[kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
Harry Delano
harry at comtelsys.co.ke
Wed Apr 7 14:13:40 EAT 2010
Listers,
Let's keep the debate on course, without necessarily bringing each other
within "cross-hairs"
I suppose, all of us have a point. The issue is where can we get to a point
of "convergence",
as in the final analysis, we all would like to see a more prosperous country
through fast-tracked
processes that do not take us round in circles.
So, let's keep it going..
Harry
-----Original Message-----
From: kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke at lists.kictanet.or.ke
[mailto:kictanet-bounces+harry=comtelsys.co.ke at lists.kictanet.or.ke] On
Behalf Of Agosta Liko
Sent: Wednesday, April 07, 2010 1:40 PM
To: harry at comtelsys.co.ke
Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
my point is really simple.
we have broadband, security is better, roads are better.
what are you doing as a Kenyan ?
am saying start with the man in the mirror and then po
int fingers...
On 4/7/10, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
> Hi Liko,
>
> Please make a trip to any government office location and count how
> many vehicles are grounded, if they cannot sort out a toyota vits that
> operated within Nairobi how do you expect them to service a bus that
> travels around a district?
>
> In todays paper there is an issue of funds allocated to a
> none-existent hospital in Kayole can your imagine how much easier it
> will be to misdirect funds to a moving object.
>
> It is good that you got to experience the moving bus so do you want us
> to stop schools from stocking their local libraries, the moving movies
> died because TVs became cheaper and we bought VCRs. A technology must
> be looked at in the context of time.
>
> The moving bus can be equated to the computer lab at the Univeristy,
> yet we can today provide every student with a desktop in their room or
> a laptop to carry around at the same price. If safaricom can
> negotiate for a laptop at
> 24,000/- shillings imagine how much more muscle the government has,
> but it wont because the decision makers still remember the travelling
> library and refuse to change with the times.
>
> Just to go back to the 2007 elections when Orange house was raided by
> thugs and Hon. Nyongo said that is was instigated by their opponents
> to get access to their membership list, this was a clear indication
> that he has not used a flash disk or send a file attachment because he
> still remembers the airconditioned computer room when he was in
University.
>
> Regards
>
> Think global, act local
> Robert Yawe
> KAY System Technologies Ltd
> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
> Kenya
>
>
> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Agosta Liko <agostal at gmail.com>
> To: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> Sent: Wed, 7 April, 2010 13:12:08
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>
> Robert
>
> I really dont see an issue with internet by bus.. its a step in the
> right direction ... can be made better but one has to start from
> somewhere. Internet by bus would work well cos the bus would move
> around schools bringing workstations to many places. If a constituency
> has 10 workstations, one can make the case that making them mobile
> would serve more people as opposed to putting them in one location
>
> When I was growing up Kenya National Library used to bring books, KCB
> used to have a landrover to bring banking to the people and Cinema Leo
> used to bring movies. With time, that model has died ... but it served
> a purpose.....
>
> see, there is a big challenge in kenya
>
> if you give schools desktops ... some people would say laptops are a
> better fit
>
> if you give schools laptops ... some people would say desktops are
> better fit and hard to steal
>
>
> You say that BPO is a joke ... I am sure that over 3000 kenyans work
> in that sector now ... and its all semantics if you look at things.
> See, Your company manages services {at Orange :) } for clients. So you
> are in the local BPO ....
>
> I respond because I borrowed books from that Kenya National Library
> bus, Watched Films at the market and I work in the local BPO sector.
>
> Also ... please take time and go through this speech by JFK ...
> http://www.famousquotes.me.uk/speeches/John_F_Kennedy/5.htm
>
> Incase you are very busy .. Its always summed up as follows
>
> "ask not what your country can do for you - ask what you can do for
> your country."
>
> On Wed, Apr 7, 2010 at 12:53 PM, robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
wrote:
>> Hi,
>> I disagree on the issue of the bus, last I checked God was not
>> sending out bills for solar unlike KPLC & the fuel companies would,
>> so why are we obsessed with physical connections.
>> Lets role out practical sustainable solutions that will not break
>> down soon after implementation, the african needs to stop thinking
>> seasonally we need to see the bigger picture. Lets agree that the
>> bus concept was a half brainer and move onto a better model.
>> You mentioned the issue of India please search for an article called
>> the "hole in the wall" experiment and then based on that we role out
>> ICT everywhere. Let us begin where the service can be paid for which
>> I believe is at the district headquarters to which the government has
laid fibre.
>> We
>> use this as a hub and fern outwards.
>> In addition Bwana PS your concept on empowering the local authorities
>> to carry out the metro cables is brilliant so lets follow it through
>> and use the LATIF fund to implement.
