[kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
robert yawe
robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk
Mon Sep 27 18:34:38 EAT 2010
http://www.greenstar.org/butterflies/Hole-in-the-Wall.htm
Robert Yawe
KAY System Technologies Ltd
Phoenix House, 6th Floor
P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
Kenya
Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
________________________________
From: Mark Mwangi <mwangy at gmail.com>
To: robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
Sent: Mon, 27 September, 2010 10:14:15
Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
Arguing that the low income earners will have little to do on the interwebs is
abit short sighted if you ask me. Same arguments were supplied when the mobile
phone was introduced. As Andrea said, it is abit patronising imagining that a
guy in mukuru slum would have little use for email and Facebook. How different
is he from us? It is not content that spurs access but access that spurs
content. If all the guys in the slums had access to a good connection they would
create content THEMSELVES not be fed patronising content veiled as aid by some
guy seated in a plush office waxing lyrical to foreign donors.
On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 2:20 AM, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri at semacraft.com> wrote:
Hi Andrea. You may be right, their interests may not be drastically different
from those a bit more flush with cash or unbothered by the lack of it. It may be
Chivas for one but Chang'aa for another. At the end of the day it's alcohol for
both of them. However, to be meaningful to the lower income individual, the
alcohol would have to be delivered differently. Content that seeks to empower me
will mostly be delivered in the format that works for the devices I am
accustomed to. For my friend who is bootstrapping to start a car repair shop,
his cellphone is everything to him. To empower him, content on the subject
needs to be delivered in a format that works for HIS device.
>
>
>If FM radio has the kind of content that results in high levels of audience
>engagement, how can it be ported onto the Internet? If sales of FM radio phones
>have gone up because of the conversations happening on that space, won't sales
>of data enabled phones go up because meaningful conversations are happening
>online? More people taking up bandwidth may result in better economies of scale
>for network operators and lower costs for consumers (in my own little utopia at
>least) due to better headroom for competition. Better pricing would keep the
>government from entertaining populist ideas like price controls for bandwidth
>because supply and demand would have been modified to the customer's benefit.
>
>
>Little content, few subscribers, high prices. Let's make the Internet a place
>where [many] people want to go.
>
>
>
>Kind regards,
>
>Muchiri Nyaggah
>Director
>@muchiri
>+254 722 506400
>Semacraft.com
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>On Mon, Sep 27, 2010 at 12:56 AM, Andrea Bohnstedt
><andrea.bohnstedt at ratio-magazine.com> wrote:
>
>Hey all,
>>
>>I really dislike the term 'bottom of the pyramid' or 'bottom billion' - I find
>>those expression quite patronising. How about low-income clients or something
>>along those lines?
>>
>>
>>But that's by the by. I actually doubt that the so-called 'bottom billion' has
>>so drastically different interests than the more middle class subscribers. I
>>suspect that email/staying in touch, online dating, music and adult content are
>>just as popular. Being poor doesn't automatically make you a more virtuous
>>person. Look at people who buy changaa: barely any disposable income. And yet
>>they'd still spend it on alcohol.
>>
>>
>>This is the big irony: with internet connectivity, we have a load of information
>>at our fingertips. But few people actually bother looking it up. I see the
>>wildest speculation and conspiracy theories on Facebook that would take to a
>>couple of seconds to clear up with a google search - but people don't do it. I
>>suspect you must have learned how to ask questions, ask the right questions,
>>search for information, figure out how to evaluate information etc. (and yes,
>>I'm generalising here).
>>
>>
>>Another thought: People already create content for the low-income segment - it's
>>just delivered through FM stations rather than the internet.
>>
>>
>>Have a good week,
>>Andrea
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>On 26 September 2010 01:22, Muchiri Nyaggah <muchiri at semacraft.com> wrote:
>>
>>The Internet is a highway (a super one even) that takes us where we want to go.
>>I believe there's a lot of local content online, its just not very meaningful
>>for the vast majority living at the bottom of the pyramid. People who are busy
>>trying to put food on the table won't get on the highway to go to a place called
>>'Hot or Not.' It's just not meaningful. I agree with Brian, for-profit
>>enterprises have no reason to drop prices unless it becomes necessary for their
>>survival. It will become necessary when the current realities of doing business
>>are modified by say, a drop in demand for the high-cost Internet they are
>>supplying.
