[kictanet] [ISOC_KE] Fwd: Who should Pay for Netflix? - For and Against Neutrality

Thu Mar 27 08:48:33 EAT 2014

Alex

That sort of argument is what needs to happen in this country. I hear your contention about getting what you pay for. You see the thing about Two-Sided Markets (see below link for definition of two-sided markets) is that its never as simple as we think. That's why a mix of market forces and regulation is best in such cases. However, resorting to extortion (Comcast) and succumbing to it (Netflix) is a dangerous precedence that regulators need to clamp down on ruthlessly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Two-sided_market

Kivuva 

On Net Neutrality issues and the current position of the Jubilee Government on WCIT 12 I'm willing to be the village madman and be like the bulldog who refuses to let go of the bone.

If they don't know about it then what sort of institutional memory do we have? The politicians at the helm may have changed but the civil servant mandarins driving it are still there..all they need to do is ask for a briefing from all concerned. We have continued to ask for a review on the way forward but no one is responding. The fact that they can be selective on what they respond to is abit of a concern. We need to be able to deal with the comfortable, the uncomfortable, the good, the bad and the ugly. That's what leadership is all about. Otherwise we risk being the proverbial Emperor and his new clothes..

Ali Hussein

+254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113

Twitter: @AliHKassim
Skype: abu-jomo
LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
Blog: www.alyhussein.com

