[kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus

Wed Apr 7 15:47:08 EAT 2010

Harry

I agree with your view .. but my point is before we rate what everyone
else has done(wrong) we should at least try and do something. Even the
smallest consulting company {1 man show} can build a simple site to
simplify stuff ... or to put all government ICT strategy documents.

The bus project may not be the best .. but do we honestly think that
having those pcs in a lab in a central place will have the same effect
?

Again. Its 2010, we have cheap internet, power does not potea as much,
roads are better ......

IBM had some good ads about the Doing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziOG_GHNVq0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MudaxA80eI4

On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 2:13 PM, Harry Delano <harry at comtelsys.co.ke> wrote:
>
>
> Listers,
>
> Let's keep the debate on course, without necessarily bringing each other
> within "cross-hairs"
>
> I suppose, all of us have a point. The issue is where can we get to a point
> of "convergence",
> as in the final analysis, we all would like to see a more prosperous country
> through fast-tracked
> processes that do not take us round in circles.
>
> So, let's keep it going..
>
> Harry
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke at lists.kictanet.or.ke] On
> Behalf Of Agosta Liko
> Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:40 PM
> To: harry at comtelsys.co.ke
> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>
> my point is really simple.
>
> we have broadband, security is better, roads are better.
>
> what are you doing as a Kenyan ?
>
> am saying start with the man in the mirror and then po
>
> int fingers...
>
> On 4/7/10, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Hi Liko,
>>
>> Please make a trip to any government office location and count how
>> many vehicles are grounded, if they cannot sort out a toyota vits that
>> operated within Nairobi how do you expect them to service a bus that
>> travels around a district?
>>
>> In todays paper there is an issue of funds allocated to a
>> none-existent hospital in Kayole can your imagine how much easier it
>> will be to misdirect funds to a moving object.
>>
>> It is good that you got to experience the moving bus so do you want us
>> to stop schools from stocking their local libraries, the moving movies
>> died because TVs became cheaper and we bought VCRs.  A technology must
>> be looked at in the context of time.
>>
>> The moving bus can be equated to the computer lab at the Univeristy,
>> yet we can today provide every student with a desktop in their room or
>> a laptop to carry around at the same price.  If safaricom can
>> negotiate for a laptop at
>> 24,000/- shillings imagine how much more muscle the government has,
>> but it wont because the decision makers still remember the travelling
>> library and refuse to change with the times.
>>
>> Just to go back to the 2007 elections when Orange house was raided by
>> thugs and Hon. Nyongo said that is was instigated by their opponents
>> to get access to their membership list, this was a clear indication
>> that he has not used a flash disk or send a file attachment because he
>> still remembers the airconditioned computer room when he was in
> University.
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Think global, act local
>>  Robert Yawe
>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>> Kenya
>>
>>
>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Agosta Liko <agostal at gmail.com>
>> To: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> Sent: Wed, 7 April, 2010 13:12:08
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>
>> Robert
>>
>> I really dont see an issue with internet by bus.. its a step in the
>> right direction ... can be made better but one has to start from
>> somewhere. Internet by bus would work well cos the bus would move
>> around schools bringing workstations to many places. If a constituency
>> has 10 workstations, one can make the case that making them mobile
>> would serve more people as opposed to putting them in one location
>>
>> When I was growing up Kenya National Library used to bring books, KCB
>> used to have a landrover to bring banking to the people and Cinema Leo
>> used to bring movies. With time, that model has died ... but it served
>> a purpose.....
>>
>> see, there is a big challenge in kenya
>>
>> if you give schools desktops ... some people would say laptops are a
>> better fit
>>
>> if you give schools laptops ... some people would say desktops are
>> better fit and hard to steal
>>
>>
>> You say that BPO is a joke ... I am sure that over 3000 kenyans work
>> in that sector now ... and its all semantics if you look at things.
>> See, Your company manages services {at Orange :) } for clients. So you
>> are in the local BPO ....
>>
>> I respond because I borrowed books from that Kenya National Library
>> bus, Watched Films at the market and I work in the local BPO sector.
