[kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus

Harry Delano harry at comtelsys.co.ke
Wed Apr 7 14:13:40 EAT 2010


 

Listers,

Let's keep the debate on course, without necessarily bringing each other
within "cross-hairs"

I suppose, all of us have a point. The issue is where can we get to a point
of "convergence",
as in the final analysis, we all would like to see a more prosperous country
through fast-tracked 
processes that do not take us round in circles.

So, let's keep it going..

Harry

-----Original Message-----
From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke at lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke at lists.kictanet.or.ke] On
Behalf Of Agosta Liko
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:40 PM
To: harry at comtelsys.co.ke
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus

my point is really simple.

we have broadband, security is better, roads are better.

what are you doing as a Kenyan ?

am saying start with the man in the mirror and then po

int fingers...

On 4/7/10, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Liko,
>
> Please make a trip to any government office location and count how 
> many vehicles are grounded, if they cannot sort out a toyota vits that 
> operated within Nairobi how do you expect them to service a bus that 
> travels around a district?
>
> In todays paper there is an issue of funds allocated to a 
> none-existent hospital in Kayole can your imagine how much easier it 
> will be to misdirect funds to a moving object.
>
> It is good that you got to experience the moving bus so do you want us 
> to stop schools from stocking their local libraries, the moving movies 
> died because TVs became cheaper and we bought VCRs.  A technology must 
> be looked at in the context of time.
>
> The moving bus can be equated to the computer lab at the Univeristy, 
> yet we can today provide every student with a desktop in their room or 
> a laptop to carry around at the same price.  If safaricom can 
> negotiate for a laptop at
> 24,000/- shillings imagine how much more muscle the government has, 
> but it wont because the decision makers still remember the travelling 
> library and refuse to change with the times.
>
> Just to go back to the 2007 elections when Orange house was raided by 
> thugs and Hon. Nyongo said that is was instigated by their opponents 
> to get access to their membership list, this was a clear indication 
> that he has not used a flash disk or send a file attachment because he 
> still remembers the airconditioned computer room when he was in
University.
>
> Regards
>
> Think global, act local
>  Robert Yawe
> KAY System Technologies Ltd
> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
> Kenya
>
>
> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Agosta Liko <agostal at gmail.com>
> To: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> Sent: Wed, 7 April, 2010 13:12:08
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>
> Robert
>
> I really dont see an issue with internet by bus.. its a step in the 
> right direction ... can be made better but one has to start from 
> somewhere. Internet by bus would work well cos the bus would move 
> around schools bringing workstations to many places. If a constituency 
> has 10 workstations, one can make the case that making them mobile 
> would serve more people as opposed to putting them in one location
>
> When I was growing up Kenya National Library used to bring books, KCB 
> used to have a landrover to bring banking to the people and Cinema Leo 
> used to bring movies. With time, that model has died ... but it served 
> a purpose.....
>
> see, there is a big challenge in kenya
>
> if you give schools desktops ... some people would say laptops are a 
> better fit
>
> if you give schools laptops ... some people would say desktops are 
> better fit and hard to steal
>
>
> You say that BPO is a joke ... I am sure that over 3000 kenyans work 
> in that sector now ... and its all semantics if you look at things.
> See, Your company manages services {at Orange :) } for clients. So you 
> are in the local BPO ....
>
> I respond because I borrowed books from that Kenya National Library 
> bus, Watched Films at the market and I work in the local BPO sector.
>
> Also ... please take time and go through this speech by JFK ...
> http://www.famousquotes.me.uk/speeches/John_F_Kennedy/5.htm
>
> Incase you are very busy .. Its always summed up as follows
>
> "ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for 
> your country."
>
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:53 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I disagree on the issue of the bus, last I checked God was not 
>> sending out bills for solar unlike KPLC & the fuel companies would, 
>> so why are we obsessed with physical connections.
>> Lets role out practical sustainable solutions that will not break 
>> down soon after implementation, the african needs to stop thinking 
>> seasonally we need to see the bigger picture.  Lets agree that the 
>> bus concept was a half brainer and move onto a better model.
>> You mentioned the issue of India please search for an article called 
>> the "hole in the wall" experiment and then based on that we role out 
>> ICT everywhere. Let us begin where the service can be paid for which 
>> I believe is at the district headquarters to which the government has
laid fibre.
>> We
>> use this as a hub and fern outwards.
>> In addition Bwana PS your concept on empowering the local authorities 
>> to carry out the metro cables is brilliant so lets follow it through 
>> and use the LATIF fund to implement.
>> We can then centralise the functions such as HR, finance and 
