[kictanet] [ke-internetusers] Kenyacommunications(amendment)Bill: Is media overacting?

[Gakuru Alex]

Hi Gilda,


On Wed, Dec 17, 2008 at 8:49 AM, Gilda Odera <godera at skyweb.co.ke> wrote:

>  My greatest concern is that in all this back and forth accusations, the
> baby will well be thrown with the water.
>
 ...

Given that the ICT industry is in dire need of the electronic transaction
> and data protection legal frameworks, amongst many other things in
> the proposed bill, why can't the contentious media issues be removed for
> further discussion so that other things can continue? The ICT industry has
> waited too long for this Bill. It was lumped with the media acts and now
> there is too much at stake. Is it too much to ask the Government to remove
> the contentious media issues from the Bill so the industry does not lose
> more time on this?How will those thousands of jobs be created if there is no
> agreement on the Bill. And how will media operate if the Bill is passed with
> such contentious issues?
>

I feel you.



> Can government meet industry players halfway by removing the contentious
> issues and letting the Bill be assented to without these issues so both
> industries do not suffer and delays please. It has to be a give and take.
>

>From other discussants contributions, it appears that if the (Executive arm
of) government did this it'd be flouting due legislative process. i.e.
breaking the law. I stand to be corrected.

Happy Holidays



>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> *From:* Mike Theuri <mike.theuri at gmail.com>
> *To:* Gilda Odera <godera at skyweb.co.ke>
> *Cc:* KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
> *Sent:* Tuesday, December 16, 2008 12:47 PM
> *Subject:* Re: [kictanet] [ke-internetusers]
> Kenyacommunications(amendment)Bill: Is media overacting?
>
> Brian,
>
> I hope that the media and other interested parties have taken a cue from
> the recent happenings and will now take time to study and understand the
> bill. Hopefully the media's petition via the PM was concrete and included
> alternative workable proposals. If it did not, the President and anyone else
> involved in taking appropriate action will not have much to work with.
>
> I agree that K24 should be commended for demonstrating professionalism and
> leadership. A debate cannot be productive if opposite sides do not engage
> freely and openly, neither can it be helpful if either party is not fully
> informed so as to understand where the other side is coming from. For this
> reason the media would do well to understand the bill not for the famous
> clause but for its provisions and work from that standpoint.
>
> It can also be hoped that all involved will take away valuable lessons on
> the need to be proactive in the legislative process.
>
> On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 1:33 AM, Brian Longwe <blongwe at gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mike,
>>
>> I could not agree with you more. What we are witnessing is rabid calls for
>> deletion of a legal clause that has been in existence since 1998, and isn't
>> even part of the proposed amendments - without a proposed alternative.
>>
>> It is abundantly clear that neither the media practitioners, neither the
>> civil society pundits or politicos that are baying in the streets have
>> really taken time to read through any of this legislation, nor consider
>> suitable alternatives.
>>
>> I personally think that this episode will serve as a lesson for many -
>> knee-jerk, reactionary statements that are based on speculation and
>> hyperbole can only lead to confusion and eventually embarassment.
>>
>> I give a thumbs up to the likes of K24 who have taken a very neutral stand
>> and chosen to air both sides of the story and work more towards
>> enlightenment than further fuel the outright lies and misrepresentation that
>> our airwaves have been awash with over the past few days.
>>
>> Brian
>>
>>   On Tue, Dec 16, 2008 at 10:06 AM, Mike Theuri <mike.theuri at gmail.com>wrote:
>>
>>>   Crystal,
>>>
>>> Actually, the right to assemble, discuss in public and protest was never
>>> taken away by the Patriot act. Numerous protests and marches have taken
>>> place over the Iraq war, Immigration etc since then and have been
>>> widely covered. Indeed if one was pay a visit to the environs of the White
>>> house, one will find no shortage of protesters demonstrating any number of
>>> issues from Guantanamo by dressing in orange jump suits and locking
>>> themselves in cages, Darfur,  Tibetans acting out torture methods, to
>>> calling the current US administration fascist or for its removal as long as
>>> they do not interfere with others freedoms by being disruptive. The
>>> Patriot Act still stands to date, however a few of its provisions
>>> have sunset and are no longer in law thanks to a refined legislative process
>>> that pays attention to constituents views.
>>>
>>> The separation of powers principle is best exemplified in the US. The
>>> Judiciary's independence is one that should be emulated in Kenya. The fact
>>> that unconstitutional laws can be challenged and struck down by the courts
>>> is itself a protection against the infringement of citizen and non-citizens
>>> rights. Take for instance cases such as that of Bin Laden's driver (Hamdan
>>> v. Rumsfeld) or the 5 Algerian Guantanamo detainees where the US
