[kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya
Joseph Manthi
jmanthi at gmail.com
Sat Jul 12 23:35:35 EAT 2008
Brian
We can stick our heads into the sands all we want but when you look
around Kenya you will see major chunks of the economy controlled by
foreigners.
No self respecting peoples should allow this to happen. Misquoting
Nyerere - this is ukoloni mamboleo.
What really concerns me right now - and it really pains me - is that
we are about tobgive up the ICT industry to a bunch of foreigners. If
this is not ICT policy I do not know what is.
Again go to India and the EEU and tell me how many Africans are
running major ICT corporations.
Why are we letting this happen? So that we can look like we are
civilized? Does any one else see what I am saying?
Joe
Joseph Manthi
CEO, MEO Ltd
T:603 320 2924
F:315 320 2920
On Jul 12, 2008, at 3:38 PM, Brian Munyao Longwe <blongwe at gmail.com>
wrote:
> Hi John,
>
> That kind of talk and reasoning is not helpful. There are actually
> very many Kenyans out there doing business and being successful all
> over the world.
>
> We should avoid racist/xenophobic insinuations on this list. We have
> already in the recent past permanently suspended members who
> persisted in ethic hate-speak. This forum is not a platform for our
> pet peeves or hangups.
>
> I would urge members to think about whether the comment/contribution
> is related to ICT in terms of policy, advocacy, strategy and/or
> awareness and desist from posting if not.
>
> Brian
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On 12 Jul 2008, at 9:12 PM, "Joseph Manthi" <jmanthi at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Kevit
>> This is the height of arrogance - excuse my sceptism. The names you
>> have just mentioned are the exact reasons why Kenyan's should be
>> very ashamed of themselves.
>>
>> I do not see Kenyan's directing major corporations in India and
>> Europe.
>>
>> Joe
>>
>> On Sat, Jul 12, 2008 at 12:52 PM, kevit desai <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com
>> > wrote:
>> Dear Brian,
>>
>> Apologies accepted. And thank you Mr Chairman.
>>
>>
>>
>> Wambui it is acceptable to challenge governance structures and also
>> wish to know more about associations. How else will we seek your
>> support with some off the very exciting things we are doing.
>>
>>
>>
>> What deeply concerns me is the notion that associations should be
>> run by Kenyans. We all have to rise well above this, especially
>> when we see the success and contributions of some people. Kenya's
>> grateful to have people like Mike Eldon, Steve Smith, Michael
>> Joseph, Marcel Werner, and others, they have contributed so much.
>> Even to the peace process let alone the advances in ICT's.
>>
>> Kictanet must stamp out any form of racist remarks. This is the
>> lowest of the lowest, and contributes to disengagement. Rules have
>> to be put in place.
>>
>>
>>
>> Your leadership is a sigh of relief. And I look forward to you
>> uniting us all to a common vision of ICT's for National development.
>>
>>
>>
>> I am waiting….
>>
>>
>>
>> Kevit Desai
>>
>>
>>
>> From: kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>> ] On Behalf Of Brian Munyao Longwe
>> Sent: 12 July 2008 09:50
>> To: kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com
>> Cc: kictanet-lists
>> Subject: [kictanet] Discipline & Ethics - Re: Legislation and
>> Regulation fore-Commerce in Kenya
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Marcel/Kevit/KIF,
>>
>>
>>
>> I will personally take this opportunity to apologize on behalf of
>> KICTANET for the ills which KIF has suffered in the recent dialogue.
>>
>>
>>
>> As Kevit (and you) have clearly pointed out, KiF has welcomed
>> anyone with questions to have these answered in person while at the
>> same time providing as many answers as this media allows.
>>
>>
>>
>> I know both yourself and Kevit to be men of integrity and seriously
>> dedicated to the advancement of IcTs in Kenya. I now humbly beg you
>> to forgive the indiscretions by some of our members in their misuse
>> of this forum.
>>
>>
>>
>> As Chairperson of this Network I will not stand by and see this
>> forum turned into the kind of low and despicable rant-fests that
>> have characterised certain other Kenyan lists and blogs.
