[kictanet] #KEDebate13
Edith Adera
eadera at idrc.ca
Wed Feb 13 13:30:13 EAT 2013
In other jurisdictions, candidates are required, by law, to be party members for not less than 5 years for them to be eligible to stand for any election (no party hopping at the 11th hour or being a member of 2 parties). I understand in Kenya, parliamentarians removed that clause at the last minute!
Stability in a party to some extent is a sign of budding together due to ideology and not survival as such....the likes of ANC (South Africa); NDC, NPP (Ghana) etc
Edith
From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eadera=idrc.ca at lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of kris njoroge
Sent: February 13, 2013 12:50 PM
To: Edith Adera
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] #KEDebate13
What really is the difference between the candidates? As @Mark has eloquently put it they all say what they think you want to hear without any fact or road map of how we are going to get there and what the time frames are. Political parties are just vehicles to get certain folks to power and nothing more, they stand for nothing and that's why they fall at anything. Only heard that Peter Kenneth's party KNC has been around since the beginning of multi party democracy but I know nothing about what they stand for so. Still early for us to go the manifesto route but empty rhetoric we should shun like saying we will create jobs without showing how they will they do it?
The debate was a farce in my view too many candidates without any real difference in what they stand for. One thing for sure is that we are on the right path - if only we could rid ourselves off the big boys that the Prime Minister alluded to.
The next session should be a debate not a Q&A.
On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Edith Adera <eadera at idrc.ca<mailto:eadera at idrc.ca>> wrote:
George,
We need to be pragmatic at all levels, I agree - during elections...."tear those manifestos apart" with pragmatisms, facts and figures.....once in power hold them to account and remove them if necessary, but we do none of that as Kenyans.
We're very self-centered and only act when it hits home hard (e.g. our families etc). We never stand up for the rights of the majority...that's the problem. In other countries they do....that's an important lesson for all of us as we move into the 2nd republic.
I think it was in this list that Bwana Ndemo said that politicians are naturally "followers", but in Kenya it's the opposite! We allow them to control us rather than the other way round.
Edith
From: George Nyabuga [mailto:george at afrinic.net<mailto:george at afrinic.net>]
Sent: February 13, 2013 11:21 AM
To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions; Edith Adera
Subject: Re: [kictanet] #KEDebate13
Edith,
Without making this a two-way exchange, remember I said this was a tongue-in-cheek comment. That, however, does not negate the crux of my contribution. I would have people think critically about statecraft. Ultimately of course the people hold the leaders to account, and can remove them from power but these mostly at election time. But in Kenya experience teaches us otherwise. Remember we celebrated the promulgation of the constitution, with chapter six dealing explicitly with leadership and integrity. What are seeing now? If we followed that strictly, none of the candidates (bar perhaps Kiyiapi and Diba!) would have stood. What we need beyond manifestos is a serious political culture change both for the leaders and the people. I am being pragmatic. Once these guys get to power, they realise there is little money to pay for education (and they promised free education where parents do not have to pay for anything - uniforms, books, even meals, etc.), free universal health care, defence, security, infrastructure development, etc. So they can promise (and even publicly sign) the manifestos but unless there is a miracle (and I don't really believe in miracles!), they will not achieve much due to budgetary constraints, and emerging challenges. Just being pragmatic although of course we need manifestos to spell out what the candidates, their political parties and, ultimately if they make it, government would do. But mostly it's easier said than do. Ask the bureaucrats and government mandarins in this list.
George
Dr George Nyabuga Tel: +230 403 51 00<tel:%2B230%20403%2051%2000>
Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67 58<tel:%2B230%C2%A0466%2067%2058>
george at afrinic.net<mailto:george at afrinic.net> - www.afrinic.net<http://www.afrinic.net/>
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On Feb 13, 2013, at 11:52 AM, Edith Adera <eadera at idrc.ca<mailto:eadera at idrc.ca>> wrote:
George,
What would you use to hold them to account? Their empty words?
