[kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law-Online Discussion-Mon 15th -Fri 19th Jan 2009.

Tue Jan 6 09:22:05 EAT 2009

Alex,

i think u have a good idea.  KICTAnet could try and contribute soberly to this issue by running a structured online discussion on the whole Act but with special emphasis on areas of improvement. Will do that from next Monday 15th and members should read through the Act in preparation.

I do understand where Makali is coming from - him having been a guest of the state during the KANU error(?) over some of these matters and he may have some first-hand insights we dont have. However, the Media must by all means stay responsible in their approach for further amendments- we do not want to burn the whole house in order to flush out the rat. 

Burning the house(nation) seems to be the only angle the Media has resorted to by trying to drive the knife between our fragile coalition in order to retain our(their?) freedom of expression. This is counter-productive because it confirms to the so called 'Government-hawks' that indeed the contentious issues should remain. And as usual when the elephants fight we all know who suffers.

walu.
--- On Tue, 1/6/09, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists at gmail.com> wrote:

> From: Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists at gmail.com>
> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law
> To: jwalu at yahoo.com
> Cc: kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
> Date: Tuesday, January 6, 2009, 7:14 AM
> Barrak,
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 10:29 PM, Barrack Otieno
> <otieno.barrack at gmail.com> wrote:
> > You have a point David, this convergence business is a
> bit confusing
> > to the waheshimiwa as well as a good number of
> Kenyans, i bet eighty
> > percent might no understand what is going on, Alex you
> seem to be
> > having some answers though your answers are too
> complicated :)
> > Let the debate continue
> 
> ok a suggestion,,, to make things easier, I propose you +
> Makali +
> Walu + Wainaina as co-moderators on a (week-long?) online
> discussion
> on the Act;) This way we shall all chip in our opinion on
> every
> section.
> 
> Why dya say buddy? other listers views?
> 
> regards,
> 
> Alex
> 
> 
> 
> > On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 9:14 PM, 
> <dmakali at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >> Barrack, I don't see our pt of diff. Media are
> the first users of ict and thea is no doubt ict is imptant
> in a modern ecoomy.  But that's it. So is freedom of
> speech and access to information.
> >> And we don't have to compare media and ict.
> What I state and repeat is the tendency by ict buffs to
> think only ict in isolation or see nothing wrong else with
> the aw as long as their concerns are taken care of, then say
> dismissively that there are other iinstitutions to deal with
> their legitimate concerns or reason should prevail.  Which?
> How come ict folks are not raising their voices on thoz
> issues they acknowledge media have except as btw or in a
> back handed manner? Am very awake to the fact the country
> desperately needed to kick up the ict sector with
> facilitative legislation. I have personally suffered from
> its lacking. But we can't gloss over fundamental issues
> out of that desperation!
> >> China has all the ict you want but wat kind of
> society is it. You can't enjoy ict in a repressive
> environment. And this country is in the cusp of potential
> tyranny midwifed by our unresolved political equations that
> we are just about to begin to resolve. If any political axis
> should be handed control over the media, even with its
> weaknesses, you will rue the day you dismissed our
> protestations.
> >> I have written too much and may be I feel too
> strongly about this but no emotions. Straight shooting
> perhaps.
> >> David
> >>
> >> Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: "Barrack Otieno"
> <otieno.barrack at gmail.com>
> >>
> >> Date: Mon, 5 Jan 2009 20:36:51
> >> To: <dmakali at yahoo.com>
> >> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy
> Discussions<kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into law
> >>
> >>
> >> Bwana Makali,
> >> I think you are being sensational, lets try and
> get emotions out of
> >> this argument, for as long as i can remember media
> practioners have
> >> always rubbished the role of ICT in the countries
> socio-political
> >> landscape, i witnessed this behaviour in a forum
> sponsored by Unesco
> >> at the Grand Regency a couple of years ago which
> was apparently
> >> chaired by CEO's from leading media houses and
> i can see bwana makali
> >> repeating it on this list which is unaccepatble
> here even though we
> >> are democratic!!, give us a break sir. None the
> less may be we need
> >> our own ministry as Dr Siganga says to champion
> the ICT agenda and
> >> save us from this circus. The Media has a point
> and we all agree that
> >> there are contentious issues that need to be
> sorted out however let
> >> reason prevail, we have instituions in place to
> handle this kind of
> >> problems and they need to be put into use
> >>
> >> On Mon, Jan 5, 2009 at 6:59 PM, 
> <dmakali at yahoo.com> wrote:
> >>> The media's ref to the comm amendm bill
> 2008 (yuck!) as media or ict bill is attributable to two
> factors. The media have a right and an editorial licence to
> abbreviate long and cumbersome names. Do you guys know how
> difficult it is to write headlines? Write one to test your
> editorial skills - 25 letters across 40cms and include all
> that communications bla bla!?
> >>>  Second, the media have a right to christen
