[kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law

Tue Jan 6 09:39:07 EAT 2009

Hi,

I agree with Alex's suggestion. We need a sober discussion devoid of the emotions and propaganda (power?) war between govt and media to understand the whole Act and not just the contentious broadcast section.

Regards,

Jotham K. Mwale

--- On Mon, 1/5/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists at gmail.com> wrote:

From: Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists at gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law
To: jokilimo at yahoo.com
Cc: kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
Date: Monday, January 5, 2009, 7:14 PM

Barrak,

On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Barrack Otieno
<otieno.barrack at gmail.com> wrote:
> You have a point David, this convergence business is a bit confusing
> to the waheshimiwa as well as a good number of Kenyans, i bet eighty
> percent might no understand what is going on, Alex you seem to be
> having some answers though your answers are too complicated :)
> Let the debate continue

ok a suggestion,,, to make things easier, I propose you + Makali +
Walu + Wainaina as co-moderators on a (week-long?) online discussion
on the Act;) This way we shall all chip in our opinion on every
section.

Why dya say buddy? other listers views?

regards,

Alex

> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:14 PM,  <dmakali at yahoo.com> wrote:
>> Barrack, I don't see our pt of diff. Media are the first users of
ict and thea is no doubt ict is imptant in a modern ecoomy.  But that's it.
So is freedom of speech and access to information.
>> And we don't have to compare media and ict. What I state and
repeat is the tendency by ict buffs to think only ict in isolation or see
nothing wrong else with the aw as long as their concerns are taken care of, then
say dismissively that there are other iinstitutions to deal with their
legitimate concerns or reason should prevail.  Which? How come ict folks are not
raising their voices on thoz issues they acknowledge media have except as btw or
in a back handed manner? Am very awake to the fact the country desperately
needed to kick up the ict sector with facilitative legislation. I have
personally suffered from its lacking. But we can't gloss over fundamental
issues out of that desperation!
>> China has all the ict you want but wat kind of society is it. You
can't enjoy ict in a repressive environment. And this country is in the cusp
of potential tyranny midwifed by our unresolved political equations that we are
just about to begin to resolve. If any political axis should be handed control
over the media, even with its weaknesses, you will rue the day you dismissed our
protestations.
>> I have written too much and may be I feel too strongly about this but
no emotions. Straight shooting perhaps.
>> David
>>
>> Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Barrack Otieno" <otieno.barrack at gmail.com>
>>
>> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:36:51
>> To: <dmakali at yahoo.com>
>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy
Discussions<kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law
>>
>>
>> Bwana Makali,
>> I think you are being sensational, lets try and get emotions out of
>> this argument, for as long as i can remember media practioners have
>> always rubbished the role of ICT in the countries socio-political
>> landscape, i witnessed this behaviour in a forum sponsored by Unesco
>> at the Grand Regency a couple of years ago which was apparently
>> chaired by CEO's from leading media houses and i can see bwana
makali
>> repeating it on this list which is unaccepatble here even though we
>> are democratic!!, give us a break sir. None the less may be we need
>> our own ministry as Dr Siganga says to champion the ICT agenda and
>> save us from this circus. The Media has a point and we all agree that
>> there are contentious issues that need to be sorted out however let
>> reason prevail, we have instituions in place to handle this kind of
>> problems and they need to be put into use
>>
>> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM,  <dmakali at yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> The media's ref to the comm amendm bill 2008 (yuck!) as media
or ict bill is attributable to two factors. The media have a right and an
editorial licence to abbreviate long and cumbersome names. Do you guys know how
difficult it is to write headlines? Write one to test your editorial skills - 25
letters across 40cms and include all that communications bla bla!?
>>>  Second, the media have a right to christen anything for ease of
reference. Why aren't you media phobes complaining about ndungu, waki,
kriegler or whatever other commissions that don't exist in fact and which
you have quite happily swallowed? wats wrong with the media or ict or (next)
postal bill if it captures the essence of what is on the table or disputed? I
find it trite argument to insist that the media have misrepresented the bill. If
