OPs) seems to have a thing for seeing the
entire alphabet on your CV :) This quack has thrown in the towel and am
back at school (actually started my end of semester exams today).

Kevin

On 2 December 2016 at 14:35, JImmy Gitonga via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> Wow Andrew,
>
> It seems that is everyone's journey here until "recently" when Computer
> Science became a course in our universities. I am a "quack" as much as you
> are.
>
> I loved the story and all the best.
>
> So, Listers, this is my take. The problem is that the government has
> allowed tenderpreneurs to flourish in every sector, and the experts in the
> government, who ought to supervise, are compromised for various reasons.
>
> We are just feeling the heat now because we are in the way of the rent
> seekers. Look at our mechanical engineering sector and see the chaos caused
> by "regulation".
>
> Regards
>
> Jimmy Gitonga
> *Web and Motion*
>
>
> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 2:12 PM, <kictanet-request at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> wrote:
>
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>>
>>    1. Re: ICT Authority to weed out quacks (Andrew Alston)
>>
>>
>> ----------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Message: 1
>> Date: Fri, 2 Dec 2016 11:10:41 +0000
>> From: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>> To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority to weed out quacks
>> Message-ID:
>>         <AMSPR03MB534A8D637B9580FA82CDF1AEE8E0 at AMSPR03MB534.eurprd03
>> .prod.outlook.com>
>>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>>
>> Hi All,
>>
>> I wade into this debate with a great degree of caution, but at the same
>> time I feel it would be amiss not to tell my own story ? and let you judge
>> my stance from that.
>>
>> When I was 12 years old, living in South Africa, I walked door to door at
>> every computer shop in the town I lived in, begging for a chance to help
>> out in the stores ? I didn?t want money ? I wanted to be near the
>> machines.  There was a guy, interestingly he shared my first name, and
>> decided he?d give me a chance, and so at 12 years old I started showing up
>> on Saturdays and installing dos on machines and installing windows 3.1 and
>> hanging around their workshop.  By the time I was 13, I was putting
>> together machines for them. They were even kind enough to give me the
>> equivalent of 140 KSH for a Saturday morning.
>>
>> Somewhere along the way, I got hold of a copy of turbo pascal and begged
>> pleaded and borrowed some manuals and taught myself how to program, first
>> in pascal, and then in assembler.  By the time I was 16, I was then faced
>> with a choice.  I could stick with high school, finish, leave at the same
>> time as everyone else, go to universities, spend years getting a degree,
>> and then enter the job market at the same time as all my school friends.
>> Or, due to the age of the industry and how new it was where I was growing
>> up, I could leave school, get a job, and get a 2 and a half year experience
>> head start on everyone I was at school with.  I made my choice, and in
>> around March, 3 months into grade 10, I clearly remember getting up in the
>> middle of science class, and walking out.  I never went back.
>>
>> By the time I left though, I had already organized myself a job, relying
>> on the experience I had working in computer stores for the previous 3 and a
>> half odd years, and relying on the fact that I could already program.  So,
>> I got on a bus, at age 16, travelled a thousand kilometres down to Cape
>> Town and started my working life.  Over the next few years, I worked my ass
>> off, earned just enough money to keep me afloat, and eventually started my
>> own IT security company, got defrauded, went broke as a result, got up, and
>> started again.  Eventually ending up working for the University of Cape
>> Town in their IT department.  While there I started moonlighting for TENET
>> (the South African academic network), and eventually ended up as their CTO
>> where I was for 6 years.  After leaving there and doing a whole bunch of
>> contracting (primarily for various universities), I took a contract with
>> Liquid which eventually ended up becoming permanent and I ended up where I
>> am today, in a senior position building networks across the continent.
>>
>> The point of this story is ? there are individuals out there who have
>> chosen a different route ? I am not alone in the path I took, and I am not
>> special, I was not born to wealth and honestly I don?t think I could have
>> afforded to go to University anyway ? my parents certainly didn?t have the
>> money to pay for it, nor was I born with insane brain power, I merely chose
>> to find my own path and work hard to reach the heights I have.  And in all
>> of this ? I fail to see why any system should penalize people such as
>> myself, and indirectly penalize the people who I could share my knowledge
>> and experience with.  I fail to see why a qualification actually matters if
>> someone can *prove* they can do the job ? and do it well, with an equal
>> amount of passion, drive and skill, however it was acquired.
>>
>> Obviously, this post is written from an intensely personal perspective,
>> but I argue that there are many who shared the path I chose to walk, and I
>> believe that anything that removes the ability of these people to
>> contribute to society and to our industry, is unfair, dangerous and against
>> the interests of the industry as a whole.
>>
>> I know that I am PROUD to work in this industry, it is with pride that I
>> stand among my colleagues, both Kenyan and otherwise, both certified and
>> non-certified, and I just want the opportunity to continue the work I have
>> dedicated the last 21 years of my life to and continue to build this
>> industry and be able to contribute.
