[kictanet] #KEDebate13

[kris njoroge]

What really is the difference between the candidates? As @Mark has
eloquently put it they all say what they think you want to hear without any
fact or  road map of how we are going to get there and what the time frames
are. Political parties are just vehicles to get certain folks to power and
nothing more, they stand for nothing and that's why they fall at anything.
Only heard that Peter Kenneth's party KNC has been around since
the beginning of multi party democracy but  I know nothing about what they
stand for so. Still early for us to go the manifesto route but empty
rhetoric we should shun like saying we will create jobs without showing how
they will they do it?

The debate was a farce in my view too many candidates without any real
difference in what they stand for. One thing for sure is that we are on the
right path - if only we could rid ourselves off the big boys that the Prime
Minister alluded to.

The next session should be a debate not a Q&A.


On Wed, Feb 13, 2013 at 9:54 AM, Edith Adera <eadera at idrc.ca> wrote:

>  George,****
>
> ** **
>
> We need to be pragmatic at all levels, I agree – during elections….“tear
> those manifestos apart” with pragmatisms, facts and figures…..once in power
> hold them to account and remove them if necessary, but we do none of that
> as Kenyans.****
>
> ** **
>
> We’re very self-centered and only act when it hits home hard (e.g. our
> families etc). We never stand up for the rights of the majority…that’s the
> problem. In other countries they do….that’s an important lesson for all of
> us as we move into the 2nd republic.****
>
> ** **
>
> I think it was in this list that Bwana Ndemo said that politicians are
> naturally “followers”, but in Kenya it’s the opposite! We allow them to
> control us rather than the other way round.****
>
> ** **
>
> Edith****
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* George Nyabuga [mailto:george at afrinic.net]
> *Sent:* February 13, 2013 11:21 AM
>
> *To:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions; Edith Adera
> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] #KEDebate13****
>
>  ** **
>
> Edith,****
>
> ** **
>
> Without making this a two-way exchange, remember I said this was a
> tongue-in-cheek comment. That, however, does not negate the crux of my
> contribution. I would have people think critically about statecraft.
> Ultimately of course the people hold the leaders to account, and can remove
> them from power but these mostly at election time. But in Kenya experience
> teaches us otherwise. Remember we celebrated the promulgation of the
> constitution, with chapter six dealing explicitly with leadership and
> integrity. What are seeing now? If we followed that strictly, none of the
> candidates (bar perhaps Kiyiapi and Diba!) would have stood. What we need
> beyond manifestos is a serious political culture change both for the
> leaders and the people. I am being pragmatic. Once these guys get to power,
> they realise there is little money to pay for education (and they promised
> free education where parents do not have to pay for anything - uniforms,
> books, even meals, etc.), free universal health care, defence, security,
> infrastructure development, etc. So they can promise (and even publicly
> sign) the manifestos but unless there is a miracle (and I don't really
> believe in miracles!), they will not achieve much due to budgetary
> constraints, and emerging challenges. Just being pragmatic although of
> course we need manifestos to spell out what the candidates, their political
> parties and, ultimately if they make it, government would do. But mostly
> it's easier said than do. Ask the bureaucrats and government mandarins in
> this list. ****
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> George****
>
> ** **
>
> Dr George Nyabuga                                                 Tel:   +230
> 403 51 00
> Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC           Fax:  +230 466 67 58****
>
> george at afrinic.net - www.afrinic.net
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please join us at the Africa Internet Summit, Lusaka, Zambia, 9 – 21 June
> 2013
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ****
>
> ** **
>
> On Feb 13, 2013, at 11:52 AM, Edith Adera <eadera at idrc.ca> wrote:****
>
>
>
> ****
>
> George,****
>
>  ****
>
> What would you use to hold them to account? Their empty words?****
>
>  ****
>
> You will be surprised to learn that the women’s movement, civil society
> movement and the masses brought Senegal’s current President into power
> amidst the greatest odds…trying to unseat a POWERFUL incumbent that H.E.
> Wade was. But they did it. One of the things the movement did was to get
> the President to physically sign publicly a pledge (manifesto) of what he
> will do. To-date that’s what is used to hold him accountable and remind him
> of what he promised ad signed to deliver for the people of Senegal.****
>
>  ****
>