>>>
>>>
>>>As long we continue focusing on content such as blog posts, YouTube videos and
>>>entertainment applications, only those with disposable income or time will be
>>>consuming it. The real fortune for ISPs (like CK Prahalad said) lies at the
>>>bottom of the pyramid but until we generate content and applications that make
>>>meaning for the masses, we may have to live with a slow drop in prices much
>>>longer than we prefer to.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Don't expect ISPs to create the content either. They are in the 'transport'
>>>business. They are lousy at creating content.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>Kind regards,
>>>
>>>Muchiri Nyaggah
>>>Director
>>>@muchiri
>>>+254 722 506400
>>>Semacraft.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 2:36 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>>
>>>Hi,
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Your current ISP charges you $500 for a 1MB link from your location to his edge
>>>>router, after that it is called best effort especially since most ISPs do not
>>>>have bandwidth managers.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>I will take this seriously and do not back down when I come to you to
signup.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Regards
>>>> Robert Yawe
>>>>KAY System Technologies Ltd
>>>>Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>>>>P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>>>>Kenya
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
________________________________
From: Agosta Liko <agostal at gmail.com>
>>>>To: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>>Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 10:01:06
>>>>
>>>>Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>no Robert
>>>>
>>>>1MB for 50USD ... to anywhere ... I dont get limitations from my
>>>>current providers
>>>>
>>>>your thoughts ?
>>>>
>>>>On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 10:00 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>> Fine, so long as it is local loop from your office to your collocation
>>>>> centre where you will be providing SaaS solutions.
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert Yawe
>>>>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>>>>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>>>>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>>>>> Kenya
>>>>>
>>>>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>>>>
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Agosta Liko <agostal at gmail.com>
>>>>> To: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>>> Sent: Fri, 24 September, 2010 9:50:23
>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
>>>>>
>>>>> Robert
>>>>>
>>>>> Si you start an ISP ? ... with 1:1 @ USD50 per MB ... I will be a customer
>>>>>
>>>>> Just thinking
>>>>>
>>>>> On Fri, Sep 24, 2010 at 9:44 AM, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>wrote:
>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>> When we talk about 1 MB for $500/- I believe we are referring to a
>>>>>> dedicated
>>>>>> connection with a contention ratio of 1:1 not shared provided by the ISPs
>>>>>> of
>>>>>> 1:∞. So the ISP buys the 1 MB at $500/- dollars and sells it to 20
>>>>>> subscribers at $50/- a culture they developed during the good old days of
>>>>>> satellite.
>>>>>> In addition the 1 MB is not from your equipment to the ISP but should be
>>>>>> the
>>>>>> entire route into the Internet. Exploited we still are and as has been
>>>>>> said
>>>>>> by many the prices have still not come down sufficiently.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Robert Yawe
>>>>>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>>>>>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>>>>>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>>>>>> Kenya
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>>> From: Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe at gmail.com>
>>>>>> To: robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk
>>>>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>>>> Sent: Thu, 23 September, 2010 17:21:40
>>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm sorry to sound like a broken record but I don't know any ISP in Kenya
>>>>>> selling 1Mb for >$500 - and anybody who is being extorted like this
should
>>>>>> go to a reputable ISP and get their service for tens of dollars, not
>>>>>> hundreds....
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Brian
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 3:48 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari at lynxbits.com>
>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> “naomba serikali” or not…government policies ultimately affect demand
and
>>>>>>> supply laws in any market. While the call here is not to go the Finish
>>>>>>> way
>>>>>>> of making it a right for all citizens to have access to 1Mb of broadband
>>>>>>> by
>>>>>>> 2015, or UK’s 2Mb, GOK can move to create an environment that will
>>>>>>> encourage
>>>>>>> our good ISPs lower the current rates, currently >$500- remember, the
>>>>>>> potential bulk users in Kenya earn <$1/day!
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Edwin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a
>>>>>>> pocket
>>>>>>> full of holes.
>>>>>>> DAVID TOOMA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: Brian Munyao Longwe [mailto:blongwe at gmail.com]
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 4:20 PM
>>>>>>> To: Edwin Onchari
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Is this another case of "naomba serikali inisaidie" - which is to
typical
>>>>>>> of us Kenyans....
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> It is my firm belief that we have a free and open market for internet
>>>>>>> services in Kenya - with little or no barriers to entry for any player.
>>>>>>> Could it just be that the rules of supply and demand are applying and
>>>>>>> thereby preventing the "drastic" drops in pricing that it seems many of
>>>>>>> use
>>>>>>> are dreaming about?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I think Walu is asking the right kinds of questions - how do we adjust
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> supply/demand equation to bring about the desired results?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In my honest opinion government has been doing a good job of staying out
>>>>>>> of business - let's keep it that way.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Regards,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Brian
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 2:16 PM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari at lynxbits.com>
>>>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Better yet, GOK should slice up its 40% stake and sell to smaller
>>>>>>> businesses that are willing to play ball, so that Kenyans are not at the
>>>>>>> mercy of a handful ISPs that cannot get their act together
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Edwin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Sales without Customer Service........is like stuffing money into a
>>>>>>> pocket
>>>>>>> full of holes.