>>
>> Just my thoughts
>>
>> Andrew
>>
>>
>> From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+andrew.alston=liquidtelecom.com@
>> lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Dorcas Muthoni via kictanet
>> Sent: 02 December 2016 11:53
>> To: Andrew Alston <Andrew.Alston at liquidtelecom.com>
>> Cc: Dorcas Muthoni <dmuthoni at gmail.com>
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority to weed out quacks
>>
>>
>> Unfortunately, judging from my experience,  both in public and private
>> sector, HR and top IT management do indeed either get it wrong, lack
>> ability or sometimes objectivity while onboarding vendors or staff.
>>
>> In which case,  industry professionals can help in defining a criteria
>> for all. This of course should also be shared with tertiary institutions
>> and universities.
>>
>> As we know,  new professions are being defined daily. Some core
>> fundamentals remain the same.
>>
>> On Dec 2, 2016 11:27 AM, "Francis Nderitu via kictanet" <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>> In my own view this kind of vetting they are asking for should be
>> institutional but not individual - which is already happening naturally.
>> Does Company A have the capacity to offer service XYZ? That kind of
>> approach could be helpful, just like in the construction industry, diffrent
>> companies have diffrent clearance level.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 11:03 AM, Nelson J kwaje via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> @James,
>>
>> I like how people are open minded about ICT professional.  it is okay to
>> be a drop out, it is okay to not have any qualifications, just have passion
>> and be good at what you do.
>>
>> Doctors and Pilots used to be treated the same way. few  regulations, few
>> standards and no regularity body  until we realized that our lives depends
>> on these people and their mistakes can be catastrophic.
>>
>> The ICT Industry is heading in the same direction. our errors  are
>> starting to cause some serious damages  and the society is right when it
>> demands some yardstick to know who is who.
>>
>> Will you fly with an uncertified pilot ?
>>
>> Can you go to the  operating theater  with a passionate and committed
>> doctor but no certificate ?
>>
>> Why will you accept anyone to mange  the system for your bank, hospital,
>> airport and even national security.
>>
>> Cheers
>>
>> Nelson
>>
>>
>> On 02/12/2016 10:42 WD, James Muendo wrote:
>> Nelson,
>>
>> "we can not sit and and watch as the industry gets  diluted in the name
>> of innovation and disruption."
>>
>> I think what you have quoted there is what drives the profession and the
>> industry at large. What you are suggesting is we curb creativity of people
>> who seek to curb a niche out of the huge industry. As Ahmed said, this is
>> not like professions, like, being a doctor or a lawyer that have a pre-set
>> set of standards. If anything, the industry thrives on its dynamic nature,
>> which leads to disruption and innovation.
>>
>> On that I beg to disagree with you. Also, in terms of standards, if we
>> look outside .KE, what other country/town has ICT standards?
>>
>> Am with Ngigi in this one, we need to separate business from profession.
>> The tricky bit, would be, what criteria will you use to do so.
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> On 2 December 2016 at 10:28, Nelson J kwaje via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Let us face it, the ICT Industry has a problem with  standards,
>>  ambiguity rules the ICT Industry in Kenya.  the words below can have as
>> many meanings as the are ICT professionals
>>
>>   *   Cloud Solution
>>   *   Software Architect
>>   *   Software Developer
>>   *   IoT
>>   *   Web APP
>>   *   and many other
>>
>> we can not sit and and watch as the industry gets  diluted in the name of
>> innovation and disruption.
>>
>>
>> On 02/12/2016 10:12 WD, Dorcas Muthoni via kictanet wrote:
>>
>> My point is,  chaos are eminent in the industry.  Is it what we want.. NO.
>>
>> Then, let's agree on the criteria. ICT Authority is part of the KICTANET
>> community, let's engage them, instead of shooting in your defense. Let's
>> get a constructive multi-stakeholder engagement.
>>
>> I am afraid that having a few highly opinionated people rule mailing
>> lists stalls multi-stakeholder participation.
>>
>> I hope that the ICT Authority is listening somewhere.
>>
>> On Dec 2, 2016 10:00 AM, "Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet" <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>> Its not really about why people feel insecure. Its about what policy is
>> meant to do. Why? Technologists are not doctors or lawyers.
>> With all due respect. What does the education system offer as a yardstick
>> for competence? Most of us got jobs before we even graduated school. And we
>> went on to work for projects and institutions that went on to win Awards in
>> the international arena.
>>
>> You see, IT is not about being a Doctor or being a Lawyer (where theory
>> is a factor). IT is an operational field. IT, more than any other field -
>> is based on Talent. Not much on Knowledge. This is why we have so many
>> people out of Uni looking for Internships that they can not find. In a
>> market where the dynamics are governed by people who did not even do that
>> degree - to drive technical jobs.
