[kictanet] Tandaa - An Honest Analysis

Tue Nov 18 15:04:48 EAT 2008

Fantastic discussion anyway, this comments should be viewed in the
right perspective even though they are scathing at times, i guess we
are heading somewhere albeit at a slow pace
Regards

On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
> Josiah
>
> If someone doesnt agree with how Michael Joseph runs safaricom, they should
> be the CEO?
>
> Does that argument make sense at all. Should we not see anything wrong with
> the conference or anything organised by ICT board?
>
> Why are people having so much phobia for criticism? Arrogance and phobia
> wont stop us. Kenya is for the critics and the victims of the critics.
>
> Have an open mind and dont wish that we will just dissappear. I hold Paul
> Kukubo in high respect in this country. I stil have the first newspaper
> cutting from East Africa Standards when 3 mice came to being. I wanted to be
> a lawyer but that article made me pursue IT and to date. Nobody in this
> country's ICT will hold a dear place in my career like as Paul Kukubo and
> Betty Mwaniki.
>
> Telling me that if I dont agree with Raila's leadership then I also form my
> country and be the PM is cheap and doesnt say much about your
> professionalism
>
> Alai
>
> On 11/18/08, Josiah Mugambi <jmugambi at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> Hi people,
>>
>> I've been following this conversation with interest (unnecessarily heated
>> I
>> must say).
>> I have
>>
>> A couple of questions:
>>
>> What would be the definition of local content?
>>
>> - any content hosted locally
>> - local content hosted anywhere
>> - local content hosted locally
>> - <something>
>>
>> This local content issue has been discussed over and over again. It would
>> probably help if there's a general understanding of what local content is.
>> As it is there's some confusion whether a swahili site hosted somewhere in
>> Canada would qualify as local content. Maybe if this is clear, we could
>> move
>> towards the how to spur generation of local content.
>>
>>
>> Is it ethical to add someone to an email list without their consent?
>> - Yes
>> - No
>>
>> And a couple of comments:
>>
>> If some people would feel that TANDAA was not what it should be, why not
>> just organise what they'd consider an ideal showcase of local content?
>> It's
>> a free world. Personal attacks don't take us anywhere.
>>
>> I was not able to attend TANDAA due to other commitments. I've however
>> learnt about kasarani.com, askadoc.co.ke from the various emails and blog
>> posts. Interesting stuff. I wouldn't be able to give any assessment on the
>> success or otherwise of the event, so I won't.
>>
>> An aside: would ushahidi.com be considered local content... considering
>> that it's already being used as a tool  within the conflict afflicted DRC.
>> (check out www.ushahidi.com for more info) Looks like its more than just
>> local.
>>
>> Regards
>> Josiah
>>
>> On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 1:42 PM, Robert Alai <alai.robert at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>> Wainaina
>>>
>>> Thanks for this one
>>>
>>> I now agree with you and hiyo ni maendeleo
>>>
>>> The how is very key here.
>>>
>>> As for thee mailing list (mine), we are happy. If you are not and I have
>>> not addressed your problem, send me a mail showing the complaints you
>>> sent
>>> to me and was not addressed. I make sure that I address all complaints
>>> and
>>> dont discriminate and if you complain, infact I dont just remove you, I
>>> ban
>>> you so that my other buddies wont ever add you
>>>
>>> Regards
>>> Robert
>>>
>>>
>>> On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina at madeinkenya.org> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Hi all,
>>>>
>>>> The issue building up here is on HOW to generate local content and the
>>>> ways not to do it.
>>>>
>>>> We have seen cases of ''how not to do it'' as per the mailinglists and
>>>> websites facing complaints from listers here.
>>>>
>>>> I believe members can now find way on 'how to' generate and collate
>>>> local content in solutions such as Ushahidi.com and BungeSMS.com that
>>>> seek to exploit the pervasive nature of mobile telephony to increase
>>>> citizen generated content on the web.
>>>>
>>>> Google Kenya has done a great job with Google maps that now has easily
>>>> searchable maps of Nairobi even via mobile devices such as smartphones
>>>> with GPS feature coupled with data through the GSM networks. A
>>>> security & privacy question however arises here even as the content
>>>> question has been addressed.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> > Wainaina
>>>> >
>>>> > Know that the fact that you dont agree with someone doesnt mean that
>>>> you
>>>> > must raid the media house.