>>
>>
>>
>> I hereby request a public apology to KIF on this list, from Alex,
>> by Tuesday, failing which I will suspend his (and any other member
>> who persists in mudslinging) list membership for one month.
>>
>>
>>
>> I once again humbly appeal to all members of this list to desist
>> from the kind of myopic, vindictive banter that we have recently
>> witnessed. We must work *together* for a better Kenya, and this
>> will not come through tomfoolery and irresponsible words/actions.
>>
>>
>>
>> Sincerely
>>
>>
>>
>> Brian Munyao Longwe
>>
>> Chairman, KICTANET
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>>
>> On 11 Jul 2008, at 10:44 PM, "Marcel Werner"
>> <marcelcwerner at gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello Kictanet membership,
>>>
>>> The Kenya ICT Federation (KIF) is a reputable organization, duly
>>> registered and maintaining a proper governance system with a
>>> registered, paid-up membership base consisting of equally
>>> reputable ICT associations and companies.
>>>
>>> KIF has done a number of useful things over the period of its
>>> existence (see Kevit's posting, earlier this week).
>>>
>>> Recent postings on the Kictanet list appear to discredit our own
>>> organization KIF and its members with insinuations and slander.
>>> This is unacceptable.
>>>
>>> The Kictanet web-site shows KIF as a member of Kictanet (nr 8). We
>>> do not wish to be associated with an organization that lends
>>> itself to unhelpful campaigns by individuals, campaigns that can
>>> go on with impunity. There is no need at all to damage our and
>>> other's initiatives that are being implemented in the public
>>> interest (see again Kevit's posting) by informal networks with
>>> doubtful legitimacy. Please note that KIF has never signed any
>>> membership instrument with Kictanet, neither have we been charged
>>> nor have we paid for any membership fees. (page 9 of the Kenya ICT
>>> Action Network Competence Status Survey Assessment Report (posted
>>> on http://www.kictanet.or.ke/) highlights the membership problems
>>> of Kictanet. Personally I had highlighted this membership problem
>>> already a year ago in the interview that Kictanet held with us
>>> some time mid 2007 in the evaluation study of its role and
>>> performance – I have to conclude today that membership managemen
>>> t has never been addressed at Kictanet). We instruct Kictanet to
>>> remove KIF from its list of its appointed "Members".
>>>
>>> We look forward to be part of a Kictanet that has a legitimate
>>> constituency because there is need for a place of dialogue between
>>> civil society and private sector. Kictanet is not playing such a
>>> role today at all and creates a space for civil society to
>>> alienate itself from the private sector. Kictanet needs to clean
>>> up its house.
>>>
>>> We need serious dialogue, between all sectors in society, and we
>>> need to reach out internationally. We don't have time for any
>>> nonsense.
>>>
>>> Best regards, Marcel Werner, chairman of KIF :)
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2008/7/11 kevit desai <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com>:
>>>
>>> Alex,
>>> Kenya ICT Federation is a serious and well established organization,
>>> supported by its members who are also reputable and well established
>>> organizations.
>>> I confirm Centurion systems does not receive any money from KIF.
>>> Please
>>> verify the Business advocacy funds contributions and conditions
>>> since your
>>> information is false.
>>>
>>> It is not right to publish insinuations affecting KIF and its
>>> membership on
>>> a forum like Kictanet. Especially, since I have extended an
>>> invitation to
>>> meet so that I can give further explanations. I am waiting to
>>> gauge the
>>> interest in this invitation.
>>>
>>> For now I close my participation.
>>>
>>> Kevit Desai
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Gakuru , Alex [mailto:alexgakuru.lists at gmail.com]
>>> Sent: 11 July 2008 17:24
>>>
>>> To: kevit desai
>>> Cc: kictanet-lists
>>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-Commerce
>>> in Kenya
>>>
>>> Kevit;
>>>
>>> KIF recently received Kshs 3.5 grant million from a certain
>>> business fund.
>>> I am curious centurion system hosts them under their CSR?