"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots".  ~ Albert Einstein

Sent from my iPad

> On Mar 26, 2014, at 6:29 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva <Kivuva at transworldafrica.com> wrote:
> 
> Nderitu, that is not the case and is a misleading position. Comcast was deliberately discriminating and degrading Netflix traffic. This happens even here in Kenya, if you take the marketed "unlimited"packages from our service providers, and you start heavy download, say torrents, you will realise traffic to you will be "discriminated" upon. Netflix had reported that delivery speed of its content to Comcast subscribers had declined by more than 25 percent, resulting in frequent interruptions and delays for customers trying to stream television shows and movies delivered through Netflix. Customers of other providers, including Verizon, also reported delays.
> 
> Paying for preferential access to traffic is a dangerous thing, and FCC needs to trade carefully. That deal would thwart competition among cable and Internet providers, if end users are forced to move to one service provider "Comcast", to access their video, instead of customers having choices viz AT&T and Verizon.
> 
> Network neutrality is the principle that all services and content providers on the Internet should get equal access to an Internet service provider's customers. Anything that goes against that is preferential treatment of traffic and should be rebuked. This is a technique that our ISPs also practice, and through advocacy and sensitizing end users of their rights, it can be stopped.
> 
> 
> Ali, do you think the new kids on the block now what WCIT12  is?
> 
> ______________________
> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya
> twitter.com/lordmwesh
> 
> 
> 
>> On 26 March 2014 17:22, Alex Nderitu <nderitualex at gmail.com> wrote:
>> What Netflix is paying Comcast to do is prioritize Netflix's video traffic on Comcast's network. This therefore is no necessarily a 'sender pays' kind of model but rather the cost of preferential treatment since Netflix video service was being delivered anyway and being treated like every other traffic thereby 'suffering' the challenges that you'd expect with video especially HD in public networks. 
>> 
>> Netflix traffic in the US fixed networks accounts for ~32% of total traffic, expecting service providers to expand their network to meet this kind of capacities to serve only one OTT would be expecting too much. Consumers of this networks also only afford the kind of capacities they buy at the cost that they do as a consequence of a share model. Dedicated capacities to server HD content would be (not considering multicast and other optimization measures) too expensive for both the consumer and the service providers.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On Wed, Mar 26, 2014 at 3:53 PM, Ali Hussein <ali at hussein.me.ke> wrote:
>>> McTim
>>> 
>>> Absolutely right. What I find disturbing is Kenya's silence after the new jubilee government took over.  
>>> 
>>> I have asked severally did we leave WCIT12 unsigned as we left Dubai or have we now signed it? 
>>> 
>>> Who is responsible for this? 
>>> 
>>> Whoever it is you know that the new constitution entitles us to know...
>>> 
>>> Ali Hussein
>>> 
>>> +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
>>> 
>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>> Blog: www.alyhussein.com
>>> 
>>> "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots".  ~ Albert Einstein
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPad
>>> 
>>>> On Mar 26, 2014, at 2:12 PM, McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> FYI, Luigi represents European incumbent telcos as Chair of ETNO : European Telecommunications Network Operators.  He was the proponent of the "sender pays" model during the run up to WCIT.
>>>> 
>>>> In other words, the Internet should be like the telephone billing system.  His "free lunch" idea disregards the fact that you already pay for Internet access AND the fact that Netflix already pays for their access.
>>>> 
>>>> Acknowledging the fact that fiber needs to be deployed to consumer is perhaps the first step in reaching agreement.   Fiber deployment would certainly be in the public interest and is necessary in building the information Society.
>>>> 
>>>> Google (and now others) can make profits at gigabit speeds.  Luigi clearly doesn't want this as it would eat into his members profit margins (97% in the USA, probably similar in the EU):
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> http://www.technologyreview.com/news/514176/google-fibers-ripple-effect/
>>>> 
>>>> In general, there is plenty that the dominant Internet providers can do to provide better deals without much effort, she says. Cable companies like Time Warner Cable and Comcast have the technical capacity to speed up service, and also plenty of room to lower prices, given the estimate from one analyst—Craig Moffet of the Wall Street firm Bernstein Research—that they typically make 97 percent profit margins on Internet services.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Cheers,
>>>> 
>>>> McTim
>>>> "A name indicates what we seek. An address indicates where it is. A route indicates how we get there."  Jon Postel
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, Mar 22, 2014 at 11:17 PM, Ali Hussein <ali at 3mice.com> wrote:
>>>>> Listers
>>>>> 
>>>>> Apologies for cross posting.
>>>>> 
>>>>> I find the blog by Reed Hastings pretty interesting especially after his recent deal with Comcast. 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Ali Hussein
>>>>> 
>>>>> +254 0770 906375 / 0713 601113
>>>>> 
>>>>> Twitter: @AliHKassim
>>>>> Skype: abu-jomo
>>>>> LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim
>>>>> Blog: www.alyhussein.com
>>>>> 
>>>>> "I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots".  ~ Albert Einstein
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from my iPad
>>>>> 
>>>>> Begin forwarded message:
>>>>> 
>>>>>> From: "Luigi Gambardella" <luigi.gambardella at gmail.com>
>>>>>> Date: March 22, 2014 at 7:53:10 PM GMT+3
>>>>>> To: "ali at 3mice.com" <ali at 3mice.com>
>>>>>> Subject: Who should Pay for Netflix?
>>>>>> Reply-To: luigi.gambardella at gmail.com
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Se non legge correttamente questo messaggio, cliccare qui
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Who should Pay for Netflix?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Dear friends,
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I’d like to share with you a great blog post by Jim Cicconi, in response to Reed Hasting’s recent blog.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I share the view that there is a fundamental misunderstanding in the net neutrality debate. While sharing the principle of Open Internet, we cannot accept an interpretation of this principle as “free Internet, free lunch”.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I believe that also in Europe we should avoid implementing any measure going against innovation, better services and that at the end would restrict the freedom of the users.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Luigi Gambardella
>>>>>> 
>>>>>>  
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Who should Pay for Netflix?
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Posted by: Jim Cicconi on March 21, 2014 at 4:08 pm
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> I saw Reed Hasting’s blog <http://blog.netflix.com/2014/03/internet-tolls-and-case-for-strong-net.html> yesterday from Netflix asserting in rather dramatic fashion (with diagrams) that ISPs should build facilities (he said provide, but those facilities have to be built) to accept all of Netflix’s content – indeed all of the content on the Internet – without charge.  Failure to do so, according to Mr. Hastings, was a violation of “strong net neutrality rules” and bad public policy.  I thought it might be helpful to unpack those assertions so we could get right down to the core of Netflix’s rather radical proposition — that people who don’t subscribe to Netflix should nonetheless pay for Netflix. Here are some undisputed facts upon which everyone should agree.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> First, let’s all accept the fact that the advent of streaming video is driving bandwidth consumption by consumers to record levels.  Increased bandwidth consumption and faster broadband networks like our Gigapower service in Austin, Texas (and soon Dallas) are requiring all service providers to drive more fiber into their networks to create the capacity necessary to deliver those services to consumers, whether the service providers are delivering a wireless or a wireline product.  This phenomenon was at the heart of our Project VIP investment announcement in November 2012 and it is true of companies like Cogent, Level 3 and CDNs like Netflix as well.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Second, we should accept that companies must build additional capacity to handle this traffic.  If Netflix was delivering, for example, 10 Terabytes of data in 2012 and increased demand causes them to deliver 20 Terabytes of data in 2013, they will have to build, or hire someone to build, the capacity necessary to handle that increased volume of traffic.  That increase in traffic from Netflix is, by the way, not only the result of a likely increase in online viewing by existing subscribers, but also due to an increase in Netflix’s customer base (it announced a 33% increase in subscribers from 2012 to 2013 – good for Netflix).
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Third, if Netflix is delivering that increased volume of traffic to, say, AT&T, we should accept the fact that AT&T must be ready to build additional ports and transport capacity to accept the new volume of capacity as a consequence of Netflix’s good business fortune.  And I think we can all accept the fact that business service costs are ultimately borne by consumers.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> Mr. Hastings blog post then really comes down to which consumers should pay for the additional bandwidth being delivered to Netflix’s customers.  In the current structure, the increased cost of building that capacity is ultimately borne by Netflix subscribers.  It is a cost of doing business that gets incorporated into Netflix’s subscription rate.   In Netflix’s view, that’s unfair.  In its view, those additional costs, caused by Netflix’s increasing subscriber counts and service usage, should be borne by all broadband subscribers – not just those who sign up for and use Netflix service.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> When Netflix delivered its movies by mail, the cost of delivery was included in the price their customer paid.  It would’ve been neither right nor legal for Netflix to demand a customer’s neighbors pay the cost of delivering his movie.  Yet that’s effectively what Mr. Hastings is demanding here, and in rather self-righteous fashion.  Netflix may now be using an Internet connection instead of the Postal Service, but the same principle applies.  If there’s a cost of delivering Mr. Hastings’s movies at the quality level he desires – and there is – then it should be borne by Netflix and recovered in the price of its service.  That’s how every other form of commerce works in our country.  It’s simply not fair for Mr. Hastings to demand that ISPs provide him with zero delivery costs – at the high quality he demands – for free.  Nor is it fair that other Internet users, who couldn’t care less about Netflix, be forced to subsidize the high costs and stresses its service places on all broadband networks.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> As we all know, there is no free lunch, and there’s also no cost-free delivery of streaming movies.  Someone has to pay that cost.  Mr. Hastings’ arrogant proposition is that everyone else should pay but Netflix.  That may be a nice deal if he can get it.  But it’s not how the Internet, or telecommunication for that matter, has ever worked.
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> http://www.attpublicpolicy.com/
>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
>>>>>> 
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>>>>>> 
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