>> We can then centralise the functions such as HR, finance and
>> procurement and use the savings to pay for the terrestrial fibre
>> cable. 90% of these activities do not need Internet access thus they
>> should have been implement without waiting for the marine cables.
>> The local authorities would then connect their schools and implement
>> a centralised management system that would then sort out the issue of
>> students being in school for 8 years without ID cards.
>> This issue is not rocket science nor brain surgery, it just needs
>> basic reasoning and practical application, the bus was a joke & BPO
>> is a bigger joke so lets get out from the centre ring and get back to
reality.
>> I have a serious problem with detail which is not a fault as I see
>> the bigger picture where others see dots and might explain why I have
>> not done a phd on the mating habits of the anorphalise mosquito
>> because that will be a pixel. I know that when I spray doom on the
>> mosquito it dies how is irrelevant.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>> Robert Yawe
>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>> Kenya
>>
>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "bitange at jambo.co.ke" <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>> To: robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk
>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> Sent: Tue, 6 April, 2010 23:06:35
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>
>> Vitalis,
>> Lack of electricity is one of the lame excuses we use to stop linking
>> our rural areas. You can now provide Broadband anywhere in the country.
>> Safaricom has done it to Digital Villages in Karachwonyo and Ugenya.
>> Indeed
>> in Karachwonyo their was neither electricity nor tarmaked roads.
>>
>> The bus idea was a self contained project that did not require the
>> luxuries you mention here. If we really want to develop this country
>> and expand opportunity we must stop sounding like foreigners in this
>> country. We must learn to be creative and speak less. We must refuse
>> donor money and start individual social responsibilty. We must have
>> faith in our abilities.
>> Saying
>> we cannot manage a bus in a constituency is defeatist and eroding the
>> confidence of ever managing our resources.
>>
>> Ndemo.
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerryR
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Vitalis Olunga <volunga at yahoo.com>
>> Date: Tue, 6 Apr 2010 12:29:13 -0700 (PDT)
>> To: <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus Thanks a lot Bwana
>> PS for your comprehensive response on this issuue regardless of my
>> getting into this discussion too late. I am very sorry about this
>> lateness. Of cause I did not mean political or legal feasiblty, as
>> this could only mean "a sacred cow project. " What I had in mind
>> tends toward economic and technical feasibilty. Of cause not
>> commercial viability. You have indeed responded comphensively in all
>> areas, therefore I don't intend to pursue the matter any further.
>> However, there are few points of interest which I would wish to share
>> (but not into details).
>>
>> It may not necessarily require to carryout feasibility study to
>> deploy computers in rural schools, but it may be necessary, at the
>> very basic, to gather some information e.g. availability of power,
>> and connectivity or broadband access (fixed and mobile network
>> coverage), before distributing computers to theses schools. This may
>> sound simple, but there are a few of cases in the past where
>> computers have been donated to some schools in rural areas before
>> electricty is connected. To carryout this kind of exercise may not
>> require paying someone huge sums of fee. This can be done using even
>> internal resources (assuming they exist), with minimal help from a
>> local consutant. Some of the data may be readily available and whta
>> may be requred is only to convert it into useful information.
>>
>> Digital villages in each constituency was "a very bright idea". This
>> could be usefull in nhancing demand for ICT to rural commuinities and
>> to extend the same to schools as well. This is where public private
>> parnership could play a fundamental role, with involvement of all the
>> satakeholders.
>> Alternaetively the ministry of education (with the rural communities)
>> could identify at least two distritric/ provicial schools (Boys' &
>> Gilrls' OR
>> Mixed) in each constituency where there is braodaband access
>> (assuming electricity already exists), or the Ministry of Ifo. could
>> work with the service providers to provide broadband aceess last mile
>> distribution. In this case the cost of overeheads required to run
>> such a prpject will be minimal (no fuel to run the bus, no bus
>> drivers, no maitenace costs of buses due to poor condition of rural
>> access roads). Also some schools may be located in "shadow zones"
>> with no signals, and will not be linked by "ICT Bus". The eviroments
>> differ in every country, though "adaptation" can also work.
>>
>> With the use of digital villages or ICT school labs, then the
>> excellent, bright and succesful initiatives/projects such as Data
>> Centres, NOFBI, Teams, etc. can be of greater benefits to the rural
>> schools through e-Learning. To train the teacher first, on how to
>> use ICT, before traing the child is importnat, to avoid or limit
>> computer numbers gathering dust in some corners. Similar
>> appraoch/pilot project can be replicated for e-Health to connect all
>> district hosiptals to a Central Data Portal. In this case, training
>> the doctor before nurse is essential. Is to importnat to note that
>> involving too many committes in a prpject is a challenge. "Too many
>> rats never dig a hole." Having a Data Centre without (or limited)
>> access/connectivity may negligible impact or benefit. CDF management
>> is already complex and challenging. This where one meets with numrous
>> political projects at times.
