[kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp

Thu Dec 17 21:25:34 EAT 2015

Ebele,I totally agree with you on your first 2 paragraphs. However, I beg to differ with your conclusion (last paragraph). In reference to the current use case (in Brazil), the issue is how Whatsup (US entity) operates, and is regulated in a foreign territory....and how it should abide by those local/Brazil regulations. It is bound to operate by the local/Brasil rules --- if they have a legal framework in place. 
I cannot comment about the US & Latin America's compliance and regulations policy, but in the case of US/European entities, there are principles which enable some US companies to comply with privacy laws within those territories (popularly referred as Safe Harbor principles). This also include enforcement (effective means of enforcing these rules).

> Date: Thu, 17 Dec 2015 17:08:26 +0000
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Brazilians Locked out of WhatsApp
> From: kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> CC: ebeleokobi at fb.com
> To: lnjogu at hotmail.com
> 
> This statement is a bit under-informed. I am at Facebook now, but I was
> previously at Yahoo, where I led the business & human rights program,
> explicitly focused on ensuring that Yahoo¹s engagement with law
> enforcement was governed by human rights principles-the only organization
> of its kind. Companies like Yahoo, Facebook, Google subject requests from
> US law enforcement to rigorous assessments requiring that those requests
> are lawful and do not violate human rights. Companies also regularly push
> back on US law enforcement requests when the requests are not valid or
> over-broad.
> 
> This information can be easily gleaned from transparency reports, which
> all major tech companies publish. Most significantly, Yahoo also took the
> NSA to court, the only company to ever do so, explicitly because Yahoo
> refused to hand over user data. While that was the most serious case, in
> that it was a national security case, tech companies are constantly going
> to court in the US to preserve users rights to privacy.  Now, from a legal
> perspective, the fact that a company is domiciled in a country, and the
> fact that the country has legal jurisdiction necessarily, from a legal
> perspective, means that the country has more authority over a company.
> That is just a matter of law, in the same way that, say, Safaricom is
> subject to far greater restrictions in Kenya.
> 
> Now, there is a very interesting conversation to be had about how to make
> global law enforcement requests work in a borderless context, and that¹s
> why Facebook and other tech companies are part of a working group to
> identify how to pilot a mechanism that both respects international human
> rights norms (not an easy thing, at all, by the way) and doesn¹t make our
> companies involuntary police, and that keeps people as safe as possible on
> line.
> 
> 
> Links with more information-
> http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/sep/11/yahoo-nsa-lawsuit-documents-fi
> ne-user-data-refusal
> http://news.yahoo.com/judge-orders-google-hand-over-personal-user-data-1825
> 26071.html
> https://transparency.yahoo.com/users-first/index.htm
> https://www.google.com/transparencyreport/userdatarequests/US/
> https://govtrequests.facebook.com/country/United%20States/2015-H1/
> https://www.dropbox.com/transparency/?_tk=mb&_camp=news&_ad=transparency-h1
> -2015&_net=transparency
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Ebele
> Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
> m. +44 (0) 771
> 156 1315
> 2 Stephen St | London | W1T 1AN
> 
> ebeleokobi at fb.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 12/17/15, 1:33 PM, "kictanet on behalf of Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet"
> <kictanet-bounces+ebeleokobi=fb.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke on behalf of
> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> 
> >With all respect, have you ever seen how the Silicon Valley companies
> >treat other countries with contempt especially when it comes to data
> >requests? But when Uncle Sam asks for the information, they are given.
> >
> >Therefore this debate should be more about finding a balance between
> >privacy and the rule of law. This also falls under the broader cross
> >border communication debate that has been raging especially in EU
> >region and Russia. It's a tough nut I admit.
> >
> >On 17/12/2015, Barrack Otieno via kictanet
> ><kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >> Great discussion,
> >>
> >> Would be interesting to get the Communications Authority position on the
> >> same in light of recent statements issued by CBK on bit coins :-)
> >>
> >> Regards
> >> On Dec 17, 2015 3:04 PM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" <
> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>
> >>> Of course-got it!
> >>> I was focusing on the privacy issue, not the operator revenue issue. I
> >>>do
> >>> think it's interesting to think of the fact that operators themselves
> >>> were
> >>> disrupters. . .