>>
>> Also ... please take time and go through this speech by JFK ...
>> http://www.famousquotes.me.uk/speeches/John_F_Kennedy/5.htm
>>
>> Incase you are very busy .. Its always summed up as follows
>>
>> "ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for
>> your country."
>>
>> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:53 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
> wrote:
>>> Hi,
>>> I disagree on the issue of the bus, last I checked God was not
>>> sending out bills for solar unlike KPLC & the fuel companies would,
>>> so why are we obsessed with physical connections.
>>> Lets role out practical sustainable solutions that will not break
>>> down soon after implementation, the african needs to stop thinking
>>> seasonally we need to see the bigger picture.  Lets agree that the
>>> bus concept was a half brainer and move onto a better model.
>>> You mentioned the issue of India please search for an article called
>>> the "hole in the wall" experiment and then based on that we role out
>>> ICT everywhere. Let us begin where the service can be paid for which
>>> I believe is at the district headquarters to which the government has
> laid fibre.
>>> We
>>> use this as a hub and fern outwards.
>>> In addition Bwana PS your concept on empowering the local authorities
>>> to carry out the metro cables is brilliant so lets follow it through
>>> and use the LATIF fund to implement.
>>> We can then centralise the functions such as HR, finance and
>>> procurement and use the savings to pay for the terrestrial fibre
>>> cable.  90% of these activities do not need Internet access thus they
>>> should have been implement without waiting for the marine cables.
>>> The local authorities would then connect their schools and implement
>>> a centralised management system that would then sort out the issue of
>>> students being in school for 8 years without ID cards.
>>> This issue is not rocket science nor brain surgery, it just needs
>>> basic reasoning and practical application, the bus was a joke & BPO
>>> is a bigger joke so lets get out from the centre ring and get back to
> reality.
>>> I have a serious problem with detail which is not a fault as I see
>>> the bigger picture where others see dots and might explain why I have
>>> not done a phd on the mating habits of the anorphalise mosquito
>>> because that will be a pixel.  I know that when I spray doom on the
>>> mosquito it dies how is irrelevant.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>> Robert Yawe
>>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>>> Kenya
>>>
>>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: "bitange at jambo.co.ke" <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>>> To: robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk
>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Sent: Tue, 6 April, 2010 23:06:35
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>>
>>> Vitalis,
>>> Lack of electricity is one of the lame excuses we use to stop linking
>>> our rural areas. You can now provide Broadband anywhere in the country.
>>> Safaricom has done it to Digital Villages in Karachwonyo and Ugenya.
>>> Indeed
>>> in Karachwonyo their was neither electricity nor tarmaked roads.
>>>
>>> The bus idea was a self contained project that did not require the
>>> luxuries you mention here. If we really want to develop this country
>>> and expand opportunity we must stop sounding like foreigners in this
>>> country. We must learn to be creative and speak less. We must refuse
>>> donor money and start individual social responsibilty. We must have
>>> faith in our abilities.
>>> Saying
>>> we cannot manage a bus in a constituency is defeatist and eroding the
>>> confidence of ever managing our resources.
>>>
>>> Ndemo.
>>>
>>> Sent from my BlackBerryR
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Vitalis Olunga <volunga at yahoo.com>
>>> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 12:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
>>> To: <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus Thanks  a lot Bwana
>>> PS for your comprehensive response on this issuue regardless of my
>>> getting into this discussion too late. I am very sorry about this
>>> lateness.  Of cause  I did  not mean political or legal feasiblty, as
>>> this could only mean "a sacred  cow project. " What I had in mind
>>> tends toward economic and technical feasibilty. Of cause not
>>> commercial viability.  You have indeed responded comphensively in all
>>> areas, therefore I don't intend to pursue the matter any further.
>>> However, there are few points of interest which I would wish to share
>>> (but not into details).