>> I intend to stop here, and not to pursue it any more. However, I can
>> expand
>> my thoughts in another forum. Thanks for the good work and great ideas.
>>
>>
>> Regards
>>
>>
>> Vitalis
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: "bitange at jambo.co.ke" <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>> To: Vitalis Olunga <volunga at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: bitange at jambo.co.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>> <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> Sent: Sun, April 4, 2010 7:08:38 PM
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>
>> Dear Vitalis,
>> My brother you are getting into this matter too late. For a start,
>> you are confusing issues when you ask for a feasibility study.
>> Although I do not know which feasibility (legal, economic, technical
>> etc) you wanted in place, it is unwise in my view to pay someone to
>> do a feasibility study on whether you need to deploy computers in the
>> rural areas. Before we made the proposal to treasury, we developed a
>> concept note and observed a similar bus that has been providing
>> similar services to kids in Mathare and Kibera. The concept is based
>> on an Indian model that has been very successful in arousing interest
>> in ICT (boosting the demand side) in rural India. Basically, the
>> objective was to create demand for ICT services among the rural
>> folks, introduce ICTs on a pilot basis to schools, youth and
>> villagers in all constituencies. The project was to be supported by
>> digital villages throughout the country. Each bus was to have two
>> qualified ICT instructors and managed by District Education Boards as
well as CDF committees.
>> This was a well thought idea and fits in with devolved resources idea
>> that we have all been pushing as a basis of equitable distribution of
>> resources. The project was fought from day 1 as not feasible. To
>> date nobody has tabled a feasibility study that helped them arrive at
>> that decision. Ni kupiga mudomo tu. Why do we make so much noise
>> about devolved funds if several committees cannot manage one bus per
>> constituency? Several studies show that countries that bought
>> computers and simply put them in class have not seen the benefit
>> since not even the teachers use them. Why? Because they did not
>> create the demand for ICTs in the first place. In places where you
>> have digital villages, you hear people talking about their e-mail, people
wanting e-learning platform etc.
>> We have been successful with digital villages because we avoided
>> unnecessary subsidies and introduced them as enterprises. Several
>> countries deployed these digital villages through NGOs, Donors and
>> direct Government subsidy. They have failed. The bus was to drive
>> demand for e-services in rural areas.
>> Where we are in terms of development, we need to take a bit of risk
>> by moving to design and implementation and stop wasting resources on
>> the so called feasibility studies. Teams, NOFBI, GCCN, Data Centers,
>> etc are some of the most successful projects that were done in record
>> period by simply moving to design and implementation. Of course
>> design begets you technical feasibility. Much of economic
>> feasibility can be discerned through googling similar projects. Note
>> Piloting a concept that has already succeeded elsewhere and within
>> does not require detailed feasibility since you know the outcomes.
>> Further it is usually difficult to quantify social benefits as in the
>> bus case in order to have an objective feasibility study.
>>
>> Ndemo.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>> Sorry to respond on this a little bit too late. My question is
>>> whether whether there was any feasibility study carried out before
>>> allocation of funds to this "ICT Bus Projects." It would be
>>> prudent to share such a report with satakeholders. The
>>> sustainability of such a project could be questionable. If other
>>> strategic alternatives (including building computer labs in schools)
>>> were considered, then the reasons for making this choice (ICT Bus)
>>> would be of interest to share, even if it is meant to be for a quick
>>> fix solution. E-education/learning is definitly a very important
>>> area that needs to be given a priority and . There are some
>>> interestesting analyses
>>>
>>> Regrds
>>>
>>>
>>> Vitalis
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>>> To: volunga at yahoo.com
>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Sent: Thu, March 25, 2010 5:39:31 PM
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> I refuse to acknowledge the regional issues because I come from an
>>> in an industry that has no ethnicity or regional divide.
>>>
>>> I plead with you stop selling yourself short by getting embroiled in
>>> political side shows, if we set out our objective and kept to the
>>> plan we can achieve what I have proposed and more.
>>>
>>> Even if I asked you to volunteer to go to Mandera and teach ICT you
>>> definitely will not, it makes more sense to train the teacher
>>> already on the ground. We can roll out across the country
>>> simultaneously as we are not using a single contractor to build the
>>> labs or install the solar or the cabling.
>>>
>>> Just like with the CDF if the area representatives cannot identify
>>> their priority areas then lets not try to force it down their throats.
>>>
>>> Before teaching a man to fish make sure he does eat fish.
