[kictanet] The Sheng Question

Tue Feb 28 08:36:17 EAT 2012

@lordmwesh - then by these definitions Kiswahili is a type of Creole?
(after mixing various Bantu languages, Arabic, Portuguese,  Chinese,
English, etc) .....and having said that, then Sheng is indeed a
dialect since the original (and still evolving) Kiswahili - spoken
widely from Mocambique to the DRC, varies quite a lot.   In the DRC
they speak in past tense and plural - even if talking of one self in
the present...

I like the discourse on Baabi and its usage :-)  I did surprise a
seasoned (albeit somewhat young) Sheng speaker who did not know the
etymology of that word and its inclusion in Sheng.   And thinking of
this word, and seeing how Sheng itself has a sub-culture....some of
the words are contributed by sub-sub (?) cultures like Rastafarianism
(where "Babylonian" i.e.  Mbaabi, comes from).

sheng.co.ke does not seem to work....was keen to see if it would
provide more than definitions...

On 27 February 2012 20:57, lordmwesh <lordmwesh at gmail.com> wrote:
> Pidgin, noun: Any language which consists of a mixture of other
> languages (Chambers concise usage Dictionary).
>
> Creole: A stable, fully fledged natural language developed from mixing
> of parent languages (Wikipedia extracted 27th February 2012).
>
> Dialect, noun: A way of speaking found only in a certain area or among
> a certain group or class of people (Chambers concise usage
> Dictionary).
>
> From these definitions, Sheng is ...
>
> On 27/02/2012, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) <nmutungu at gmail.com> wrote:
>> While it is good to speak Swahili, English etc, it is also good to enjoy
>> culture, and sheng is our culture right now (Ask Tuju:)
>> Daniel and Rigia, thanks for the resources.
>> Now I need a clarification, Daniel points to a paper stating that Sheng is
>> not creole or pidgin,but a dialect. Warigia says its pidgin or
>> creole.....which is which?
>>
>> rgds
>>
>> 2012/2/27 Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau <solo.mburu at gmail.com>
>>
>>> Thanks Rigia for the clarification
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 27 February 2012 20:06, Warigia Bowman <warigia at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Dear Solomon
>>>>
>>>> Sheng is clearly a dialect, not a language. I did not say that Sheng is
>>>> an endangered language. I said I work on kamusi, which works on
>>>> digitizing
>>>> endangered languages. I said Sheng is a creole, or as someone else
>>>> mentioned, a pidgin.
>>>>
>>>> Yours, Rigia
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 10:56 AM, Solomon Mbũrũ Kamau <
>>>> solo.mburu at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Good people,
>>>>>
>>>>> AFAIK, sheng is not a language. For a language to fit in that category,
>>>>> it takes a long period of time to develop in terms of phonetics etc. But
>>>>> with Sheng, today you refer to something, tomorrow, it's not referred
>>>>> so,
>>>>> yet it has not changed a bit. Sheng is a mode of communication which is
>>>>> popular in one area.
>>>>> And Wairigia, how do you categorize sheng as an endangered language, yet
>>>>> it does not qualify as one?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> On 27 February 2012 19:39, Warigia Bowman <warigia at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Wapendwa Wenzangu
>>>>>>
>>>>>> It would be good if we could all speak 1) Kiswahili Sanifu 2) Our local
>>>>>> language and 3) some colonial language such as English or French
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I am on the board of www.kamusi.org. We are interested in digitizing
>>>>>> endangered languages.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sheng is a vibrant and growing creole, and should be respected as such.
>>>>>> It probably does not need formalizing, as it is living and changing
>>>>>> daily,
>>>>>> but it may benefit from documentation.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Warigia
>>>>>>
>>>>>>  On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 10:27 AM, Daniel Waweru <
>>>>>> daniel.waweru at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>  (1) Sheng is already widely-spoken in urban bits of Kenya, and
>>>>>>> knowledge of it is essential effectively to communicate with anyone
>>>>>>> under
>>>>>>> 40.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (2) There's good research indicating that Sheng is not a creole or a
>>>>>>> pidgin, but rather a dialect of Swahili. (Paper by Chege Githiora
>>>>>>> attached.)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> (3) It is thoroughly mysterious why Kenyans should speak only those
>>>>>>> languages that are widely spoken by its trading partners, especially
>>>>>>> in
>>>>>>> light of the fact that those trading partners do not speak only the
>>>>>>> language of their trading partners. Chinese, which you seem to have
>>>>>>> assumed
>>>>>>> is a single language, is actually a family of dialects, several of
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> are not mutually intelligible. I have not seen any move by the
>>>>>>> government
