[kictanet] ICT Authority to weed out quacks

Fri Dec 2 11:13:12 EAT 2016

Bwana Nelson,

Can I say its worth noting that you may be on a Windows or Mac machine
sending this email. Either way. The technology you are using right now was
developed by college drop outs. I would advise you rid that then.

Also. These lax regulations on innovation led to some of the revolutionary
technology which you - I am afraid are benefiting from massively. Youd not
be able to even reply to this email if you practiced what you preach right
now. From a beneficiaries perspective.

#JustSaying

On 2 Dec 2016 11:07 a.m., "Nelson J kwaje via kictanet" <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

@James,

I like how people are open minded about ICT professional.  it is okay to be
a drop out, it is okay to not have any qualifications, just have passion
and be good at what you do.

Doctors and Pilots used to be treated the same way. few  regulations, few
standards and no regularity body  until we realized that our lives depends
on these people and their mistakes can be catastrophic.

The ICT Industry is heading in the same direction. our errors  are starting
to cause some serious damages  and the society is right when it demands
some yardstick to know who is who.

Will you fly with an uncertified pilot ?

Can you go to the  operating theater  with a passionate and committed
doctor but no certificate ?

Why will you accept anyone to mange  the system for your bank, hospital,
airport and even national security.

Cheers

Nelson

On 02/12/2016 10:42 WD, James Muendo wrote:

Nelson,

"we can not sit and and watch as the industry gets  diluted in the name of
innovation and disruption."

I think what you have quoted there is what drives the profession and the
industry at large. What you are suggesting is we curb creativity of people
who seek to curb a niche out of the huge industry. As Ahmed said, this is
not like professions, like, being a doctor or a lawyer that have a pre-set
set of standards. If anything, the industry thrives on its dynamic nature,
which leads to disruption and innovation.

On that I beg to disagree with you. Also, in terms of standards, if we look
outside .KE, what other country/town has ICT standards?

Am with Ngigi in this one, we need to separate business from profession.
The tricky bit, would be, what criteria will you use to do so.

Regards,

On 2 December 2016 at 10:28, Nelson J kwaje via kictanet <
kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:

> Let us face it, the ICT Industry has a problem with  standards,
> ambiguity rules the ICT Industry in Kenya.  the words below can have as
> many meanings as the are ICT professionals
>
>    - Cloud Solution
>    - Software Architect
>    - Software Developer
>    - IoT
>    - Web APP
>    - and many other
>
> we can not sit and and watch as the industry gets  diluted in the name of
> innovation and disruption.
>
>
> On 02/12/2016 10:12 WD, Dorcas Muthoni via kictanet wrote:
>
> My point is,  chaos are eminent in the industry.  Is it what we want.. NO.
>
> Then, let's agree on the criteria. ICT Authority is part of the KICTANET
> community, let's engage them, instead of shooting in your defense. Let's
> get a constructive multi-stakeholder engagement.
>
> I am afraid that having a few highly opinionated people rule mailing lists
> stalls multi-stakeholder participation.
>
> I hope that the ICT Authority is listening somewhere.
>
> On Dec 2, 2016 10:00 AM, "Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet" <
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>
>> Its not really about why people feel insecure. Its about what policy is
>> meant to do. Why? Technologists are not doctors or lawyers.
>>
>> With all due respect. What does the education system offer as a yardstick
>> for competence? Most of us got jobs before we even graduated school. And we
>> went on to work for projects and institutions that went on to win Awards in
>> the international arena.
>>
>> You see, IT is not about being a Doctor or being a Lawyer (where theory
>> is a factor). IT is an operational field. IT, more than any other field -
>> is based on Talent. Not much on Knowledge. This is why we have so many
>> people out of Uni looking for Internships that they can not find. In a
>> market where the dynamics are governed by people who did not even do that
>> degree - to drive technical jobs.
>>
>> And yes, we have several CEOs in several companies who (and some of them
>> entrepreneur their own way through) did not even do a BCom at the least.
>> Some of them did not even see an higher learning institution.
>>
>> We need to understand that the market dynamics are shifting. Schools in
>> developing are evolving. Why? *Because Technology has changed the
>> education field. The education field is not changing technology.*
>> Apologies if we believe so.
>>
>> Just my two cents.
>>
>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 9:39 AM, Collins Areba via kictanet <
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>
>>> @Dorcas.
>>> Before we even get to answering why many people are insecure about the
>>> discussion, I would point to the more obvious question. What are the
>>> protagonists trying to do? what are they trying to solve? Unfortunately
>>> thus far, It is not clear. What is in need of regulation? and why does it
>>> need to be regulated? is this regulation for regulation's sake?
>>>
>>> I did mention yesterday that from my point of view, Regulation makes
>>> sense only where there is a limited resource, shared by many, which left
>>> without regulation would result in disorder and "law of the jungle". Which
>>> ICT component is this that needs to be streamlined to prevent it from
>>> spiralling out of control?
>>>
>>> From where I sit, It feels like a bunch of individuals feel shortchanged
>>> about the time, effort and money they spent in learning "the science" only
>>> to come out here and find the arena flattened by the same technology. It
>>> feels like "the bill" which seeks to assign non existent value to those
>>> that feel some level of entitlement to that "ict professional" title purely
>>> on the basis of having done ICT formally.
>>>
>>> I stand corrected.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Dec 2, 2016 at 9:02 AM, Dorcas Muthoni via kictanet <
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Why are so many people insecure about this topic.
>>>>
>>>> Can a bank CEO act as the principal legal officer of a bank? Why not?
>>>>
>>>> Which Innovators are these people are referring to?  As far as I know,
>>>> most of the referenced global innovators dropped out of some computer
>>>> science programs and employ thousands of highly qualified CS and
>>>> engineering graduates.
>>>>
>>>> I don't think starting a box-pushing or software license reselling
>>>> entity coupled with hiring a few technicians can turn anyone into a domain
>>>> professional.  Let's get this straight and boldly address the true issues
>>>> at hand.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously,  this loose arrangement is leading to the proliferation of
>>>> extreme tender-prenuership.
>>>>
>>>> Can anyone point me to potential local Bill Gates, Larry Page or Mark
>>>> Mark Zuckerberg. We can't use such example to complicate this discussion.
>>>>
>>>> If anything, we should be providing a friendly environment those with
>>>> money and great experience invest in highly scalable startups.
>>>>
>>>> Nothing bars anyone who falls short of an agreed criteria from working
>>>> on it.
>>>>
>>>> Obviously,  we cannot water down such an important topic.
>>>>
>>>> On Dec 1, 2016 10:28 PM, "Alfred Kinyua via kictanet" <
>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Two things stand out, concerning ICT Authority.
>>>>> 1. Conformance of set standards (raising the bar).
>>>>> 2. locking out unqualified personnel, where government has interests .
>>>>> This is not a trivial issue, because one might be qualified but
>>>>> incompetent (theorists) / unsitable, while the opposite might be true,
>>>>> unqualufied but competent/suitable, this is true for ICT realtad mattets.
>>>>> Personally I thing further probing is required.
>>>>>
>>>>> On Dec 1, 2016 22:01, "Beryl Aidi via kictanet" <
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>>> Law and policy seldom exist in a vacuum. Does anyone know anywhere in
>>>>>> the world where the kind of regulation or ICT standards being anticipated
>>>>>> to be used to weed out quacks have been used successfully? Successfully
>>>>>> here being key, which means no victimization of those without any
>>>>>> certifications that may exist; startups; or those just playing around and
>>>>>> happen to stumble on something that may end up taking the world by storm;
>>>>>> and by no means a way to stifle internet freedoms. Anyone knows where such
>>>>>> a model exists? My two cents.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Beryl Aidi
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 9:41 PM, Waithaka Ngigi via kictanet <
>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In summary... ICT is "...A coalition of The Willing..."
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Waithaka Ngigi
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Alliance Technologies
>>>>>>> www.at.co.ke
>>>>>>> *From: *Collins Areba via kictanet
>>>>>>> *Sent: *Thursday, December 1, 2016 9:30 PM
>>>>>>> *To: *Ngigi Waithaka
>>>>>>> *Reply To: *KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>>>>>> *Cc: *Collins Areba; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>>>>>> *Subject: *Re: [kictanet] ICT Authority to weed out quacks
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Exactly!
>>>>>>> ICT is a disruptive sector. It is unfortunate when we attempt to
>>>>>>> define it as one would engineering, or architecture, or survey. The action
>>>>>>> - reaction - feedback - correction continum time wise is soo tiny. A
>>>>>>> decision for instance in some of these association, say which colour to
>>>>>>> paint a wall might take four months.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I would still ask, what is the problem we are trying to solve? If
>>>>>>> this can be defined we should be in a position to find solutions
>>>>>>> collectively.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 1 Dec 2016 21:12, "Mwendwa Kivuva" <Kivuva at transworldafrica.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The said procurement quacks are like Josephine Kabura. But they are