>> procurement and use the savings to pay for the terrestrial fibre 
>> cable.  90% of these activities do not need Internet access thus they 
>> should have been implement without waiting for the marine cables.
>> The local authorities would then connect their schools and implement 
>> a centralised management system that would then sort out the issue of 
>> students being in school for 8 years without ID cards.
>> This issue is not rocket science nor brain surgery, it just needs 
>> basic reasoning and practical application, the bus was a joke & BPO 
>> is a bigger joke so lets get out from the centre ring and get back to
reality.
>> I have a serious problem with detail which is not a fault as I see 
>> the bigger picture where others see dots and might explain why I have 
>> not done a phd on the mating habits of the anorphalise mosquito 
>> because that will be a pixel.  I know that when I spray doom on the 
>> mosquito it dies how is irrelevant.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Robert Yawe
>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>> Kenya
>>
>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "bitange at jambo.co.ke" <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>> To: robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk
>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> Sent: Tue, 6 April, 2010 23:06:35
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>
>> Vitalis,
>> Lack of electricity is one of the lame excuses we use to stop linking 
>> our rural areas. You can now provide Broadband anywhere in the country.
>> Safaricom has done it to Digital Villages in Karachwonyo and Ugenya.
>> Indeed
>> in Karachwonyo their was neither electricity nor tarmaked roads.
>>
>> The bus idea was a self contained project that did not require the 
>> luxuries you mention here. If we really want to develop this country 
>> and expand opportunity we must stop sounding like foreigners in this 
>> country. We must learn to be creative and speak less. We must refuse 
>> donor money and start individual social responsibilty. We must have 
>> faith in our abilities.
>> Saying
>> we cannot manage a bus in a constituency is defeatist and eroding the 
>> confidence of ever managing our resources.
>>
>> Ndemo.
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerryR
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Vitalis Olunga <volunga at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 12:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
>> To: <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus Thanks  a lot Bwana 
>> PS for your comprehensive response on this issuue regardless of my 
>> getting into this discussion too late. I am very sorry about this 
>> lateness.  Of cause  I did  not mean political or legal feasiblty, as 
>> this could only mean "a sacred  cow project. " What I had in mind 
>> tends toward economic and technical feasibilty. Of cause not 
>> commercial viability.  You have indeed responded comphensively in all 
>> areas, therefore I don't intend to pursue the matter any further.  
>> However, there are few points of interest which I would wish to share 
>> (but not into details).
>>
>> It may not necessarily require to carryout feasibility study to 
>> deploy computers in rural schools, but it may be necessary, at the 
>> very basic, to gather some information e.g. availability of power, 
>> and connectivity or broadband access (fixed and mobile network 
>> coverage), before distributing computers to theses schools.  This may 
>> sound simple, but there are a few of cases in the past where 
>> computers have been donated to some schools in rural areas before 
>> electricty is connected.  To carryout this kind of exercise may not 
>> require paying someone huge sums of fee.  This can be done using even 
>> internal resources (assuming they exist), with minimal help from a 
>> local consutant. Some of the data may be readily available and whta 
>> may be requred is only to convert it into useful information.
>>
>> Digital villages in each constituency was "a very bright idea".  This 
>> could be usefull in nhancing demand for ICT to rural commuinities and 
>> to extend the same to schools as well.  This is where public private 
>> parnership could play a fundamental role, with involvement of all the 
>> satakeholders.
>> Alternaetively the ministry of education (with the rural communities) 
>> could identify at least two  distritric/ provicial schools (Boys' & 
>> Gilrls' OR
>> Mixed) in each constituency where there is braodaband access 
>> (assuming electricity already exists), or the Ministry of Ifo. could 
>> work with the service providers to provide broadband aceess last mile 
>> distribution.  In this case the cost of overeheads required to run 
>> such a prpject will be minimal (no fuel to run the bus, no bus 
>> drivers, no maitenace costs of buses due to poor condition of rural 
>> access roads).  Also some schools may be located in "shadow zones" 
>> with no signals, and will not be linked by "ICT Bus".  The eviroments 
>> differ in every country, though "adaptation" can also work.
>>
>> With the use of digital villages or ICT school labs, then the 
>> excellent, bright and succesful initiatives/projects  such as Data 
>> Centres, NOFBI, Teams, etc.  can be of greater benefits to the rural 
>> schools through e-Learning.  To train the teacher first, on how to 
>> use ICT, before traing the child is importnat, to avoid or limit 
>> computer numbers gathering dust in some corners. Similar 
>> appraoch/pilot project can be replicated for e-Health to connect all 
>> district hosiptals to a Central Data Portal. In this case, training 