> anything for ease of reference. Why aren't you media
> phobes complaining about ndungu, waki, kriegler or whatever
> other commissions that don't exist in fact and which you
> have quite happily swallowed? wats wrong with the media or
> ict or (next) postal bill if it captures the essence of what
> is on the table or disputed? I find it trite argument to
> insist that the media have misrepresented the bill. If there
> is nothing contestable about the others, or they are less
> controversial or for whatever reason they dim in
> significance, what is the big deal?
> >>> Finally, of course, some media could just have
> failed to see the bigger picture and erroneously referred to
> it as media bill. In which case that all fair in war and
> love. You can't moan till morning.
> >>> Let's face the facts. The law has bad
> provisions that only myopic and selfish people or those with
> axes to grind the media can't see. Unfortunately, it
> takes a very short time before the reality catches up with
> such people wen they find themselves on the receiving end.
> >>> Jog your memory.
> >>> David
> >>> Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device
> >>>
> >>> -----Original Message-----
> >>> From: "waudo siganga"
> <emailsignet at mailcan.com>
> >>>
> >>> Date: Mon, 05 Jan 2009 18:35:00
> >>> To: <dmakali at yahoo.com>
> >>> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy
> Discussions<kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> >>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Kibaki signs Bill into
> law
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for noting the changing goal posts in
> terms of the title of this
> >>> Law Alice. In fact a short while ago some
> referred to it as the "ICT
> >>> Bill" before briefly reverting to Kenya
> Communications  (Amendment) Bill
> >>> 2008 and then finally resting at "Media
> Bill". For me I think I
> >>> understand the reasons for this confusion,
> particularly for the public:
> >>> this is a compound Law in one basket. The
> lesson I learn is that in
> >>> future we need to change some things otherwise
> it is possible to reach a
> >>> stage where useful ICT Policy, Legislative and
> regulatory development
> >>> processes are held back by things that really
> have nothing to do with
> >>> ICT. What if the courier services who are now
> regulated by this Law had
> >>> successfully opposed it? We would be missing
> e-transactions legislation
> >>> simply because of a function that has nothing
> to do with ICT.
> >>> For starters, the Government should
> restructure so that we have an ICT
> >>> only Ministry like they have in India, Egypt,
> Mauritius and other
> >>> countries worth copying. For many years after
> independence we had a
> >>> Ministry of Information and Broadcasting. That
> Minstry should be revived
> >>> to focus on the interests of our media
> brothers.
> >>> Right now it is very difficult to pin down
> what is "ICT" in Kenya. Some
> >>> of the issues being brought under the umbrella
> of "ICT" are those that
> >>> the real ICT people cannot contribute to. Some
> people are saying
> >>> everything is OK because of
> "convergence". But as can be seen, even
> >>> trying to converge Laws is an issue unto
> itself.
> >>>
> >>> Waudo
> >>> On Mon, 05 Jan 2009 17:47:32 +0300,
> "alice" <alice at apc.org> said:
> >>>> I agree and for Pete's/Jane's sake
> could media drop the  "media bill"
> >>>> reference. It is the Kenya Communications 
> (Amendment) bill 2008, which
> >>>> covers much much more than broadcasting
> issues. and much more
> >>>> importantly it finally deals with issues
> of convergence from a
> >>>> technological, content, regulatory, as
> well as economic perspective. it
> >>>> is important that the communications
> "sector" adapts to this global
> >>>> convergence trend/scenario, because it
> will provide for expansion of
> >>>> universal access to ICTs,  in terms of
> reducing costs while stimulating
> >>>> economic and social growth. This can only
> be done through appropriate
> >>>> ICT policy and regulatory mechanisms,
> which the bill provides for.
> >>>>
> >>>> What we should be focusing on are the
> challenges that will come with
> >>>> this dynamic because adaption to
> convergence is not the end point.
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> best
> >>>> alice
> >>>>
> >>>> p.s. views are personal and not a
> reflection of any of the
> >>>> institutions/organisations I am affiliated
> with.
> >>>>
> >>>> > Great suggestions,
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I feel we can support the media but
> not in-toto.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > First, it would be nice of the MoA
> et. al. to let go of the negative
> >>>> > "Media Bill" campaign and
> engage constructively with other players.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Secondly, media should consider
> calling ICT advocacy personalities to
> >>>> > a forum where they can share how ICT
> issues have successfully been
> >>>> > incorporated without the animosity
> that is common when advocating for
> >>>> > media issues.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > I believe the media needs to feel
> secure that if their arguments are
> >>>> > valid, they'll have our undivided
> support....issue by issue.
> >>>> >
> >>>> > Wainaina
> >>>> >
> >>>> > On 1/4/09, Bill Kagai
> <billkagai at gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> >
> >>>> >> The 4 fundamentals;
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> 1. When the Media fraternity
> suggested the bill be rejected in-toto, ICT
> >>>> >> sector players felt this was akin