> >>>
> >>> Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
> >>>
> >>> m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
> >>>
> >>> 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
> >>>
> >>> ebeleokobi at fb.com
> >>>
> >>> [image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
> >>>
> >>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 11:48 AM, Mose Karanja <mosekaranja at gmail.com>
> >>>wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Uber disrupted the taxi ecosystem so immensely that some taxi unions
> >>> started attacks on Uber the company and Uber the product arguing they
> >>>are
> >>> taxed and licensed yet their new competitors are not taxed. They
> >>>hope(d)
> >>> the regulators would side with their argument. Some did some didn't.
> >>>
> >>> The Uber-moment is thus (in my world) that point in the life of a
> >>> disruptive product when the existing dominant player seeks favor from
> >>>the
> >>> regulators to block that which 'they can't understand'.
> >>>
> >>> Cue in Bob Dylan's Times are A Changing :)
> >>> On 17 Dec 2015 13:31, "Paul Roy" <roykoikai at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>> Ebele,
> >>>>
> >>>> This is going to open a whole set of regulatory concerns around
> >>>>privacy
> >>>> vs. security.
> >>>>
> >>>> Following this keenly!
> >>>>
> >>>> Paul Roy.
> >>>>
> >>>> On Thu, Dec 17, 2015 at 12:55 PM, Ebele Okobi via kictanet <
> >>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>> Uber moment? Tell me more!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> WhatsApp is protecting the privacy rights of its users-here's a FB
> >>>>>post
> >>>>> from WhatsApp's founder, Jan Koum (btw, when you get a chance, look
> >>>>>up
> >>>>> his
> >>>>> personal history. It gives a sense of why he is so passionate about
> >>>>>the
> >>>>> right to privacy.)
> >>>>>
> >>>>> "We are disappointed in the short-sighted decision to cut off access
> >>>>>to
> >>>>> WhatsApp, a communication tool that so many Brazilians have come to
> >>>>> depend
> >>>>> on, and sad to see Brazil isolate itself from the rest of the world."
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Ebele Okobi | Head of Public Policy, Africa
> >>>>>
> >>>>> m. +44 (0) 771 156 1315 <+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 10 Brock Street | London | NW1 3FG
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ebeleokobi at fb.com
> >>>>>
> >>>>> [image: 6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B]
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Dec 17, 2015, at 9:42 AM, Mose Karanja via kictanet <
> >>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke> wrote:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A Brazilian judge has ordered a 48 hour WhatsApp lockdown.
> >>>>> The order claims WhatsApp refused to cooperate with Law Enforcement
> >>>>> agencies on data handover.
> >>>>> The harshness of the verdict is thus seen as a retaliation to show
> >>>>> whois
> >>>>> boss.
> >>>>> However, there is the Telco Lobby pushing for regulation (that word
> >>>>> again) of VOIP (WhatsApp calls) under the claim that Brazilians are
> >>>>>no
> >>>>> longer using voice calls and yet they are taxed for the spectrum
> >>>>>which
> >>>>> WhatsApp is not being taxed for since it is not classified as a
> >>>>>Telco.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You can read more here (in Portuguese):
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.com
> >>>>>.br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dwh
> >>>>>atsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RT
> >>>>>tNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=6UZKq
> >>>>>8H6KDrVTaOQh_0kOsuMCWlU7MmaDt-7yL2JSR4&s=k1ZaIYHa7b4nQsE97V-mdP9uj1l9T
> >>>>>0oPVR0EpAR1F3s&e=
> >>>>> 
> >>>>><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www1.folha.uol.co
> >>>>>m.br_mercado_2015_12_1719934-2Djustica-2Ddetermina-2Dbloqueio-2Ddo-2Dw
> >>>>>hatsapp-2Dem-2Dtodo-2Dbrasil-2Dpor-2D48-2Dhoras.shtml&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0R
> >>>>>TtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=Mvsu
> >>>>>ZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=OnNDfBrAmo3aYDs7JvN9XOyiRKbB
> >>>>>tv7bCuSHwJOFACk&e=>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> or here in English
> >>>>>
> >>>>> 
> >>>>>https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_201
> >>>>>5_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2D
> >>>>>and-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fncid
> >>>>>-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcampa
> >>>>>ign-3DFeed-253A-2BTechcrunch-2B-2528TechCrunch-2529-26utm-5Fcontent-3D
> >>>>>FaceBook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwICAg&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=A
> >>>>>rvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=6UZKq8H6KDrVTaOQh_0kOsuMC