>>>>>>> of China to restrict their use, or formal study of them, on the ground
>>>>>>> that
>>>>>>> it is time to use only English.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Daniel Waweru
>>>>>>> www.kenyaimagine.com
>>>>>>> Art and analysis; debate and opinion.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 27 February 2012 11:18, James Mbugua <jgmbugua at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sheng will go nowhere and formalization is a waste of time.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The 1billion Chinese and the 1billion Indians and 600million
>>>>>>>> Europeans
>>>>>>>> and nearly 800million Africans do not and will not speak it.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> English as we all know is the language of business and Vision 2030
>>>>>>>> requires us to monumentally grow our export and services sector which
>>>>>>>> requires international interaction.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Sheng, like Nigerian and Jamaican pidgin is in safe hands with touts
>>>>>>>> and DJs. They will keep the flame alive.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Regards
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On Mon, Feb 27, 2012 at 2:02 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>> > Hi All,
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > I believe that if we are serious about turning sheng into a formal
>>>>>>>> language
>>>>>>>> > then we need a site like http://www.urbandictionary.com/ if we are
>>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>>> > harmonise across the country or region.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > As I keep repeating, annoyingly, I grew up in eastlands (mimi sio
>>>>>>>> mbabi) and
>>>>>>>> > one thing I know is that sheng is not homogeneous beyond 100 meters
>>>>>>>> of where
>>>>>>>> > you are standing.
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Regards
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Robert Yawe
>>>>>>>> > KAY System Technologies Ltd
>>>>>>>> > Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>>>>>>>> > P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>>>>>>>> > Kenya
>>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>>> > Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>>>>>>> >
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>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT
>>>>>>>> policy
>>>>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in
>>>>>>>> the ICT
>>>>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
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>>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> kictanet mailing list
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>>>>>>>
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>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder
>>>>>>> platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT
>>>>>>> policy
>>>>>>> and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in
>>>>>>> the ICT
>>>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
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>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Dr. Warigia Bowman
>>>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>>>> Clinton School of Public Service
>>>>>> University of Arkansas
>>>>>> 1200 President Clinton Ave.
>>>>>> Sturgis Hall
>>>>>> Little Rock, AR 72201
>>>>>> 501-683-5227
>>>>>>  wbowman at clintonschool.uasys.edu
>>>>>> http://democratizingegypt.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> kictanet mailing list
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>>>>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/solo.mburu%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>>>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>>>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>>>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>>>>> development.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>>>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and
>>>>>> bandwidth,
>>>>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,
>>>>>> do
>>>>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Dr. Warigia Bowman
>>>> Assistant Professor
>>>> Clinton School of Public Service
>>>> University of Arkansas
>>>> 1200 President Clinton Ave.
>>>> Sturgis Hall
>>>> Little Rock, AR 72201
>>>> 501-683-5227
>>>> wbowman at clintonschool.uasys.edu
>>>> http://democratizingegypt.blogspot.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform
>>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and
>>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT
>>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and
>>> development.
>>>
>>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors
>>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,
>>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do
>>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Grace L.N. Mutung'u (Bomu)
>> Kenya
>> Skype: gracebomu
>> Twitter: GraceMutung'u (Bomu)
>>
>
>
> --
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>
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