>>> Government did not win in both cases. The fact that members of congress have
>>> signaled their intent to restore habeus corpus rights to detainees is in
>>> itself an indication of standing up for principle even when popular opinion
>>> may not agree with some principles of basic human rights. There is a lot of
>>> work and reform to be done locally, in ensuring that the different arms of
>>> Government can be as independent and those who are aggrieved by the
>>> legislature at least have an avenue of resort in which they can place their
>>> confidence to fairly strike down what could be considered unconstitutional.
>>>
>>> At the same time excessive freedom and its abuse is dangerous, were Kenya
>>> the US, elements of the media who engaged in deliberate acts at the
>>> beginning of the year would be in court today being held civilly liable for
>>> their role in inciting violence that led to the deaths of civilians. Media
>>> elements that act recklessly and carry inappropriate content would be paying
>>> hefty fines that could easily bankrupt them if they chose not change their
>>> ways. Yet we find that even with such regulations, the US media has a level
>>> of freedom that is not quite paralleled around the world. I believe it is
>>> clear that the contentious section 88 has always been present, it is not
>>> new, and thus the Government cannot possibly be trying to now use it to
>>> suppress the people's voices. As with every system there need to be checks
>>> and balances, the media has called for deletion, an approach that faces
>>> legal hurdles, but the media has not been seen to come up with clear cut
>>> alternatives such as amendments that could make it very difficult if not
>>> impossible for section 88 to be abused, these are the checks the media could
>>> be lobbying for placement in the memorandum. The media fraternity might not
>>> be law makers but they could certainly spend amounts such as the Ksh. 2m
>>> spent on advertising a prayer meeting to explain in layman terms what
>>> *alternatives* as protections they want to be included in the bill. One way
>>> or another there will be laws that deal with the media, a reality the media
>>> should accept and work towards defining rather than wishing the inevitable
>>> goes away.
>>>
>>>   On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 11:23 AM, Crystal Watley <
>>> crystal at voicesofafrica.org> wrote:
>>>
>>>>  The Patriot Act was established in the United States in light of
>>>> terrorist activities and the Iraqi war to silence any public discussion or
>>>> protest. The US government was able to make a list of organizations and
>>>> people they considered to be "terrorists" and to use a variety of means
>>>> powers to contain those they believed to be "dangerous to US interests".
>>>> This Act was used to arrest many peaceful protesters, environmental
>>>> activists, and to detain Muslims without trial for extended period of time
>>>> at places like Guantanamo Bay. Every democratic government must respect
>>>> human rights. The Patriot Act was a time bound piece of legislature and it
>>>> has thus lapsed. Democratic governments should not attempt to use
>>>> legislation to suppress the voice of the people. Kenya is not the only
>>>> country where a minority of the population with vested interests have
>>>> attempted and have often succeeded to dominate and control the population.
>>>> We should learn from the lessons of history, rather than repeat the same
>>>> mistakes.
>>>>
>>>> Crystal
>>>>
>>>>   On Mon, Dec 15, 2008 at 7:35 PM, <bitange at jambo.co.ke> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>  David,
>>>>> I thought this UK law would make our section 88 look like an evening
>>>>> game
>>>>> of soccer.  From the Independent.
>>>>>
>>>>> 23 November 2003
>>>>>
>>>>> Sweeping measures to deal with terrorist attacks and other emergencies
>>>>> are
>>>>> to be announced this week, giving the Government power to over-ride
>>>>> civil
>>>>> liberties in times of crisis, and evacuate threatened areas, restrict
>>>>> people's movements and confiscate property.
>>>>>
>>>>> The Civil Contingencies Bill, which covers every kind of disaster from
>>>>> terrorism to the weather, will be the biggest shake-up of emergency
>>>>> laws
>>>>> since the early part of the last century, replacing legislation which
>>>>> saw
>>>>> the UK through a world war and the IRA bombing campaign.
>>>>>
>>>>> Some of the proposals in the draft version of the Bill, drawn up in the
>>>>> summer, have alarmed civil rights activists, notably a clause that
>>>>> gives
>>>>> the Government the power to suspend parts or all of the Human Rights
>>>>> Act
>>>>> without a vote by MPs.
>>>>>
>>>>> Once an emergency has been proclaimed by the Queen, the Government can
>>>>> order the destruction of property, order people to evacuate an area or
>>>>> ban
>>>>> them from travelling, and "prohibit assemblies of specified kinds" and
>>>>> "other specified activities".
>>>>>
>>>>> If these rules had been in force during the Iraq war, critics say, they
>>>>> could have been used to to ban street demonstrations, making anyone who
>>>>> travelled to protest guilty of a criminal offence. After a major
>>>>> terrorist
>>>>> attack, forums made up of local councils, the emergency services and
>>>>> utility companies would be put in charge of trying to get shattered