> >>>>>WlU7MmaDt-7yL2JSR4&s=zsGZfCg07SsZpvbxy8rVVY_1mKzcyDFPGaHKtK-RVFI&e=
> >>>>> 
> >>>>><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__techcrunch.com_20
> >>>>>15_12_16_brazils-2Dcongress-2Dhas-2Dshut-2Ddown-2Dwhatsapp-2Dtonight-2
> >>>>>Dand-2Dthe-2Drest-2Dof-2Dthe-2Dsocial-2Dweb-2Dcould-2Dbe-2Dnext_-3Fnci
> >>>>>d-3Drss-26utm-5Fsource-3Dfeedburner-26utm-5Fmedium-3Dfeed-26utm-5Fcamp
> >>>>>aign-3DFeed-3A-2BTechcrunch-2B-28TechCrunch-29-26utm-5Fcontent-3DFaceB
> >>>>>ook-26sr-5Fshare-3Dfacebook&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG
> >>>>>4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9x
> >>>>>rTdd1VIdrRapo&s=zPUHNKuMHDnEiDYedr_bvXqCA2c6fw_35PpqcK_4riI&e=>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> An Uber-moment for WhatsApp.
> >>>>> ---
> >>>>> Moses Karanja | @Mose_Karanja
> >>>>> 
> >>>>><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__twitter.com_Mose
> >>>>>-5FKaranja&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa
> >>>>>9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=T
> >>>>>FUayDnKWSQiLJ5A5taBBVg68OqLz-jB-sZLewQkGk4&e=>
> >>>>>  | PGP: 0x1529552F
> >>>>> 
> >>>>><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__pgp.mit.edu_pks_
> >>>>>lookup-3Fop-3Dindex-26fingerprint-3Don-26search-3D0x1529552F&d=CwMFaQ&
> >>>>>c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE
> >>>>>&m=MvsuZVjTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=o-aNMXG-3V1LbyMmFBOLe
> >>>>>bwzphVqejbK3fQZiyIeVeE&e=>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> 
> >>>>><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.o
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> >>>>>jTPjBi_OMkstBjZebmwW2P9xrTdd1VIdrRapo&s=vd2srCED3auO3LqOWReD7KwZph_GgD
> >>>>>XPfCwES0juYsY&e=>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
> >>>>>platform
> >>>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >>>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
> >>>>>ICT
> >>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >>>>> development.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
> >>>>>behaviors
> >>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> >>>>> bandwidth,
> >>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
> >>>>>privacy,
> >>>>> do
> >>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>>> 
> >>>>><https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__lists.kictanet.o
> >>>>>r.ke_mailman_options_kictanet_roykoikai-2540gmail.com&d=CwMFaQ&c=5VD0R
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> >>>>>Ne2gUUnPAaN9Zw0&e=>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
> >>>>>platform
> >>>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >>>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the
> >>>>>ICT
> >>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >>>>> development.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable
> >>>>>behaviors
> >>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> >>>>> bandwidth,
> >>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
> >>>>>privacy,
> >>>>> do
> >>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> --
> >>>> "Change is slow and gradual. It requires hardwork, a bit of
> >>>> luck, a fair amount of self-sacrifice and a lot of patience."
> >>>>
> >>>> Roy.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> _______________________________________________
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> >>>N8ms_2D_HQM&e= 
> >>>
> >>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> >>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> >>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >>> development.
> >>>
> >>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> >>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> >>> bandwidth,
> >>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
> >>>do
> >>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> >>>
> >>
> >
> >
> >-- 
> >______________________
> >Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
> >twitter.com/lordmwesh
> >
> >The best athletes never started as the best athletes.
> >"You miss 100 percent of the shots you never take." - Wayne Gretzky.
> >I will persist until I succeed - Og Mandino.
> >
> >_______________________________________________
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> >
> >The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
> >for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
> >regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
> >sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
> >development.
> >
> >KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
> >online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
> >bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect
> >privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
> 
> 
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