>>>
>>> It may not necessarily require to carryout feasibility study to
>>> deploy computers in rural schools, but it may be necessary, at the
>>> very basic, to gather some information e.g. availability of power,
>>> and connectivity or broadband access (fixed and mobile network
>>> coverage), before distributing computers to theses schools.  This may
>>> sound simple, but there are a few of cases in the past where
>>> computers have been donated to some schools in rural areas before
>>> electricty is connected.  To carryout this kind of exercise may not
>>> require paying someone huge sums of fee.  This can be done using even
>>> internal resources (assuming they exist), with minimal help from a
>>> local consutant. Some of the data may be readily available and whta
>>> may be requred is only to convert it into useful information.
>>>
>>> Digital villages in each constituency was "a very bright idea".  This
>>> could be usefull in nhancing demand for ICT to rural commuinities and
>>> to extend the same to schools as well.  This is where public private
>>> parnership could play a fundamental role, with involvement of all the
>>> satakeholders.
>>> Alternaetively the ministry of education (with the rural communities)
>>> could identify at least two  distritric/ provicial schools (Boys' &
>>> Gilrls' OR
>>> Mixed) in each constituency where there is braodaband access
>>> (assuming electricity already exists), or the Ministry of Ifo. could
>>> work with the service providers to provide broadband aceess last mile
>>> distribution.  In this case the cost of overeheads required to run
>>> such a prpject will be minimal (no fuel to run the bus, no bus
>>> drivers, no maitenace costs of buses due to poor condition of rural
>>> access roads).  Also some schools may be located in "shadow zones"
>>> with no signals, and will not be linked by "ICT Bus".  The eviroments
>>> differ in every country, though "adaptation" can also work.
>>>
>>> With the use of digital villages or ICT school labs, then the
>>> excellent, bright and succesful initiatives/projects  such as Data
>>> Centres, NOFBI, Teams, etc.  can be of greater benefits to the rural
>>> schools through e-Learning.  To train the teacher first, on how to
>>> use ICT, before traing the child is importnat, to avoid or limit
>>> computer numbers gathering dust in some corners. Similar
>>> appraoch/pilot project can be replicated for e-Health to connect all
>>> district hosiptals to a Central Data Portal. In this case, training
>>> the doctor before nurse is essential. Is to importnat to note that
>>> involving too many committes in a prpject is a challenge. "Too many
>>> rats never dig a hole."  Having a Data Centre without (or limited)
>>> access/connectivity  may negligible impact or benefit. CDF management
>>> is already complex and challenging. This where one meets with numrous
>>> political projects at times.
>>> I intend to stop here, and not to pursue it any more. However, I can
>>> expand
>>> my thoughts in another forum.   Thanks for the good work and great ideas.
>>>
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>> Vitalis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: "bitange at jambo.co.ke" <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>>> To: Vitalis Olunga <volunga at yahoo.com>
>>> Cc: bitange at jambo.co.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Sent: Sun, April 4, 2010 7:08:38 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>>
>>> Dear Vitalis,
>>> My brother you are getting into this matter too late.  For a start,
>>> you are confusing issues when you ask for a feasibility study.
>>> Although I do not know which feasibility (legal, economic, technical
>>> etc) you wanted in place, it is unwise in my view to pay someone to
>>> do a feasibility study on whether you need to deploy computers in the
>>> rural areas.  Before we made the proposal to treasury, we developed a
>>> concept note and observed a similar bus that has been providing
>>> similar services to kids in Mathare and Kibera.  The concept is based
>>> on an Indian model that has been very successful in arousing interest
>>> in ICT (boosting the demand side) in rural India.  Basically, the
>>> objective was to create demand for ICT services among the rural
>>> folks, introduce ICTs on a pilot basis to schools, youth and
>>> villagers in all constituencies.  The project was to be supported by
>>> digital villages throughout the country.  Each bus was to have two
>>> qualified ICT instructors and managed by District Education Boards as
> well as CDF committees.