>>>> >
>>>> > Thats what you are trying to say here. We are discussing IT matters
>>>> > and
>>>> what
>>>> > you bring are your personal problems.
>>>> >
>>>> > If you have spammed my address and lists, why make noise? Blacklists
>>>> them. I
>>>> > will handle that in another way and know that I am registered in this
>>>> forum
>>>> > all through and this forum doesnt belong to Wainaina and the ealier
>>>> > you
>>>> > realise that the better for you. Lets discuss matters which help this
>>>> nation
>>>> > and not go personal because let me assure you that for every on of my
>>>> > actions before and in th future, I have a perfect answer for them.
>>>> >
>>>> > If you have a problem with BidiiAfrika send an email to
>>>> > bidiiafrika-owner at googlegroups.com.
>>>> >
>>>> > And again on Media, I like NMG since they have toned rhetoric and very
>>>> high
>>>> > voltage news unlike KTN and standard group which still report like
>>>> Kenya is
>>>> > going to war. I disagree with them but surely I wont like anybody
>>>> raiding
>>>> > them
>>>> >
>>>> > Regards
>>>> > Alai
>>>> >
>>>> > On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina at madeinkenya.org> wrote:
>>>> >>
>>>> >> This is exactly the feedback I expected. I'm not at all disappointed
>>>> >> as it has happened before.
>>>> >>
>>>> >> KICTANet needs to do something about importing such conduct from
>>>> >> other
>>>> >> lists.
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Wainaina
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> On 11/18/08, Robert Alai <alai.robert at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> > Hi all,
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a
>>>> >> > critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing
>>>> thus
>>>> >> > I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam
>>>> >> > addresses.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and
>>>> >> > "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of
>>>> >> > subscription by choice rather than forced numbers.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa,
>>>> bidii
>>>> >> > africa and other lists.
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Wainaina. See the reply I gave to Gakuru. Blame your teacher and
>>>> >> > you
>>>> >> > have
>>>> >> no
>>>> >> > use being in KICTANET if you cant even know how to operate simple
>>>> email
>>>> >> > addresses in,lists
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > Alai
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> >
>>>> >> > On 11/18/08, Wainaina Mungai <wainaina at madeinkenya.org> wrote:
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Hi all,
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> As indicated by Alex, spam & forced mailinglist subscriptions is a
>>>> >> >> critical "local content" issue now that Alai has pointed fingers.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> I have been forced onto lists that do not allow for unsubscribing
>>>> thus
>>>> >> >> I have marked Alai's address and his mailinglists as spam
>>>> addresses.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Robert, please sort that out first so that the "traffic" and
>>>> >> >> "subscription" numbers on your lists is a true reflection of
>>>> >> >> subscription by choice rather than forced numbers.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> I bet someone else has had the same experience with Kazi africa,
>>>> bidii
>>>> >> >> africa and other lists.
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Wainaina
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> On 11/18/08, Gakuru Alex <alexgakuru.lists at gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> >> >> > Alai,
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > I am somewhat now tempted to start a local content blog focusing
>>>> on
>>>> >> >> > 'opinion influencers' and opinion shapers themselves - informed
>>>> by
>>>> >> >> > the
>>>> >> >> > fact that, content is king and awaited 'future online content
>>>> >> >> > warfare'
>>>> >> >> > arrived a long time ago.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > So despite excluding my skunkworks presentation from your firing
>>>> >> >> > squad, I shall nonetheless shoot back at you;)
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > On Tue, Nov 18, 2008 at 12:37 AM, Robert Alai <
>>>> alai.robert at gmail.com>
>>>> >> >> wrote:
>>>> >> >> >> Mirembe
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> I have a very open and honest analysis of our Tandaa
>>>> >> >> >> conference.