>>>
>>> Public forum to explain all dealings openly and transparently?.
>>>
>>> regards,
>>>
>>> On 7/11/08, kevit desai <kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Dear Sylvester,
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Thank you for all the interest shown. Some of you would like
>>> further
>>> > information on the following activities:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Historical & present- Impact
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > - Ministerial stakeholder forum (regular sectoral
>>> discussions
>>> > private sector - Government, with KEPSA)
>>> >
>>> > - Power up with ICT nation - wide awareness campaigns
>>> (2004,
>>> 2005,
>>> > 2006)
>>> >
>>> > - E-Government - municipal councils
>>> >
>>> > - Open source software community
>>> >
>>> > - E-commerce legislation
>>> >
>>> > - Engineering student exhibition - 1997 - 2008
>>> >
>>> > - ICT Bills (2006 - 2008)
>>> >
>>> > - Creation of INFOCOM Ministry (2003)
>>> >
>>> > - National ICT Policy formulation (2004 - 2006)
>>> >
>>> > - Tax reforms 2006, 2007, 2008
>>> >
>>> > - National innovation system
>>> >
>>> > - University Education Reforms Task Force (2006 -
>>> current)
>>> >
>>> > - PSDS
>>> >
>>> > - Africon 2009
>>> >
>>> > - Public panels with Kenya ICT Board
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Associations:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > - KEPSA
>>> >
>>> > - KIF
>>> >
>>> > - IEEE
>>> >
>>> > - Kenya software industry association
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Please confirm your interest in a meeting. This will allow me to
>>> gauge
>>> level
>>> > of participation so as to plan the venue and also mobilize the
>>> relevant
>>> > leaders. If you are not on board, it would be great to have you
>>> on board.
>>> We
>>> > need your support
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Kevit Desai
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Director of Engineering - Centurion Systems
>>> >
>>> > Chairperson IEEE - Kenya Section
>>> >
>>> > Chairman - Engineering students exhibition
>>> >
>>> > Governor - KEPSA
>>> >
>>> > Director - KEPSA
>>> >
>>> > Director - Innovation Africa
>>> >
>>> > Director- Kenya ICT Board
>>> >
>>> > Vice Chairman - Kenya ICT Federation
>>> >
>>> > BOA - AIESEC
>>> >
>>> > Member - National Strategy for University Education
>>> >
>>> > Co-ordinator - Growing Sustainable Business(GSB)-UNDP Kenya
>>> >
>>> > General Co-Chair - Africon 2009
>>> >
>>> > 2nd Fl, New Rehema Hse, Raphta Rd, Westlands -Nairobi
>>> >
>>> > P.O. BOX 66031 - 00800 Nrb.
>>> >
>>> > Tel:+254 20 4440102/3 Fax: +254 20 4440104 CDMA: 020 2049750
>>> >
>>> > Mobile: +254 722 517067
>>> >
>>> > http://www.centurionsystemsltd.com
>>> >
>>> > http://www.ieee.org
>>> >
>>> > http://www.engineeringexhibition.co.ke
>>> >
>>> > http://www.innovation-africa.net
>>> >
>>> > http://www.kepsa.or.ke
>>> >
>>> > http://www.powerup.co.ke
>>> >
>>> > http://www.aiesec.org
>>> >
>>> > http://www.africon2007.co.za
>>> >
>>> > http://www.kif.or.ke
>>> >
>>> > www.ict.go.ke
>>> >
>>> > http://www.globalcompact.org
>>> >
>>> > http://www.undp.org/business/gsb
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > ________________________________
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From:
>>> > kictanet-bounces
>>> +kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> >
>>> [mailto:kictanet-bounces+kevit=centurionsystemsltd.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> ]
>>> > On Behalf Of Brian Longwe
>>> > Sent: 10 July 2008 18:57
>>> > To: kevit at centurionsystemsltd.com
>>> >
>>> > Cc: kictanet-lists
>>> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-
>>> Commerce in
>>> Kenya
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Hi Sylvester,
>>> >
>>> > Thank you so very much for highlighting yet another way in
>>> which KICTANET
>>> > is beneficial to the communicat at large. through KICTANET we
>>> all learn so
>>> > many good things that are happening in/around - and can then
>>> make our own
>>> > decisions as to whether to follow up/engage.