>>> This was a well thought idea and fits in with devolved resources idea
>>> that we have all been pushing as a basis of equitable distribution of
>>> resources.  The project was fought from day 1 as not feasible.  To
>>> date nobody has tabled a feasibility study that helped them arrive at
>>> that decision.  Ni kupiga mudomo tu.  Why do we make so much noise
>>> about devolved funds if several committees cannot manage one bus per
>>> constituency?  Several studies show that countries that bought
>>> computers and simply put them in class have not seen the benefit
>>> since not even the teachers use them.  Why?  Because they did not
>>> create the demand for ICTs in the first place.  In places where you
>>> have digital villages, you hear people talking about their e-mail, people
> wanting e-learning platform etc.
>>> We have been successful with digital villages because we avoided
>>> unnecessary subsidies and introduced them as enterprises.  Several
>>> countries deployed these digital villages through NGOs, Donors and
>>> direct Government subsidy.  They have failed.  The bus was to drive
>>> demand for e-services in rural areas.
>>> Where we are in terms of development, we need to take a bit of risk
>>> by moving to design and implementation and stop wasting resources on
>>> the so called feasibility studies.  Teams, NOFBI, GCCN, Data Centers,
>>> etc are some of the most successful projects that were done in record
>>> period by simply moving to design and implementation.  Of course
>>> design begets you technical feasibility.  Much of economic
>>> feasibility can be discerned through googling similar projects.  Note
>>> Piloting a concept that has already succeeded elsewhere and within
>>> does not require detailed feasibility since you know the outcomes.
>>> Further it is usually difficult to quantify social benefits as in the
>>> bus case in order to have an objective feasibility study.
>>>
>>> Ndemo.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Sorry to respond on this a little bit too late.  My question is
>>>> whether whether there was any feasibility study carried out before
>>>> allocation of funds to  this "ICT Bus Projects."  It would be
>>>> prudent to share such a report with satakeholders. The
>>>> sustainability of such a project could be questionable. If other
>>>> strategic alternatives (including building computer labs in schools)
>>>> were considered, then the reasons for making this choice (ICT Bus)
>>>> would be of interest to share, even if it is meant to be for a quick
>>>> fix solution.  E-education/learning is definitly a very important
>>>> area that needs to be given a priority and .  There are some
>>>> interestesting analyses
>>>>
>>>> Regrds
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Vitalis
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>> From: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>> To: volunga at yahoo.com
>>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>> Sent: Thu, March 25, 2010 5:39:31 PM
>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> I refuse to acknowledge the regional issues because I come from an
>>>> in an industry that has no ethnicity or regional divide.
>>>>
>>>> I plead with you stop selling yourself short by getting embroiled in
>>>> political side shows, if we set out our objective and kept to the
>>>> plan we can achieve what I have proposed and more.
>>>>
>>>> Even if I asked you to volunteer to go to Mandera and teach ICT you
>>>> definitely will not, it makes more sense to train the teacher
>>>> already on the ground.  We can roll out across the country
>>>> simultaneously as we are not using a single contractor to build the
>>>> labs or install the solar or the cabling.
>>>>
>>>> Just like with the CDF if the area representatives cannot identify
>>>> their priority areas then lets not try to force it down their throats.
>>>>
>>>> Before teaching a man to fish make sure he does eat fish.
>>>>
>>>> Technology knows no bounds only the human mind constrains itself
>>>>
>>>> Robert Yawe
>>>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>>>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>>>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>>>> Kenya
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>________________________________
>>>> From: "bitange at jambo.co.ke" <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>>>> To: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>>>> Cc: bitange at jambo.co.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>>><kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>> Sent: Wed, 24 March, 2010 19:15:50
>>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>>>
>>>> Robert,
>>>> Things are not as easy as you write here.  Today in Kenya you cannot
>>>> try to do anything without taking into account of regional
>>>> interests.  I hope you are watching the constitutional process and the
> regional emotions.
>>>> Imagine if we were to start with schools in the ASAL region
>>>> promising to cover the entire country in the next five years.
>>>> Consider that Ministry of Education does not have adequate number of
>>>> teachers as we speak yet you will need at least one computer teacher
>>>> in the 20,000 primary schools and 9,000 secondary schools.