>>>> >> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >> The facts which we must change is that Paul Kukubo, my big
>>>> brother
>>>> >> >> >> still
>>>> >> >> >> sees it best to defend foreign companies and say that "eve if
>>>> >> >> >> we
>>>> >> >> >> want
>>>> >> >> >> local
>>>> >> >> >> content we must stilldo it with foreigners'.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Paul stated, "Let's realise that Internet is one. How can have
>>>> 'our
>>>> >> >> > Internet' so shielded away for 'outsiders Internet' to the
>>>> >> >> > extent
>>>> >> >> > that
>>>> >> >> > 'our content' is only accessible to us yet somehow  we expected
>>>> to
>>>> >> >> > make money from 'outsiders' through 'our Internet'? Maybe we
>>>> should
>>>> >> >> > not use downloaded [even-free] 'foreign' software, 'foreign'
>>>> >> >> > computers, 'foreign' concepts, nothing 'foreign' except only
>>>> localyy
>>>> >> >> > made?" That was heavy!
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >>Let me tell you a thing. We
>>>> >> >> >> must focus on local mpaka it becomes music. When I saw the
>>>> slides of
>>>> >> >> >> Joe
>>>> >> >> >> Mucheru, which apparently I have seen in every conference I
>>>> >> >> >> have
>>>> >> >> attended
>>>> >> >> >> in
>>>> >> >> >> which he is the speaker. The websites listed there, non were
>>>> Kenyan.
>>>> >> >> >> The
>>>> >> >> >> fact that Mucheru works for a Carlifornian company and he is
>>>> Kenyan
>>>> >> >> should
>>>> >> >> >> make Mucheru sell Kenya more.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Its what all (or at least the majority of) the people in that
>>>> room
>>>> >> >> > were there *actually doing* Give Mucheru a break. (You stand
>>>> accused
>>>> >> >> > of promoting 'foreign content' by using Google mailing lists;)
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >> If you wanted a subscription website, you
>>>> >> >> >> should have started with kenyalaw.org. If you wanted
>>>> affiliates,
>>>> >> >> >> mamamikes.com has affiliates. Lets focus on local. Lets give it
>>>> lots
>>>> >> of
>>>> >> >> >> thought. We must give local examples and then mention the
>>>> foreign
>>>> >> ones
>>>> >> >> >> just
>>>> >> >> >> as an after-thought.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > I wish you had asked ICT Board to make a presentation to the
>>>> audience
>>>> >> >> > to articulate you point?
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >> We want the companies to give the local content much thought
>>>> >> >> >> and
>>>> >> >> >> they
>>>> >> >> can
>>>> >> >> >> only do that when they think locally. When you make people
>>>> believe
>>>> >> that
>>>> >> >> >> facebook is great, we wont head anywhere. See why Tanzanians
>>>> >> >> >> are
>>>> >> >> engaging
>>>> >> >> >> more in bongo5.com and jamiiforums than facebook and others.
>>>> They
>>>> >> are
>>>> >> >> >> actively loading pics and content and these two websites are
>>>> really
>>>> >> >> coming
>>>> >> >> >> up well and considreing the age of the websites, we will see
>>>> nice
>>>> >> >> >> things
>>>> >> >> >> from them. We should not glorify anything western. We must
>>>> >> >> >> start
>>>> >> >> >> appreciating our own facebook like Ngari has developed a good
>>>> site,
>>>> >> >> >> www.kasarani.com
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Kasarani is your website, right? The conference was not a sales
>>>> pitch
>>>> >> >> > for *anyone* but a conversation exploring various ways to
>>>> >> >> > promote
>>>> >> >> > local content.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >> When I started my start forum and blogging thing,
>>>> jamiiforums.com,
>>>> >> we
>>>> >> >> had
>>>> >> >> >> lots of problems. But we also had people telling us that the
>>>> forum
>>>> >> >> >> which
>>>> >> >> >> is
>>>> >> >> >> being run by my great friend Maxence, was going nowhere because
>>>> >> >> Tanzanians
>>>> >> >> >> don't speak a lot of English. See the site now. I don't think
>>>> that
>>>> >> >> >> there
>>>> >> >> >> is
>>>> >> >> >> any forum in this region with that kind of killer traffic.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Me, me, me again... Try a bit of our, our, our, country's local
>>>> >> content.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >> There is no forum
>>>> >> >> >> in this region which makes the government shakes like hell when
>>>> >> issues
>>>> >> >> are
>>>> >> >> >> being analyzed there. And they are doing it most of the time in
>>>> >> >> >> Swahili.
>>>> >> >> >> We
>>>> >> >> >> must focus on being local if we want local content.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > 'Government' is a strange 3-legged animal Executive,
>>>> >> >> > Legislature,
>>>> and
>>>> >> >> > Judiciacy.