>>> >
>>> > Regards,
>>> >
>>> > Brian
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Thu, Jul 10, 2008 at 10:17 AM, Sylvester Kisonzo
>>> > <skisonzo at securenet.co.ke> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > And where can I read (or get information) about all these new
>>> names to me?
>>> > KEPSA, KIF, etc? Until recently when I joined this group, I had
>>> never
>>> heard
>>> > of them. So I wonder how all the 'stakeholders' have all along
>>> been
>>> > involved.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > SK
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > From:
>>> > kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>> > [mailto:kictanet-bounces+skisonzo=gmail.com at lists.kictanet.or.ke]
>>> > On Behalf Of Joseph Manthi
>>> > Sent: 09 July 2008 20:47
>>> > To: skisonzo at gmail.com
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Cc: kictanet-lists
>>> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] Legislation and Regulation for e-
>>> Commerce in
>>> Kenya
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Waudo:
>>> > I would like to pose a simple question:
>>> >
>>> > Why are these associations needed?
>>> >
>>> > Joe
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, Jul 9, 2008 at 1:22 PM, waudo siganga <emailsignet at mailcan.com
>>> >
>>> > wrote:
>>> >
>>> > Brian - DFID set up KEPSA in 2001 to unite the private sector
>>> voice. The
>>> > idea was to bring together EXISTING associations. Someone got
>>> early wind
>>> > that ICT was one of the identified sectors and decided to
>>> register a NEW
>>> > association ostensibly as an umbrella body. The real umbrella
>>> body was
>>> > actually supposed to be KEPSA, under its ICT Board. Period. Why
>>> did
>>> > someone find a pressing need to form a NEW association???
>>> >
>>> > Anyway right now that is history and KEPSA ICT Board is on the
>>> right
>>> > track with all associations on board. We have to struggle to
>>> make sure
>>> > it stays that way. I do not understand why you seem to be
>>> insisting on
>>> > someone visiting KIF. What is the value addition? What can one
>>> discover
>>> > there??? Some say there are personal companies underneath and
>>> KIF is the
>>> > front but I do not wish to walk in that mud. My interest is
>>> KEPSA ICT
>>> > Board not being equated with KIF.
>>> > Waudo
>>> >
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 19:31:54 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe"
>>> > <blongwe at gmail.com> said:
>>> > > Actually if my memory serves me right. KIF is KEPSAs "child"
>>> i.e when
>>> > > KEPSA decided to have sector clusters KIF was established
>>> *by* KEpsa
>>> > > to act as the umbrella for ICT private sector.
>>> > >
>>> > > But I stand to be corrected if I'm getting my facts wrong.
>>> But if I am
>>> > > right then it *is* important for any critics to understand
>>> the inner
>>> > > workings by visiting.
>>> > >
>>> > > I am urging action instead of just talk.
>>> > >
>>> > > Brian
>>> > >
>>> > > Sent from my iPhone
>>> > >
>>> > > On 09 Jul 2008, at 6:39 PM, "waudo siganga" <emailsignet at mailcan.com
>>> >
>>> > > wrote:
>>> > >
>>> > > > Hi Brian - I do not think that the issue is an interest in
>>> the
>>> > > > internal
>>> > > > operations of KIF. We are talking governance in the context
>>> of KEPSA/
>>> > > > KIF
>>> > > > relationship, something also of interest to the consumer
>>> community.