>> the doctor before nurse is essential. Is to importnat to note that 
>> involving too many committes in a prpject is a challenge. "Too many 
>> rats never dig a hole."  Having a Data Centre without (or limited) 
>> access/connectivity  may negligible impact or benefit. CDF management 
>> is already complex and challenging. This where one meets with numrous 
>> political projects at times.
>> I intend to stop here, and not to pursue it any more. However, I can 
>> expand
>> my thoughts in another forum.   Thanks for the good work and great ideas.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Vitalis
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "bitange at jambo.co.ke" <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>> To: Vitalis Olunga <volunga at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: bitange at jambo.co.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions 
>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> Sent: Sun, April 4, 2010 7:08:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>
>> Dear Vitalis,
>> My brother you are getting into this matter too late.  For a start, 
>> you are confusing issues when you ask for a feasibility study.  
>> Although I do not know which feasibility (legal, economic, technical 
>> etc) you wanted in place, it is unwise in my view to pay someone to 
>> do a feasibility study on whether you need to deploy computers in the 
>> rural areas.  Before we made the proposal to treasury, we developed a 
>> concept note and observed a similar bus that has been providing 
>> similar services to kids in Mathare and Kibera.  The concept is based 
>> on an Indian model that has been very successful in arousing interest 
>> in ICT (boosting the demand side) in rural India.  Basically, the 
>> objective was to create demand for ICT services among the rural 
>> folks, introduce ICTs on a pilot basis to schools, youth and 
>> villagers in all constituencies.  The project was to be supported by 
>> digital villages throughout the country.  Each bus was to have two 
>> qualified ICT instructors and managed by District Education Boards as
well as CDF committees.
>> This was a well thought idea and fits in with devolved resources idea 
>> that we have all been pushing as a basis of equitable distribution of 
>> resources.  The project was fought from day 1 as not feasible.  To 
>> date nobody has tabled a feasibility study that helped them arrive at 
>> that decision.  Ni kupiga mudomo tu.  Why do we make so much noise 
>> about devolved funds if several committees cannot manage one bus per 
>> constituency?  Several studies show that countries that bought 
>> computers and simply put them in class have not seen the benefit 
>> since not even the teachers use them.  Why?  Because they did not 
>> create the demand for ICTs in the first place.  In places where you 
>> have digital villages, you hear people talking about their e-mail, people
wanting e-learning platform etc.
>> We have been successful with digital villages because we avoided 
>> unnecessary subsidies and introduced them as enterprises.  Several 
>> countries deployed these digital villages through NGOs, Donors and 
>> direct Government subsidy.  They have failed.  The bus was to drive 
>> demand for e-services in rural areas.
>> Where we are in terms of development, we need to take a bit of risk 
>> by moving to design and implementation and stop wasting resources on 
>> the so called feasibility studies.  Teams, NOFBI, GCCN, Data Centers, 
>> etc are some of the most successful projects that were done in record 
>> period by simply moving to design and implementation.  Of course 
>> design begets you technical feasibility.  Much of economic 
>> feasibility can be discerned through googling similar projects.  Note 
>> Piloting a concept that has already succeeded elsewhere and within 
>> does not require detailed feasibility since you know the outcomes.  
>> Further it is usually difficult to quantify social benefits as in the 
>> bus case in order to have an objective feasibility study.
>>
>> Ndemo.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Sorry to respond on this a little bit too late.  My question is 
>>> whether whether there was any feasibility study carried out before 
>>> allocation of funds to  this "ICT Bus Projects."  It would be 
>>> prudent to share such a report with satakeholders. The 
>>> sustainability of such a project could be questionable. If other 
>>> strategic alternatives (including building computer labs in schools) 
>>> were considered, then the reasons for making this choice (ICT Bus) 
>>> would be of interest to share, even if it is meant to be for a quick 
>>> fix solution.  E-education/learning is definitly a very important 
>>> area that needs to be given a priority and .  There are some 
>>> interestesting analyses
>>>
>>> Regrds
>>>
>>>
>>> Vitalis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>>> To: volunga at yahoo.com
>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Sent: Thu, March 25, 2010 5:39:31 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I refuse to acknowledge the regional issues because I come from an 
>>> in an industry that has no ethnicity or regional divide.
>>>
>>> I plead with you stop selling yourself short by getting embroiled in 
>>> political side shows, if we set out our objective and kept to the 
>>> plan we can achieve what I have proposed and more.
>>>
>>> Even if I asked you to volunteer to go to Mandera and teach ICT you 
>>> definitely will not, it makes more sense to train the teacher 
>>> already on the ground.  We can roll out across the country 
>>> simultaneously as we are not using a single contractor to build the 