>>
>> And yes, we have several CEOs in several companies who (and some of them
>> entrepreneur their own way through) did not even do a BCom at the least.
>> Some of them did not even see an higher learning institution.
>> We need to understand that the market dynamics are shifting. Schools in
>> developing are evolving. Why? Because Technology has changed the education
>> field. The education field is not changing technology. Apologies if we
>> believe so.
>> Just my two cents.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Collins Areba via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>> @Dorcas.
>> Before we even get to answering why many people are insecure about the
>> discussion, I would point to the more obvious question. What are the
>> protagonists trying to do? what are they trying to solve? Unfortunately
>> thus far, It is not clear. What is in need of regulation? and why does it
>> need to be regulated? is this regulation for regulation's sake?
>>
>> I did mention yesterday that from my point of view, Regulation makes
>> sense only where there is a limited resource, shared by many, which left
>> without regulation would result in disorder and "law of the jungle". Which
>> ICT component is this that needs to be streamlined to prevent it from
>> spiralling out of control?
>>
>> From where I sit, It feels like a bunch of individuals feel shortchanged
>> about the time, effort and money they spent in learning "the science" only
>> to come out here and find the arena flattened by the same technology. It
>> feels like "the bill" which seeks to assign non existent value to those
>> that feel some level of entitlement to that "ict professional" title purely
>> on the basis of having done ICT formally.
>>
>> I stand corrected.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Dorcas Muthoni via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Why are so many people insecure about this topic.
>>
>> Can a bank CEO act as the principal legal officer of a bank? Why not?
>>
>> Which Innovators are these people are referring to?  As far as I know,
>> most of the referenced global innovators dropped out of some computer
>> science programs and employ thousands of highly qualified CS and
>> engineering graduates.
>>
>> I don't think starting a box-pushing or software license reselling entity
>> coupled with hiring a few technicians can turn anyone into a domain
>> professional.  Let's get this straight and boldly address the true issues
>> at hand.
>>
>> Obviously,  this loose arrangement is leading to the proliferation of
>> extreme tender-prenuership.
>>
>> Can anyone point me to potential local Bill Gates, Larry Page or Mark
>> Mark Zuckerberg. We can't use such example to complicate this discussion.
>>
>> If anything, we should be providing a friendly environment those with
>> money and great experience invest in highly scalable startups.
>>
>> Nothing bars anyone who falls short of an agreed criteria from working on
>> it.
>>
>> Obviously,  we cannot water down such an important topic.
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2016 10:28 PM, "Alfred Kinyua via kictanet" <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Two things stand out, concerning ICT Authority.
>> 1. Conformance of set standards (raising the bar).
>> 2. locking out unqualified personnel, where government has interests .
>> This is not a trivial issue, because one might be qualified but
>> incompetent (theorists) / unsitable, while the opposite might be true,
>> unqualufied but competent/suitable, this is true for ICT realtad mattets.
>> Personally I thing further probing is required.
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2016 22:01, "Beryl Aidi via kictanet" <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>> Law and policy seldom exist in a vacuum. Does anyone know anywhere in the
>> world where the kind of regulation or ICT standards being anticipated to be
>> used to weed out quacks have been used successfully? Successfully here
>> being key, which means no victimization of those without any certifications
>> that may exist; startups; or those just playing around and happen to
>> stumble on something that may end up taking the world by storm; and by no
>> means a way to stifle internet freedoms. Anyone knows where such a model
>> exists? My two cents.
>>
>> Beryl Aidi
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Waithaka Ngigi via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>> In summary... ICT is "...A coalition of The Willing..."
>>
>> Waithaka Ngigi
>>
>> Alliance Technologies
>> www.at.co.ke<http://www.at.co.ke>
>> From: Collins Areba via kictanet
>> Sent: Thursday, December 1, 2016 9:30 PM
>> To: Ngigi Waithaka
>> Reply To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>> Cc: Collins Areba; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority to weed out quacks
>>
>>
>>
>> Exactly!
>> ICT is a disruptive sector. It is unfortunate when we attempt to define
>> it as one would engineering, or architecture, or survey. The action -
>> reaction - feedback - correction continum time wise is soo tiny. A decision
>> for instance in some of these association, say which colour to paint a wall
>> might take four months.
>>
>> I would still ask, what is the problem we are trying to solve? If this
>> can be defined we should be in a position to find solutions collectively.
>>
>> On 1 Dec 2016 21:12, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <Kivuva at transworldafrica.com<m
>> ailto:Kivuva at transworldafrica.com>> wrote:
>>
>> The said procurement quacks are like Josephine Kabura. But they are not
>> really quacks because they work as conduits for their masters in high
>> places.
>>
>> If it was possible to weed out "quacks" from the industry, the said
>> masters would still use the "professionals" to commit heinous crimes.