there is nothing contestable about the others, or they are less controversial or
for whatever reason they dim in significance, what is the big deal?
>>> Finally, of course, some media could just have failed to see the
bigger picture and erroneously referred to it as media bill. In which case that
all fair in war and love. You can't moan till morning.
>>> Let's face the facts. The law has bad provisions that only
myopic and selfish people or those with axes to grind the media can't see.
Unfortunately, it takes a very short time before the reality catches up with
such people wen they find themselves on the receiving end.
>>> Jog your memory.
>>> David
>>> Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "waudo siganga" <emailsignet at mailcan.com>
>>>
>>> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:35:00
>>> To: <dmakali at yahoo.com>
>>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy
Discussions<kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks for noting the changing goal posts in terms of the title of
this
>>> Law Alice. In fact a short while ago some referred to it as the
"ICT
>>> Bill" before briefly reverting to Kenya Communications 
(Amendment) Bill
>>> 2008 and then finally resting at "Media Bill". For me I
think I
>>> understand the reasons for this confusion, particularly for the
public:
>>> this is a compound Law in one basket. The lesson I learn is that
in
>>> future we need to change some things otherwise it is possible to
reach a
>>> stage where useful ICT Policy, Legislative and regulatory
development
>>> processes are held back by things that really have nothing to do
with
>>> ICT. What if the courier services who are now regulated by this
Law had
>>> successfully opposed it? We would be missing e-transactions
legislation
>>> simply because of a function that has nothing to do with ICT.
>>> For starters, the Government should restructure so that we have an
ICT
>>> only Ministry like they have in India, Egypt, Mauritius and other
>>> countries worth copying. For many years after independence we had
a
>>> Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. That Minstry should be
revived
>>> to focus on the interests of our media brothers.
>>> Right now it is very difficult to pin down what is "ICT"
in Kenya. Some
>>> of the issues being brought under the umbrella of "ICT"
are those that
>>> the real ICT people cannot contribute to. Some people are saying
>>> everything is OK because of "convergence". But as can be
seen, even
>>> trying to converge Laws is an issue unto itself.
>>>
>>> Waudo
>>> On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:47:32 +0300, "alice"
<alice at apc.org> said:
>>>> I agree and for Pete's/Jane's sake could media drop
the  "media bill"
>>>> reference. It is the Kenya Communications  (Amendment) bill
2008, which
>>>> covers much much more than broadcasting issues. and much more
>>>> importantly it finally deals with issues of convergence from a
>>>> technological, content, regulatory, as well as economic
perspective. it
>>>> is important that the communications "sector" adapts
to this global
>>>> convergence trend/scenario, because it will provide for
expansion of
>>>> universal access to ICTs,  in terms of reducing costs while
stimulating
>>>> economic and social growth. This can only be done through
appropriate
>>>> ICT policy and regulatory mechanisms, which the bill provides
for.
>>>>
>>>> What we should be focusing on are the challenges that will
come with
>>>> this dynamic because adaption to convergence is not the end
point.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> best
>>>> alice
>>>>
>>>> p.s. views are personal and not a reflection of any of the
>>>> institutions/organisations I am affiliated with.
>>>>
>>>> > Great suggestions,
>>>> >
>>>> > I feel we can support the media but not in-toto.
>>>> >
>>>> > First, it would be nice of the MoA et. al. to let go of
the negative
>>>> > "Media Bill" campaign and engage constructively
with other players.
>>>> >
>>>> > Secondly, media should consider calling ICT advocacy
personalities to
>>>> > a forum where they can share how ICT issues have
successfully been
>>>> > incorporated without the animosity that is common when
advocating for
>>>> > media issues.
>>>> >
>>>> > I believe the media needs to feel secure that if their
arguments are
>>>> > valid, they'll have our undivided support....issue by
issue.
>>>> >
>>>> > Wainaina
>>>> >
>>>> > On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai <billkagai at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> >> The 4 fundamentals;
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 1. When the Media fraternity suggested the bill be
rejected in-toto, ICT
>>>> >> sector players felt this was akin to pouring the
birth water together with
>>>> >> the baby. Personally I am happy the ICT issues did
not go down the drain.
>>>> >> And I think that was what many of us were asking for.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 2. The Media has genuine concerns as Haron Ndubi