>>>> >> >> > If one makes this animal 'shake like hell,' that person ought to
>>>> be
>>>> >> >> > in
>>>> >> >> > very serious trouble...
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >> NMG bought a script from Germans and installed it on their site
>>>> >> without
>>>> >> >> a
>>>> >> >> >> forum nor blogs for the senior writers. Why? No creativity.
>>>> >> >> >> NTV,
>>>> >> EasyFm
>>>> >> >> >> and
>>>> >> >> >> QFM are not online. A very good percentage of articles in
>>>> Mailbox
>>>> >> >> >> are
>>>> >> >> >> plagiarized from blogs and forums without acknowledgement and
>>>> >> articles
>>>> >> >> in
>>>> >> >> >> entertainment and lifestyle mazagines are plagiarized from
>>>> magazines
>>>> >> >> like
>>>> >> >> >> cosmopolitan and Elle sometimes word for word.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Why so excessive negative energy? There must be something NMG
>>>> have
>>>> >> done
>>>> >> >> > right?
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >> The Tandaa website was .com and not .co.ke. Even if you are not
>>>> >> hosting
>>>> >> >> >> locally, you could still have had a local domain registration.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Had you tried http://www.tandaa.co.ke/ before the conference?
>>>> BTW, I
>>>> >> >> > host websites abroad many times and I have no problems with it.
>>>> It
>>>> >> >> > can
>>>> >> >> > be a business decision why host locally with painfully expensive
>>>> ISP?
>>>> >> >> > Host 'politically incorrect' website at a pro-conformist
>>>> >> >> > provider
>>>> >> >> > 'anti-telcos' content with one of them.... etc.. It's a matrix
>>>> >> >> > of
>>>> >> >> > decision making procees..
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >> The funniest thing I got from the conference, why would 6 or 7
>>>> >> speakers
>>>> >> >> >> speak for 15 minutes each and then  the forum audience is given
>>>> 10
>>>> >> >> minutes
>>>> >> >> >> to ask questions and suggestions?
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > The sun waits for no King and time has never been enough.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >>Do you know that the slides from Capital,
>>>> >> >> >> NMG, Google, Homeboyz, Kictanet, ICT board, Strathmore, Rich,
>>>> Cisco
>>>> >> and
>>>> >> >> >> others are shown to us almost in every conference we attend.
>>>> They
>>>> >> have
>>>> >> >> >> become so predictable that the best place to get more stories
>>>> and
>>>> >> even
>>>> >> >> >> slides which you have never seen is from the public.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Would you also be suggesting that new school textbooks be
>>>> published
>>>> >> >> > every
>>>> >> >> > year?
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >>Givingg 15 minutes to
>>>> >> >> >> each speaker which is 105 minutes for the seven speakers then
>>>> the
>>>> >> >> audience
>>>> >> >> >> asks and get replies in 10 minutes is really not correct and
>>>> shows
>>>> >> and
>>>> >> >> >> attitude of escapism where te audience are feared that they
>>>> might
>>>> >> >> embarass
>>>> >> >> >> the speakers with questions.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > You just created conveniently suitable circumstances to arrive
>>>> >> >> > at
>>>> >> >> > your
>>>> >> >> > conclusion?
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >> The other facts of the conference was ok. The moderator, Al
>>>> Kags,
>>>> >> >> >> was
>>>> >> >> >> ok
>>>> >> >> >> but
>>>> >> >> >> I think that we can do alot of improvements by having power
>>>> cable
>>>> >> well
>>>> >> >> >> spread for bloggers and also the Wi-Fi to be abit superior. I
>>>> had to
>>>> >> >> rely
>>>> >> >> >> on
>>>> >> >> >> my Zain unlimited since the ICT board Wi-fi kept shutting down.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Would it not have been fair to mention some of those 'ok' facts.
>>>> Its
>>>> >> >> > called "fair commentating"
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >> We also think that we can have an active network and the best
>>>> place
>>>> >> to
>>>> >> >> >> start
>>>> >> >> >> is now here in KICTANET. I see us turning KICTANET into an open
>>>> >> >> vbulletin
>>>> >> >> >> run forum with CMS managed frontpage like www.haitiwebs.com and
>>>> >> >> >> www.mustangevolution.com. Vbulletin is so superior and it wont
>>>> take
>>>> >> us
>>>> >> >> >> even
>>>> >> >> >> a day to have this thing up and running.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Dunno..