>>
>> Show me major scandals in Kenya conducted by quacks and I will show you a
>> liar. Goldenberg, Anglo-leasing, euro bond...
>>
>> On Dec 1, 2016 7:36 PM, "Collins Areba via kictanet" <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> I believe regulation should only be present where there is a limited,
>> shared resource that might be subject to abuse. Short of having a set of
>> rules: don't test an EMP in a built up area, don't access government
>> servers even if their passwords are admin, admin. Don't give the
>> president's number on twitter, etc etc etc. That is progressive legislation.
>>
>> On 1 Dec 2016 18:24, "Collins Areba" <arebacollins at gmail.com<mailto:
>> arebacollins at gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> Dorcas: show me the chaos. Then we discuss order.
>>
>> On 1 Dec 2016 18:17, "James Muendo" <james at muendo.co.ke<mailto:jam
>> es at muendo.co.ke>> wrote:
>> Collins,
>>
>> +1
>>
>>
>> --
>> James Muendo
>>
>> Chief Executive Officer (CEO),
>>
>> Logic Craft Ltd,
>>
>> Suite 39, 2nd Floor, Visions Plaza, Mombasa Road
>>
>> P.O Box 28016 ? 00200,
>>
>> Nairobi,KE
>>
>>
>>
>> M:| +254.725.567.508 S: | tim.rick Gtalk:| james.muendo T: | @MmuendoW:|
>> http://about.me/muendo
>>
>>
>>
>> Too Brief? Here's Why
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:15 PM +0300, "Collins Areba via kictanet" <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Personally I seek examples of the damage done by the said quacks that
>> professional institutions haven't done. The distinct point of departure
>> which will show the distinct difference so as to justify regulation.
>>
>> On 1 Dec 2016 17:32, "waudo siganga via kictanet" <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>> Kivuva, you forgot Zuckerberg.
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet wrote:
>> College drop outs who rule the world.
>>
>> Michael Saul Dell, William Henry ?Bill? Gates iii, Paul Gardner Allen,
>> Lawrence Joseph Ellison, Stephen ?Woz? Wozniak, Steven Paul Jobs, Robert
>> Edward ?Ted? Turner iii
>> http://lord.me.ke/college-dropouts-who-rule-the-world/
>>
>> I wonder who among those would be considered an ICT pro in Kenya.
>>
>> ______________________
>> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
>> twitter.com/lordmwesh<http://twitter.com/lordmwesh>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 1 December 2016 at 12:03, Ali Hussein via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>> The real important question has not been answered. Not since the term ICT
>> started being used.
>>
>> WHO IS AN ICT PRACTITIONER?
>>
>> And who is this WATCHDOG who will abrogate himself/herself the role of
>> GateKeeper and RentSeeker?
>>
>> Ali Hussein
>> Principal
>> Hussein & Associates
>> +254 0713 601113<tel:+254%20713%20601113>
>>
>>
>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>
>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>
>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>
>> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking
>> what no one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi
>>
>> Sent from my iPad
>>
>> On 1 Dec 2016, at 10:51 AM, Athar Ahmad Bhatti via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> Brian they will implant a chip in your brain and track your IQ to see
>> whether you are fit for IT. Whereas the millennial generation will lose
>> most as they are hands on.
>>
>> Athar Ahmad Bhatti
>> +254726488311<tel:+254%20726%20488311>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:43 AM +0300, "Brian Muhia via kictanet" <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>>
>> This is only to be applied to people trying to do contract jobs for the
>> government, right?
>>
>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:27 AM WANGARI KABIRU via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>> Blessed Thursday!
>>
>> Might the sector be getting its shape?
>>
>> Private schooling started as an innovative approach to education - now we
>> even have more innovative home schooling and best practice approaches.
>> Healthcare etc
>>
>> Who has helped to weed out quacks proactively in most instances - it is
>> the industry associations working with the governments. An angle to borrow
>> from.
>>
>> "....He said the authority will in the next couple of weeks launch ICT
>> standards where every professional in the field seeking to serve public
>> service must comply.
>> ?One of the things which we are doing very soon in the next couple of
>> weeks, is that we shall be launching ICT standard, these are ICT national
>> standards and we plan on having them effective from first of January and
>> based on that vendors will have to comply with the standards,? said the
>> CEO, adding that those who will not comply to the standards will be
>> blacklisted..."
>>
>> How might the players engage in the discourse to give it shape while keep
>> its jelly-nature?
>>
>> Be blessed.
>>
>> Regards/Wangari
>>
>> ---
>> Pray God Bless. 2013Wangari circa - "Being of the Light, We are Restored
>> Through Faith in Mind, Body and Spirit; We Manifest The Kingdom of God on
>> Earth".
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, 1 December 2016, 8:43, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
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