articulated in his legal
>>>> >> opinion on the probibity of the bill. However, the
Media completely blacked
>>>> >> out ICT sector concerns during our campaign to have
the bill signed. We even
>>>> >> went out of the way to show the remedies to the
issues through the
>>>> >> miscelleneous amendment bill as suggested in the very
fast legal opinion
>>>> >> whose author requested we keep his/her identity
anonymous.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 3. ICT players and especially Kictanet ought to prove
it's the bigger wo/man
>>>> >> by showing solidarity in the front-line with our
cousins in the Media
>>>> >> looking for a way out of the quagmire. We do not have
to ignore them simply
>>>> >> because they refused to side with us in our campaign.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> 4. We are extremely careless in handling crisis. If
you are familiar with
>>>> >> Newton's method of factoring variable change and
the Monty Hall
>>>> >>
Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>,
>>>> >> then we can analyse the options the President had
mathematically.
>>>> >> 4a) Sign Bill
>>>> >> 4b) Don't Sign Bill
>>>> >> 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans in suspense.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Each option had a 33% probability of being the
'right' decision. So,
>>>> >> assuming he had not seen the bill earlier since he
was not the author and
>>>> >> had decided not to sign the bill following the Media
owners petition, was it
>>>> >> wise to change his decision from 'Don't
Sign' to 'Sign'??
>>>> >> Monty Hall
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox> proves that
>>>> >> changing the decision increases the probability of
getting it 'right' to
>>>> >> 66.6%. And that is proven by the fact that we [in
ICT] feel content and
>>>> >> support ways of also making our brothers in the media
achieve 'State of
>>>> >> Nirvana'. This bill will also give the Minister
of Finance some head-up
>>>> >> before he dismisses innovations such as M-Pesa
without prior knowledge.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Conclusion;
>>>> >> For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and other leading Media
personalities who I know
>>>> >> are on this list, why don't you invite ICT
stakeholders in to your media
>>>> >> stations to engage Kenyans on what is good and what
is bad in the ICT [not
>>>> >> Media] bill so that we can fight together against
what we feel is not good??
>>>> >> This has nothing to do with whether the grand
coalition will hold or not,
>>>> >> since neither the Right Honourable nor His Excellency
drafted this bill. We
>>>> >> did and the buck should stop with us!!!
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >> Bildad Kagai
>>>> >> MD - MediaCorp Limited
>>>> >> Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised Information Vendor
>>>> >> Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House Avenue
>>>> >> P. O. Box 20311 - 00200
>>>> >> Nairobi, Kenya
>>>> >> Tel. 254 20 272 8332
>>>> >> Fax. Rendered Obsolete
>>>> >> S - 1°17'13.8"
>>>> >> E - 36°48'22.7"
>>>> >> www.mediacorp.co.ke
>>>> >> ---
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM, alice
<alice at apc.org> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >>> Thank you Wainaina. Happy 2009.
>>>> >>> Now that the bill has been signed, what does the
ICT industry think about
>>>> >>> this whole debate? especially those who have
worked for such a long time
>>>> >>> with government to introduce legislation for the
sector?
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>> best
>>>> >>> alice
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>  Happy New Year for ICT development in Kenya.
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>> We can now look at the Media's concerns
on the Kenya Communications
>>>> >>>> Act and support whatever  amendments may be
justified.
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>> Wainaina
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>>
>>>> >>>
>>>> >>>_______________________________________________
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>>>> >>>
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
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>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Barrack O. Otieno
>> ISSEN CONSULTING
>> Tel:
>> +254721325277
>> +254726544442
>> +254733206359
>> www.issenconsult.com
>> http://projectdiscovery.or.ke
>> To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones
>> responsibility as a free man.
>> Alan Paton, South Africa
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Barrack O. Otieno
> ISSEN CONSULTING
> Tel:
> +254721325277
> +254726544442
> +254733206359
> www.issenconsult.com
> http://projectdiscovery.or.ke
> To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones
> responsibility as a free man.
> Alan Paton, South Africa
>
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