>>>>>>> DAVID TOOMA
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>>>> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+eonchari=lynxbits.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke] On
>>>>>>> Behalf Of Harry Hare
>>>>>>> Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2010 2:35 PM
>>>>>>> To: Edwin
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hello All,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Who in this forum thought it possible to enjoy the new calling rates
>>>>>>> which
>>>>>>> are 50% of what we used to pay? My point, we need a disruptive force
that
>>>>>>> will force the ISPs to lower their rates. The Government still hold 40%
>>>>>>> of
>>>>>>> TEAMS, and I remember the PS once saying that he will use this if the
>>>>>>> operators fail to drop their costs. Probably this is the time...this,
>>>>>>> together with NOFBI, the ministry has capacity to roll out a project
>like
>>>>>>> -
>>>>>>> “free internet for all”, another first from Kenya.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Think about it.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Harry
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On 9/23/10 2:14 PM, "Walubengo J" <jwalu at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Yes WHOLESALE prices are down by 80% but RETAIL prices remain relatively
>>>>>>> high. Are the ISP/Telco eating up the difference by way of
>>>>>>> SUPER-PROFITS?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Not sure. There are multiple and intermediary variables that play
between
>>>>>>> the Wholesale Level and the Retail Level that includes, but not limited
>>>>>>> to
>>>>>>> Cost of Local loops, Usage/Volume Levels, Local Content, Regulatory&
>>>>>>> Competition Environments, Charging Models, etc.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> The challenge is to get a way in which to measure and establish which of
>>>>>>> the above variables will have the biggest, positive and sustainable
>>>>>>> impact
>>>>>>> on Retail Internet pricing. Worse still, a "wrong" distortion of any of
>>>>>>> the
>>>>>>> above maybe counterproductive to the others in the long run. It requires
>>>>>>> a
>>>>>>> delicate balance of the whole ecosystem.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> But perhaps I could be wrong..
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> walu.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --- On Thu, 9/23/10, McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> From: McTim <dogwallah at gmail.com>
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] ISPs slap Ndemo
>>>>>>> To: jwalu at yahoo.com
>>>>>>> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>>>>> Date: Thursday, September 23, 2010, 2:28 PM
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On Thu, Sep 23, 2010 at 11:19 AM, Edwin Onchari <eonchari at lynxbits.com
>>>>>>> </mc/compose?to=eonchari at lynxbits.com> > wrote:
>>>>>>> > Yes Dennis,
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> >
>>>>>>> > Take the case of the US for instance. 1 Mb (dedicated) is going for
>>>>>>> > less
>>>>>>> > than $50…
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wholesale cost there is ~$2.50 for 1 Mb/sec
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >in Kenya, it’s anything between $500-$800.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Wholesale price in Kenya? Around 50 USD per Mb/sec (in Mombasa) is
>>>>>>> what I heard recently from an industry player. That is probably for a
>>>>>>> volume purchase of course.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> African eDevelopment Resource Centre
>>>>>>> eDevelopment House : : 604 Limuru Road
>>>>>>> Old Muthaiga : : P O Box 49475 00100
>>>>>>> Nairobi : : Kenya
>>>>>>> T +254 20 3741646/7 : : C +254 725 650044
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Training : : Research: :Consultancy: : Publishing
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10
>>>>>>> 18:40:00
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This message was sent to: blongwe at gmail.com
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>>>>>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/blongwe%40gmail.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Brian Munyao Longwe
>>>>>>> e-mail: blongwe at gmail.com
>>>>>>> cell: + 254 722 518 744
>>>>>>> blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com
>>>>>>> meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> No virus found in this incoming message.
>>>>>>> Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
>>>>>>> Version: 8.5.445 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3153 - Release Date: 09/22/10
>>>>>>> 18:40:00
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Brian Munyao Longwe
>>>>>> e-mail: blongwe at gmail.com
>>>>>> cell: + 254 722 518 744
>>>>>> blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com
>>>>>> meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>>>
>>>>>> This message was sent to: agostal at gmail.com
>>>>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>>>>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/agostal%40gmail.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>_______________________________________________
>>>>kictanet mailing list
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>>>>
>>>>This message was sent to: muchiri at semacraft.com
>>>>Unsubscribe or change your options at
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>_______________________________________________
>>>kictanet mailing list
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>>>
>>>
>>>This message was sent to: andrea.bohnstedt at ratio-magazine.com
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>>>http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/andrea.bohnstedt%40ratio-magazine.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>Andrea Bohnstedt
>>Publisher
>>+254 720 960 322
>>www.ratio-magazine.com
>>
>
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--
Regards,
Mark Mwangi
http://mwangy.posterous.com
Skype : mark.mwangy
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