You will be surprised to learn that the women's movement, civil society movement and the masses brought Senegal's current President into power amidst the greatest odds...trying to unseat a POWERFUL incumbent that H.E. Wade was. But they did it. One of the things the movement did was to get the President to physically sign publicly a pledge (manifesto) of what he will do. To-date that's what is used to hold him accountable and remind him of what he promised ad signed to deliver for the people of Senegal.
Why can't Kenyans hold their leaders to account in equal measure?....and what else would you use to do so other than what they have promised in "indelible ink"?
It's when people like you make them think they can get away with empty words is when they do not give what they pledge the seriousness it deserves.
We need to break away from our old mindsets.
Edith
From: George Nyabuga [mailto:george@<mailto:george@>afrinic.net<http://afrinic.net>]
Sent: February 13, 2013 10:39 AM
To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions; Edith Adera
Subject: Re: [kictanet] #KEDebate13
I was equally delighted to listen to the candidates. However, I should say I was disappointed more because of the quality of answers. I might have missed a bit of it as i struggled to watch it online (I eventually decided to listen instead, thanks to live streaming by Capital!), but the guys were not articulate enough and struggled to convince me that they grasp the issues affecting Kenyans. Beyond the mere demagoguery, I did not hear concrete answers on how they would deal with education, health and social problems. Perhaps I was expecting too much. But this was definitely a good start.
Just tongue-in-cheek. Do we need manifestos when they are merely 'pieces of paper'? How do we hold the guys and the parties to account if they fail to deliver? They merely use manifestos as campaign tools, with no intention of fulfilling whatever they have on those papers. I am being cynical because there is no way the 'bigger' boys (to use Raila's words) are going to implement policies of land (distribution), (absolutely) free education. They are merely pulling wool over our eyes and we should be more critical of these, and perhaps use them to determine the way we vote and of course their fate. Unfortunately, many of us do not have the capacity to digest and understand the manifestos. Very unfortunate indeed.
Dr George Nyabuga Tel: +230 403 51 00<tel:%2B230%20403%2051%2000>
Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC Fax: +230 466 67 58<tel:%2B230%C2%A0466%2067%2058>
george at afrinic.net<mailto:george at afrinic.net> - www.afrinic.net<http://www.afrinic.net/>
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Please join us at the Africa Internet Summit, Lusaka, Zambia, 9 - 21 June 2013
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On Feb 13, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Edith Adera <eadera at idrc.ca<mailto:eadera at idrc.ca>> wrote:
Indeed, Kudos to the media for a job well done.
I recall a tweet from Ndemo that morning suggesting that all Kenyans should read the manifestos before the debate so we judge candidates based on their concrete plans and their responses to questions rather than other considerations (e.g. tribal persuasions). I thought this was an interesting prompting and went out in search of the manifestos online....to my disappointment, I only found 2 manifestos...CORD and JUBILEE!!!. None of the others exist online, unless I missed them. Are the other parties embracing the "digital world"?
If anyone has electronic copies of the other 6 manifestos, please share on the list
Listers, What should be different in Debate No 2?
Edith
-----Original Message-----
From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-<mailto:kictanet->bounces+eadera=idrc.ca at lists.kictanet.or.ke<mailto:bounces+eadera=idrc.ca at lists.kictanet.or.ke>] On Behalf Of Harry Delano
Sent: February 13, 2013 9:20 AM
To: Edith Adera
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] #KEDebate13
Alice Best,
I was lurking in the shadows until I took note that the landmark debate in question has not been given 'kipao mbele' here. If I could raise 'hue and cry', that ICT wasn't given the due mileage in that debate, then we could sensitize candidates before the next one that, this is a driver of the current and future economy. Meanwhile, just noticed all the well articulated positions had little or non to borrow from the debate we had a while back here quizzing Dr. Ndemo as a 'future' candidate. If you ask me, the aspirants would benefit a lot from his insights that he widely shared here. Maybe at a consultancy fee..? Just me..
Harry
Alice Munyua <alice at apc.org<mailto:alice at apc.org>> wrote:
>Kudos to the media for organising our first ever presidential debate.
>It was an important milestone. Very interesting, dealt with real
>issues and was also quite entertaining.
>
>
>Best
>Alice
>
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>
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