> to pouring the birth water together with
> >>>> >> the baby. Personally I am happy
> the ICT issues did not go down the drain.
> >>>> >> And I think that was what many of
> us were asking for.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> 2. The Media has genuine concerns
> as Haron Ndubi articulated in his legal
> >>>> >> opinion on the probibity of the
> bill. However, the Media completely blacked
> >>>> >> out ICT sector concerns during
> our campaign to have the bill signed. We even
> >>>> >> went out of the way to show the
> remedies to the issues through the
> >>>> >> miscelleneous amendment bill as
> suggested in the very fast legal opinion
> >>>> >> whose author requested we keep
> his/her identity anonymous.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> 3. ICT players and especially
> Kictanet ought to prove it's the bigger wo/man
> >>>> >> by showing solidarity in the
> front-line with our cousins in the Media
> >>>> >> looking for a way out of the
> quagmire. We do not have to ignore them simply
> >>>> >> because they refused to side with
> us in our campaign.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> 4. We are extremely careless in
> handling crisis. If you are familiar with
> >>>> >> Newton's method of factoring
> variable change and the Monty Hall
> >>>> >>
> Paradox<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>,
> >>>> >> then we can analyse the options
> the President had mathematically.
> >>>> >> 4a) Sign Bill
> >>>> >> 4b) Don't Sign Bill
> >>>> >> 4c) Do nothing and hold Kenyans
> in suspense.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Each option had a 33% probability
> of being the 'right' decision. So,
> >>>> >> assuming he had not seen the bill
> earlier since he was not the author and
> >>>> >> had decided not to sign the bill
> following the Media owners petition, was it
> >>>> >> wise to change his decision from
> 'Don't Sign' to 'Sign'??
> >>>> >> Monty Hall
> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monty_Hall_paradox>
> proves that
> >>>> >> changing the decision increases
> the probability of getting it 'right' to
> >>>> >> 66.6%. And that is proven by the
> fact that we [in ICT] feel content and
> >>>> >> support ways of also making our
> brothers in the media achieve 'State of
> >>>> >> Nirvana'. This bill will also
> give the Minister of Finance some head-up
> >>>> >> before he dismisses innovations
> such as M-Pesa without prior knowledge.
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> Conclusion;
> >>>> >> For Makali, Openda, Kaikai and
> other leading Media personalities who I know
> >>>> >> are on this list, why don't
> you invite ICT stakeholders in to your media
> >>>> >> stations to engage Kenyans on
> what is good and what is bad in the ICT [not
> >>>> >> Media] bill so that we can fight
> together against what we feel is not good??
> >>>> >> This has nothing to do with
> whether the grand coalition will hold or not,
> >>>> >> since neither the Right
> Honourable nor His Excellency drafted this bill. We
> >>>> >> did and the buck should stop with
> us!!!
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> --
> >>>> >> Bildad Kagai
> >>>> >> MD - MediaCorp Limited
> >>>> >> Nairobi Stock Exchange Authorised
> Information Vendor
> >>>> >> Suite B2, Tetu Court, State House
> Avenue
> >>>> >> P. O. Box 20311 - 00200
> >>>> >> Nairobi, Kenya
> >>>> >> Tel. 254 20 272 8332
> >>>> >> Fax. Rendered Obsolete
> >>>> >> S - 1°17'13.8"
> >>>> >> E - 36°48'22.7"
> >>>> >> www.mediacorp.co.ke
> >>>> >> ---
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >> On Sun, Jan 4, 2009 at 6:21 PM,
> alice <alice at apc.org> wrote:
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>
> >>>> >>> Thank you Wainaina. Happy
> 2009.
> >>>> >>> Now that the bill has been
> signed, what does the ICT industry think about
> >>>> >>> this whole debate? especially
> those who have worked for such a long time
> >>>> >>> with government to introduce
> legislation for the sector?
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>> best
> >>>> >>> alice
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>  Happy New Year for ICT
> development in Kenya.
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>> We can now look at the
> Media's concerns on the Kenya Communications
> >>>> >>>> Act and support whatever 
> amendments may be justified.
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>> Wainaina
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>_______________________________________________
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> >>>> >>>
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> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >>>
> >>>> >
> >>>> >
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>_______________________________________________
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> --
> >> Barrack O. Otieno
> >> ISSEN CONSULTING
> >> Tel:
> >> +254721325277
> >> +254726544442
> >> +254733206359
> >> www.issenconsult.com
> >> http://projectdiscovery.or.ke
> >> To give up the task of reforming society is to
> give up ones
> >> responsibility as a free man.
> >> Alan Paton, South Africa
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Barrack O. Otieno
> > ISSEN CONSULTING
> > Tel:
> > +254721325277
> > +254726544442
> > +254733206359
> > www.issenconsult.com
> > http://projectdiscovery.or.ke
> > To give up the task of reforming society is to give up
> ones
> > responsibility as a free man.
> > Alan Paton, South Africa
> >
> > _______________________________________________
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