>>>>>>>> not really quacks because they work as conduits for their masters in high
>>>>>>>> places.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> If it was possible to weed out "quacks" from the industry, the said
>>>>>>>> masters would still use the "professionals" to commit heinous crimes.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Show me major scandals in Kenya conducted by quacks and I will show
>>>>>>>> you a liar. Goldenberg, Anglo-leasing, euro bond...
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Dec 1, 2016 7:36 PM, "Collins Areba via kictanet" <
>>>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I believe regulation should only be present where there is a
>>>>>>>>> limited, shared resource that might be subject to abuse. Short of having a
>>>>>>>>> set of rules: don't test an EMP in a built up area, don't access government
>>>>>>>>> servers even if their passwords are admin, admin. Don't give the
>>>>>>>>> president's number on twitter, etc etc etc. That is progressive
>>>>>>>>> legislation.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> On 1 Dec 2016 18:24, "Collins Areba" <arebacollins at gmail.com>
>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> Dorcas: show me the chaos. Then we discuss order.
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>> On 1 Dec 2016 18:17, "James Muendo" <james at muendo.co.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Collins,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> +1
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>>>>>> James Muendo
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Chief Executive Officer (CEO),
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Logic Craft Ltd,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Suite 39, 2nd Floor, Visions Plaza, Mombasa Road
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> P.O Box 28016 – 00200,
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Nairobi,KE
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> M:| +254.725.567.508 S: | tim.rick Gtalk:| james.muendo T: |
>>>>>>>>>>> @MmuendoW:|http://about.me/muendo
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Too Brief? Here's Why
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 6:15 PM +0300, "Collins Areba via
>>>>>>>>>>> kictanet" <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>> Personally I seek examples of the damage done by the said quacks
>>>>>>>>>>>> that professional institutions haven't done. The distinct point of
>>>>>>>>>>>> departure which will show the distinct difference so as to justify
>>>>>>>>>>>> regulation.
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1 Dec 2016 17:32, "waudo siganga via kictanet" <
>>>>>>>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kivuva, you forgot Zuckerberg.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016, at 11:47 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet
>>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> College drop outs who rule the world.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Michael Saul Dell, William Henry “Bill” Gates iii, Paul
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Gardner Allen, Lawrence Joseph Ellison, Stephen “Woz” Wozniak, Steven Paul
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Jobs, Robert Edward “Ted” Turner iii
>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://lord.me.ke/college-dropouts-who-rule-the-world/
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> I wonder who among those would be considered an ICT pro in
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kenya.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ______________________
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
>>>>>>>>>>>>> twitter.com/lordmwesh
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1 December 2016 at 12:03, Ali Hussein via kictanet <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> The real important question has not been answered. Not since
>>>>>>>>>>>>> the term ICT started being used.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> WHO IS AN ICT PRACTITIONER?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> And who is this WATCHDOG who will abrogate himself/herself the
>>>>>>>>>>>>> role of GateKeeper and RentSeeker?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Ali Hussein
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Principal
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Hussein & Associates
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +254 0713 601113 <+254%20713%20601113>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and
>>>>>>>>>>>>> thinking what no one else has thought".  ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 1 Dec 2016, at 10:51 AM, Athar Ahmad Bhatti via kictanet <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Brian they will implant a chip in your brain and track your IQ
>>>>>>>>>>>>> to see whether you are fit for IT. Whereas the millennial generation will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> lose most as they are hands on.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Athar Ahmad Bhatti
>>>>>>>>>>>>> +254726488311 <+254%20726%20488311>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:43 AM +0300, "Brian Muhia via
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kictanet" <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> This is only to be applied to people trying to do contract
>>>>>>>>>>>>> jobs for the government, right?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thu, Dec 1, 2016 at 10:27 AM WANGARI KABIRU via kictanet <
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Blessed Thursday!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Might the sector be getting its shape?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Private schooling started as an innovative approach to
>>>>>>>>>>>>> education - now we even have more innovative home schooling and best
>>>>>>>>>>>>> practice approaches. Healthcare etc
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Who has helped to weed out quacks proactively in most
>>>>>>>>>>>>> instances - it is the industry associations working with the governments.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> An angle to borrow from.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> "....He said the authority will in the next couple of weeks
>>>>>>>>>>>>> launch ICT standards where every professional in the field seeking to serve
>>>>>>>>>>>>> public service must comply.
>>>>>>>>>>>>> “One of the things which we are doing very soon in the next
>>>>>>>>>>>>> couple of weeks, is that we shall be launching ICT standard, these are ICT
>>>>>>>>>>>>> national standards and we plan on having them effective from first of
>>>>>>>>>>>>> January and based on that vendors will have to comply with the standards,”
>>>>>>>>>>>>> said the CEO, adding that those who will not comply to the standards will
>>>>>>>>>>>>> be blacklisted..."
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> How might the players engage in the discourse to give it shape
>>>>>>>>>>>>> while keep its jelly-nature?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Be blessed.
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Regards/Wangari
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> ---
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Pray God Bless. 2013Wangari circa - "Being of the Light, We
>>>>>>>>>>>>> are Restored Through Faith in Mind, Body and Spirit; We Manifest The
>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kingdom of God on Earth".
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Thursday, 1 December 2016, 8:43, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via
>>>>>>>>>>>>> kictanet <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>>>>>>
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