> Why can’t Kenyans hold their leaders to account in equal measure?....and
> what else would you use to do so other than what they have promised in
> ”indelible ink”?****
>
>  ****
>
> It’s when people like you make them think they can get away with empty
> words is when they do not give what they pledge the seriousness it deserves.
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> We need to break away from our old mindsets.****
>
>  ****
>
> Edith****
>
> * *****
>
> * *****
>
> * *****
>
> * *****
>
>  ****
>
> *From:* George Nyabuga [mailto:george at afrinic.net]
> *Sent:* February 13, 2013 10:39 AM
> *To:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions; Edith Adera
> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] #KEDebate13****
>
>  ****
>
> I was equally delighted to listen to the candidates. However, I should say
> I was disappointed more because of the quality of answers. I might have
> missed a bit of it as i struggled to watch it online (I eventually decided
> to listen instead, thanks to live streaming by Capital!), but the guys were
> not articulate enough and struggled to convince me that they grasp the
> issues affecting Kenyans. Beyond the mere demagoguery, I did not hear
> concrete answers on how they would deal with education, health and social
> problems. Perhaps I was expecting too much. But this was definitely a good
> start.****
>
>  ****
>
> Just tongue-in-cheek. Do we need manifestos when they are merely 'pieces
> of paper'? How do we hold the guys and the parties to account if they fail
> to deliver? They merely use manifestos as campaign tools, with no intention
> of fulfilling whatever they have on those papers. I am being cynical
> because there is no way the 'bigger' boys (to use Raila's words) are going
> to implement policies of land (distribution), (absolutely) free education.
> They are merely pulling wool over our eyes and we should be more critical
> of these, and perhaps use them to determine the way we vote and of course
> their fate. Unfortunately, many of us do not have the capacity to digest
> and understand the manifestos. Very unfortunate indeed.****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> Dr George Nyabuga                                                 Tel:   +230
> 403 51 00
> Head, Communications and PR, AFRINIC           Fax:  +230 466 67 58****
>
> george at afrinic.net - www.afrinic.net
>
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Please join us at the Africa Internet Summit, Lusaka, Zambia, 9 – 21 June
> 2013
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> ****
>
>  ****
>
> On Feb 13, 2013, at 11:10 AM, Edith Adera <eadera at idrc.ca> wrote:****
>
>
>
>
> ****
>
> Indeed, Kudos to the media for a job well done.****
>
>  ****
>
> I recall a tweet from Ndemo that morning suggesting that all Kenyans
> should read the manifestos before the debate so we judge candidates based
> on their concrete plans and their responses to questions rather than other
> considerations (e.g. tribal persuasions). I thought this was an interesting
> prompting and went out in search of the manifestos online....to my
> disappointment, I only found 2 manifestos...CORD and JUBILEE!!!. None of
> the others exist online, unless I missed them. Are the other parties
> embracing the "digital world"?****
>
>  ****
>
> If anyone has electronic copies of the other 6 manifestos, please share on
> the list****
>
>  ****
>
> Listers, What should be different in Debate No 2?****
>
>  ****
>
> Edith****
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kictanet [mailto:kictanet-
> bounces+eadera=idrc.ca at lists.kictanet.or.ke] On Behalf Of Harry Delano
> Sent: February 13, 2013 9:20 AM
> To: Edith Adera
> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] #KEDebate13****
>
>  ****
>
> Alice Best,****
>
>  ****
>
> I was lurking in the shadows until I took note that the landmark  debate
> in question has not been given 'kipao mbele' here. If I could raise 'hue
> and cry', that ICT wasn't given the due mileage in that debate, then we
> could sensitize candidates before the next one that, this is a driver of
> the current and future economy. Meanwhile, just noticed all the well
> articulated positions had little or non to borrow from the debate we had a
> while back here quizzing Dr. Ndemo as a 'future' candidate. If you ask me,
> the aspirants would benefit a lot from his insights that he widely shared
> here. Maybe at a consultancy fee..? Just me..****
>
>  ****
>
> Harry****
>
>  ****
>
>  ****
>
> Alice Munyua <alice at apc.org> wrote:****
>
>  ****
>
> >Kudos to the media for organising our first ever presidential debate.****
>
> >It was an important milestone.  Very interesting, dealt with real****
>
> >issues and was also quite entertaining.****
>
> > ****
>
> > ****
>
> >Best****
>
> >Alice****
>
> > ****
>
> > ****
>
> > ****
>
> > ****
>
> > ****
>
> > ****
>
> >--****
>
> > ****
>
> > ****
>
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>
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