>>> labs or install the solar or the cabling.
>>>
>>> Just like with the CDF if the area representatives cannot identify 
>>> their priority areas then lets not try to force it down their throats.
>>>
>>> Before teaching a man to fish make sure he does eat fish.
>>>
>>> Technology knows no bounds only the human mind constrains itself
>>>
>>> Robert Yawe
>>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>>> Kenya
>>>
>>>
>>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: "bitange at jambo.co.ke" <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>>> To: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>>> Cc: bitange at jambo.co.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions  
>>><kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Sent: Wed, 24 March, 2010 19:15:50
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>>
>>> Robert,
>>> Things are not as easy as you write here.  Today in Kenya you cannot 
>>> try to do anything without taking into account of regional 
>>> interests.  I hope you are watching the constitutional process and the
regional emotions.
>>> Imagine if we were to start with schools in the ASAL region 
>>> promising to cover the entire country in the next five years.  
>>> Consider that Ministry of Education does not have adequate number of 
>>> teachers as we speak yet you will need at least one computer teacher 
>>> in the 20,000 primary schools and 9,000 secondary schools.
>>>
>>> If we need to close the digital divide, we all must change.  We must 
>>> for example begin volunteering to teach both the students and the 
>>> unemployed youth computers.  By so doing, you will one day live to 
>>> say what you did for your country.  Like it is said "it is easier said
than done".
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>> Ndemo.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> It seems that some sanity is coming into the education realm with 
>>>> the Hon.
>>>> Minister Dr. Ongeri canceling the proposed ICT Bus project, I 
>>>> believe once bitten twice shy.
>>>>
>>>> The project was to cost Kes. 1.2  B with each bus costing Kes. 7 
>>>> Million which equates to 171 buses that is roughly 24 buses per 
>>>> province this was surely another scan in the making.  I remember 
>>>> the MP of Kisumu Hon.
>>>> Shabbir raising the issue of the buses and getting dismissed as a 
>>>> self seeking technology Neanderthal, lets hope this is the 
>>>> beginning of sanity in the ICT arena, but if I was you I wouldn't 
>>>> hold my breath.
>>>>
>>>> I suspect that the concept of mobile computer labs was a thinking 
>>>> from the mobile library project but someone forgot that with a 
>>>> library the books are left behind.
>>>>
>>>> With Kes 7 million we could do much more than just a single bus 
>>>> with 20 computer that requires a driver, insurance, service, 
>>>> generators, and many other thinks.
>>>>
>>>> Here is my suggestion on how the 7 million could be better utilised 
>>>> to meet the objectives.
>>>>
>>>> - 20% to be used for physical facilities (stone & mortar) - Kes. 
>>>> 1.4 M - This can build 150 sq m of classroom space inclusive of 
>>>> electrical wiring & burger proofed windows. An average computer lab 
>>>> is 15 sq m which means we can build 10 labs and each can 
>>>> accommodate 20 screens/pcs.  We could build even more labs if the 
>>>> Ministry if Housing provided the interlocking soil block making 
>>>> machines
>>>>
>>>> - 30% to be used for provision of power to the lab - Kes. 2.1 
>>>> million we which we need to provide sufficient power.  The 
>>>> computers will need to be low power consumers therefore we use TFT 
>>>> screens and cpu sharing devices that allow 1 computer to be used 
>>>> simultaneously by 4 or more students.
>>>> With this our power requirement for each lab would be below 1,000 
>>>> VA which can easily be supplied by a few solar panels and a battery 
>>>> bank.
>>>>
>>>> - 20% for the actual hardware - Kes. 1.4 M - DC powered computers, 
>>>> printers and GSM modem with a good proxy server to provide local 
>>>> caching.
>>>> This will also include structured cabling which will be done by the 
>>>> graduats of the kazi kwa Vijani initiative where they will have 
>>>> been offered technical training.
>>>>
>>>> -  20% teacher training - Kes. 1.4 M, even if we have them 
>>>> certified in ICDL we shall be able to train 66 teachers which would 
>>>> provide enough computer teachers.
>>>>
>>>> - 10% well I leave you to decide what to do with that, note that 
>>>> there are no recurrent costs such as drivers, diesel, electricity 
>>>> costs (God does not charge for solar, yet).
>>>>
>>>> The 10 labs can be used by the schools during the day and could be 
>>>> made available to the community in the evenings and as digital 
>>>> villages over the weekends where content can be generated, yes 
>>>> local content (ask me for details).
>>>>
>>>> Now that I have spend the equivalent of 1 bus to create 10 centers 
>>>> why won't we actually do this, because I did not factor in the 
>>>> feasibility study costs, 30%, seminars and workshops 50%, sitting 
>>>> allowances 20% and well nothing else to include as the preliminary 
>>>> costs have already consumed the 7 million.
>>>>
>>>> Ongeri hurray but lets hope the money will not go to drinking water 
>>>> and writing materials for a bonding session.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>  Robert Yawe
>>>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>>>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>>>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>>>> Kenya
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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