>>> > > > For
>>> > > > your information last year all stakeholders held a meeting
>>> in KEPSA
>>> > > > and
>>> > > > decided to open membership to all interested Private Sector
>>> > > > associations. This was after it was observed that the
>>> hitherto
>>> > > > stranglehold on KEPSA by KIF meant that the sector was not
>>> adequately
>>> > > > represented. Some people may have felt unhappy or even
>>> insecure with
>>> > > > this development. The problem is that my friend Kevit,
>>> being the
>>> KEPSA
>>> > > > ICT director uses his position to constantly market KIF as
>>> if it is a
>>> > > > favoured player in KEPSA (e.g. "I would like to confirm
>>> that the
>>> > > > KEPSA/KIF relationship is vibrant." - as if implying the
>>> other
>>> > > > associations are dead) He is often busy promoting "KIF
>>> Positions"
>>> > > > instead of "KEPSA Positions" including using KIF
>>> letterheads at the
>>> > > > MSFs. I have misgivings about the current ICT leadership in
>>> KEPSA
>>> > > > but I
>>> > > > am hopeful things will change.
>>> > > >
>>> > > > Waudo
>>> > > >
>>> > > > On Wed, 9 Jul 2008 16:54:41 +0300, "Brian Munyao Longwe"
>>> > > > <blongwe at gmail.com> said:
>>> > > >> Hi Alex,
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> I would find it hard to imagine how much more Kevit can
>>> explain to
>>> > > >> you
>>> > > >> about KIF.
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> I would like to suggest that Kevit extend an invitation to
>>> you (and
>>> > > >> anyone else who might be interested/concerned) to attend
>>> the next
>>> KIF
>>> > > >> meeting as an observer and see/feel the animal yourself.
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> Brian
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> Sent from my iPhone
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >> On 09 Jul 2008, at 3:45 PM, Alex Gakuru <alex.gakuru at yahoo.com
>>> >
>>> > > >> wrote:
>>> > > >>
>>> > > >>> Kevit:
>>> > > >>>
>>> > > >>> I am afraid you have not clarified well enough. I shall
>>> not ask you
>>> > > >>> further KEPSA questions although on your previous email
>>> you told
>>> > > >>> Waundo "As the director of KEPSA I welcome CSK and any
>>> other
>>> > > >>> association to full membership of KEPSA." Apparently this
>>> now
>>> > > >>> appears to have changed. And I doubt Waundo complained of
>>> > > >>> "exclusion" not of his private self, rather of CSK? I
>>> could be
>>> wrong
>>> > > >>> but he could clarify.
>>> > > >>>
>>> > > >>> On Jun 23, 2008 it was announced that a "Local Software
>>> Industry
>>> > > >>> Association established" with, among others, "3.1
>>> Objective, Market
>>> > > >>> the local software industry to venture capitalists." (see
>>> > > >>> announcement document attached) Was it registered under
>>> Societies
>>> > > >>> Act
>>> > > >>> ( Read Public interest) or as Private (non-or-for-profit)
>>> Company?
>>> I
>>> > > >>> found it strange it was formed 3 days to aour very
>>> successful and
>>> > > >>> OPEN BarCamp. Is this one also under your umbrella?
>>> > > >>>
>>> > > >>> On the links you sent onlist:
>>> > > >>>
>>> > > >>> www.innovation-africa.net
>>> > > >>>
>>> > > >>> Domain Name: INNOVATION-AFRICA.NET
>>> > > >>> Registrar: TUCOWS INC.
>>> > > >>> Whois Server: whois.tucows.com
>>> > > >>> Referral URL: http://domainhelp.opensrs.net
>>> > > >>> Name Server: ULTRA103.UK2.NET
>>> > > >>> Name Server: ULTRA104.UK2.NET
>>> > > >>> Status: redemptionPeriod
>>> > > >>> Updated Date: 24-jun-2008
>>> > > >>> Creation Date: 14-may-2007
>>> > > >>> Expiration Date: 14-may-2008
>>> > > >>>
>>> > > >>> I tried www.innovation-africa.co.ke >> was re-directing
>>> to >>
>>> > www.kif.or.ke
>>> > > >>> ( but today it now says "under construction") I gather
>>> Centurion
>>> > > >>> Systems offices accommodates KIF, is that correct?
>>> > > >>>
>>> > > >>> What I am trying is to understand is who s
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>>
>> This message was sent to: blongwe at gmail.com
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