>>>>
>>>> If we need to close the digital divide, we all must change.  We must
>>>> for example begin volunteering to teach both the students and the
>>>> unemployed youth computers.  By so doing, you will one day live to
>>>> say what you did for your country.  Like it is said "it is easier said
> than done".
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Ndemo.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> Hi,
>>>>>
>>>>> It seems that some sanity is coming into the education realm with
>>>>> the Hon.
>>>>> Minister Dr. Ongeri canceling the proposed ICT Bus project, I
>>>>> believe once bitten twice shy.
>>>>>
>>>>> The project was to cost Kes. 1.2  B with each bus costing Kes. 7
>>>>> Million which equates to 171 buses that is roughly 24 buses per
>>>>> province this was surely another scan in the making.  I remember
>>>>> the MP of Kisumu Hon.
>>>>> Shabbir raising the issue of the buses and getting dismissed as a
>>>>> self seeking technology Neanderthal, lets hope this is the
>>>>> beginning of sanity in the ICT arena, but if I was you I wouldn't
>>>>> hold my breath.
>>>>>
>>>>> I suspect that the concept of mobile computer labs was a thinking
>>>>> from the mobile library project but someone forgot that with a
>>>>> library the books are left behind.
>>>>>
>>>>> With Kes 7 million we could do much more than just a single bus
>>>>> with 20 computer that requires a driver, insurance, service,
>>>>> generators, and many other thinks.
>>>>>
>>>>> Here is my suggestion on how the 7 million could be better utilised
>>>>> to meet the objectives.
>>>>>
>>>>> - 20% to be used for physical facilities (stone & mortar) - Kes.
>>>>> 1.4 M - This can build 150 sq m of classroom space inclusive of
>>>>> electrical wiring & burger proofed windows. An average computer lab
>>>>> is 15 sq m which means we can build 10 labs and each can
>>>>> accommodate 20 screens/pcs.  We could build even more labs if the
>>>>> Ministry if Housing provided the interlocking soil block making
>>>>> machines
>>>>>
>>>>> - 30% to be used for provision of power to the lab - Kes. 2.1
>>>>> million we which we need to provide sufficient power.  The
>>>>> computers will need to be low power consumers therefore we use TFT
>>>>> screens and cpu sharing devices that allow 1 computer to be used
>>>>> simultaneously by 4 or more students.
>>>>> With this our power requirement for each lab would be below 1,000
>>>>> VA which can easily be supplied by a few solar panels and a battery
>>>>> bank.
>>>>>
>>>>> - 20% for the actual hardware - Kes. 1.4 M - DC powered computers,
>>>>> printers and GSM modem with a good proxy server to provide local
>>>>> caching.
>>>>> This will also include structured cabling which will be done by the
>>>>> graduats of the kazi kwa Vijani initiative where they will have
>>>>> been offered technical training.
>>>>>
>>>>> -  20% teacher training - Kes. 1.4 M, even if we have them
>>>>> certified in ICDL we shall be able to train 66 teachers which would
>>>>> provide enough computer teachers.
>>>>>
>>>>> - 10% well I leave you to decide what to do with that, note that
>>>>> there are no recurrent costs such as drivers, diesel, electricity
>>>>> costs (God does not charge for solar, yet).
>>>>>
>>>>> The 10 labs can be used by the schools during the day and could be
>>>>> made available to the community in the evenings and as digital
>>>>> villages over the weekends where content can be generated, yes
>>>>> local content (ask me for details).
>>>>>
>>>>> Now that I have spend the equivalent of 1 bus to create 10 centers
>>>>> why won't we actually do this, because I did not factor in the
>>>>> feasibility study costs, 30%, seminars and workshops 50%, sitting
>>>>> allowances 20% and well nothing else to include as the preliminary
>>>>> costs have already consumed the 7 million.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ongeri hurray but lets hope the money will not go to drinking water
>>>>> and writing materials for a bonding session.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regards
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>  Robert Yawe
>>>>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>>>>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>>>>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>>>>> Kenya
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
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