>>>
>>> Technology knows no bounds only the human mind constrains itself
>>>
>>> Robert Yawe
>>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>>> Kenya
>>>
>>>
>>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>________________________________
>>> From: "bitange at jambo.co.ke" <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>>> To: robert yawe <robertyawe at yahoo.co.uk>
>>> Cc: bitange at jambo.co.ke; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions
>>><kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Sent: Wed, 24 March, 2010 19:15:50
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Ongeri Hurray on ICT Bus
>>>
>>> Robert,
>>> Things are not as easy as you write here. Today in Kenya you cannot
>>> try to do anything without taking into account of regional
>>> interests. I hope you are watching the constitutional process and the
regional emotions.
>>> Imagine if we were to start with schools in the ASAL region
>>> promising to cover the entire country in the next five years.
>>> Consider that Ministry of Education does not have adequate number of
>>> teachers as we speak yet you will need at least one computer teacher
>>> in the 20,000 primary schools and 9,000 secondary schools.
>>>
>>> If we need to close the digital divide, we all must change. We must
>>> for example begin volunteering to teach both the students and the
>>> unemployed youth computers. By so doing, you will one day live to
>>> say what you did for your country. Like it is said "it is easier said
than done".
>>>
>>> Regards
>>>
>>>
>>> Ndemo.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> It seems that some sanity is coming into the education realm with
>>>> the Hon.
>>>> Minister Dr. Ongeri canceling the proposed ICT Bus project, I
>>>> believe once bitten twice shy.
>>>>
>>>> The project was to cost Kes. 1.2 B with each bus costing Kes. 7
>>>> Million which equates to 171 buses that is roughly 24 buses per
>>>> province this was surely another scan in the making. I remember
>>>> the MP of Kisumu Hon.
>>>> Shabbir raising the issue of the buses and getting dismissed as a
>>>> self seeking technology Neanderthal, lets hope this is the
>>>> beginning of sanity in the ICT arena, but if I was you I wouldn't
>>>> hold my breath.
>>>>
>>>> I suspect that the concept of mobile computer labs was a thinking
>>>> from the mobile library project but someone forgot that with a
>>>> library the books are left behind.
>>>>
>>>> With Kes 7 million we could do much more than just a single bus
>>>> with 20 computer that requires a driver, insurance, service,
>>>> generators, and many other thinks.
>>>>
>>>> Here is my suggestion on how the 7 million could be better utilised
>>>> to meet the objectives.
>>>>
>>>> - 20% to be used for physical facilities (stone & mortar) - Kes.
>>>> 1.4 M - This can build 150 sq m of classroom space inclusive of
>>>> electrical wiring & burger proofed windows. An average computer lab
>>>> is 15 sq m which means we can build 10 labs and each can
>>>> accommodate 20 screens/pcs. We could build even more labs if the
>>>> Ministry if Housing provided the interlocking soil block making
>>>> machines
>>>>
>>>> - 30% to be used for provision of power to the lab - Kes. 2.1
>>>> million we which we need to provide sufficient power. The
>>>> computers will need to be low power consumers therefore we use TFT
>>>> screens and cpu sharing devices that allow 1 computer to be used
>>>> simultaneously by 4 or more students.
>>>> With this our power requirement for each lab would be below 1,000
>>>> VA which can easily be supplied by a few solar panels and a battery
>>>> bank.
>>>>
>>>> - 20% for the actual hardware - Kes. 1.4 M - DC powered computers,
>>>> printers and GSM modem with a good proxy server to provide local
>>>> caching.
>>>> This will also include structured cabling which will be done by the
>>>> graduats of the kazi kwa Vijani initiative where they will have
>>>> been offered technical training.
>>>>
>>>> - 20% teacher training - Kes. 1.4 M, even if we have them
>>>> certified in ICDL we shall be able to train 66 teachers which would
>>>> provide enough computer teachers.
>>>>
>>>> - 10% well I leave you to decide what to do with that, note that
>>>> there are no recurrent costs such as drivers, diesel, electricity
>>>> costs (God does not charge for solar, yet).
>>>>
>>>> The 10 labs can be used by the schools during the day and could be
>>>> made available to the community in the evenings and as digital
>>>> villages over the weekends where content can be generated, yes
>>>> local content (ask me for details).
>>>>
>>>> Now that I have spend the equivalent of 1 bus to create 10 centers
>>>> why won't we actually do this, because I did not factor in the
>>>> feasibility study costs, 30%, seminars and workshops 50%, sitting
>>>> allowances 20% and well nothing else to include as the preliminary
>>>> costs have already consumed the 7 million.
>>>>
>>>> Ongeri hurray but lets hope the money will not go to drinking water
>>>> and writing materials for a bonding session.
>>>>
>>>> Regards
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Robert Yawe
>>>> KAY System Technologies Ltd
>>>> Phoenix House, 6th Floor
>>>> P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200
>>>> Kenya
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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