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> >> Senior members, what do you think?
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > I just have. But allow me to add that *nix users have this thing
>>>> >> >> > about
>>>> >> >> > multi-thread thought processes which lead me to advice users to
>>>> >> >> > format
>>>> >> >> > their Windows and install *nix. It makes engagement
>>>> >> >> > multi-faceted
>>>> >> >> > critique and criticize when necessesary but also appreciate and
>>>> >> >> > praise
>>>> >> >> > excellent achievement.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Tandaa.08 was an excellent event and I wish the ICT board could
>>>> >> >> > explain to us who were the brains behind it. They can count on
>>>> >> >> > me
>>>> for
>>>> >> >> > their next such conference.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Rider:
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > There is a clip one run NTV of an Edloret pharmacist who
>>>> >> >> > literary
>>>> and
>>>> >> >> > severally slapped himself on the face upon being visited by
>>>> >> >> > Pharmacies
>>>> >> >> > and Poisons Board drug inspectors.
>>>> >> >> > Let's not always take the shrtest route to slap every great
>>>> >> >> > initiative, erroneously.
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > Also we avoid "local content spam", for example, forced mailing
>>>> lists
>>>> >> >> > subscriptions;)
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >> > G'day,
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> > _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> > kictanet mailing list
>>>> >> >> > kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>> >> >> > http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> > This message was sent to: wainaina at madeinkenya.org
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> > Unsubscribe or change your options at
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/wainaina%40madeinkenya.org
>>>> >> >> >
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> --
>>>> >> >> Sent from my mobile device
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> Made in Kenya Network
>>>> >> >> Apt. B-8, Elite Park
>>>> >> >> Ole Odume Road
>>>> >> >> P. O. Box 72031 - 00200
>>>> >> >> Nairobi. Kenya
>>>> >> >> Tel:   +254-20-3590451
>>>> >> >> Cel:  +254-722-811171
>>>> >> >> Cel:  +254-735-370840
>>>> >> >> www.madeinkenya.org
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> http://www.bungesms.com
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> _______________________________________________
>>>> >> >> kictanet mailing list
>>>> >> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>> >> >> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >> This message was sent to: alai.robert at gmail.com
>>>> >> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alai.robert%40gmail.com
>>>> >> >>
>>>> >> >
>>>> >>
>>>> >>
>>>> >> --
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Sent from my mobile device
>>>> >>
>>>> >> Made in Kenya Network
>>>> >> Apt. B-8, Elite Park
>>>> >> Ole Odume Road
>>>> >> P. O. Box 72031 - 00200
>>>> >> Nairobi. Kenya
>>>> >> Tel:   +254-20-3590451
>>>> >> Cel:  +254-722-811171
>>>> >> Cel:  +254-735-370840
>>>> >> www.madeinkenya.org
>>>> >>
>>>> >> http://www.bungesms.com
>>>> >>
>>>> >
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>>
>>>> Sent from my mobile device
>>>>
>>>> Made in Kenya Network
>>>> Apt. B-8, Elite Park
>>>> Ole Odume Road
>>>> P. O. Box 72031 - 00200
>>>> Nairobi. Kenya
>>>> Tel:   +254-20-3590451
>>>> Cel:  +254-722-811171
>>>> Cel:  +254-735-370840
>>>> www.madeinkenya.org
>>>>
>>>> http://www.bungesms.com
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> kictanet mailing list
>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>
>>> This message was sent to: jmugambi at gmail.com
>>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/jmugambi%40gmail.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Josiah Mugambi
>> +254 738 504418
>>
>> http://blog.josiahmugambi.com
>>
>> SK Classifeds... Visit stockskenya.co.ke for more info.
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> kictanet mailing list
>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>
>> This message was sent to: alai.robert at gmail.com
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at
>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/alai.robert%40gmail.com
>>
>>
>


-- 
Barrack O. Otieno
ISSEN CONSULTING
Tel:
+254721325277
+254726544442
+254733206359
www.issenconsult.com
http://projectdiscovery.or.ke
To give up the task of reforming society is to give up ones
responsibility as a free man.
Alan Paton, South Africa