>>>>> communities back together.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Ndemo.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> > Ok. Thanks.
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Sent from my BlackBerry(R) wireless device
>>>>> >
>>>>> > -----Original Message-----
>>>>> > From: bitange at jambo.co.ke
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Date: Mon, 15 Dec 2008 19:12:04
>>>>> > To: <dmakali at yahoo.com>
>>>>> > Cc: <bitange at jambo.co.ke>; KICTAnet ICT Policy
>>>>> > Discussions<kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>>> > Subject: Re: [kictanet] [ke-internetusers] Kenya
>>>>> >      communications(amendment)Bill: Is media overacting?
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > David,
>>>>> > There was a hitch.  It will be in all papers tomorrow and will ensure
>>>>> you
>>>>> > get the soft copy.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> > Ndemo.
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> I have treid to find the amended bill online with no success; was it
>>>>> >> uploaded as promised? someone please?
>>>>> >> david
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> _______________
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> "If my doctor told me I had only six minutes to live,
>>>>> >> I wouldn't brood. I'd type a little faster."
>>>>> >> â€" Isaac Asimo, Columbian Author and Scientist
>>>>> >> _______________
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> PO Box 3234
>>>>> >> 00200 Nairobi, Kenya
>>>>> >> cell: +254 722 517 540
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >> --- On Mon, 12/15/08, bitange at jambo.co.ke <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> >>
>>>>> >>> From: bitange at jambo.co.ke <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>>>>> >>> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [ke-internetusers] Kenya
>>>>> >>> communications(amendment)Bill: Is media overacting?
>>>>> >>> To: dmakali at yahoo.com
>>>>> >>> Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>>> >>> Date: Monday, December 15, 2008, 1:04 AM
>>>>> >>> Mike,
>>>>> >>> Thank you for your objective views.  You know very well
>>>>> >>> that there are
>>>>> >>> thousands of youth out there who have patiently waited for
>>>>> >>> this bill to
>>>>> >>> allow them trade on-line.  Now Media calls theirs.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> The outcomes of the Kriegler and Waki would hopefully deal
>>>>> >>> with political
>>>>> >>> impunity.  Who will deal with media impunity?  In my view
>>>>> >>> we must push
>>>>> >>> this Bill to ensure that electronic media does not continue
>>>>> >>> to corrupt our
>>>>> >>> children's minds.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> Ndemo.
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>>
>>>>> >>> > Dr. Ndemo,
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > I hope that the media note that they are on the wrong
>>>>> >>> path and move to
>>>>> >>> > change their approach. In hindsight they might realize
>>>>> >>> that the issues at
>>>>> >>> > hand could have been tackled differently.The
>>>>> >>> media's most recent actions
>>>>> >>> > only make it more difficult to resolve the very same
>>>>> >>> issues they are
>>>>> >>> > protesting.
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > The Nation's editorial perhaps represents the
>>>>> >>> divergence in views between
>>>>> >>> > the media owners, their supporters and responsible
>>>>> >>> journalists who may
>>>>> >>> > have
>>>>> >>> > seen that things are steering in a dangerous
>>>>> >>> direction. As the matter
>>>>> >>> > drags
>>>>> >>> > on, various elements will try to take advantage and
>>>>> >>> jump onto the
>>>>> >>> > bandwagon
>>>>> >>> > to further certain agendas. It is this catalyst that
>>>>> >>> is worrisome, as
>>>>> >>> > there
>>>>> >>> > is the possibility that just as the media issue has
>>>>> >>> somehow been tied to
>>>>> >>> > economic issues, the media issue could easily be
>>>>> >>> misused by those who have
>>>>> >>> > little to do with the media.
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > The country has many volatile problems that should not
>>>>> >>> be exploited, some
>>>>> >>> > of
>>>>> >>> > those jumping onto the media bandwagon may be seeking
>>>>> >>> to detract from
>>>>> >>> > matters facing them, others have personal agendas in
>>>>> >>> mind that can only
>>>>> >>> > progress if they are disguised as media and economic
>>>>> >>> issues. The media
>>>>> >>> > hopefully is looking at these issues in a responsible
>>>>> >>> manner, will
>>>>> >>> > exercise
>>>>> >>> > diplomacy and engage the Government in a civil way as
>>>>> >>> the best way to
>>>>> >>> > resolve the impasse. There are many Kenyans suffering
>>>>> >>> today from matters
>>>>> >>> > not
>>>>> >>> > within their control, it is a dangerous thing for the
>>>>> >>> media to act in a
>>>>> >>> > way
>>>>> >>> > that could easily stir these masses to non-civil
>>>>> >>> action as measures are
>>>>> >>> > being taken to alleviate these problems. The media has
>>>>> >>> a corporate
>>>>> >>> > responsibility in ensuring that it exhausts all civil
>>>>> >>> means of ensuring
>>>>> >>> > the
>>>>> >>> > matters are resolved.
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > It is encouraging to know that the Government is open
>>>>> >>> for discussion, but
>>>>> >>> > there is only so much that the Government can do on
>>>>> >>> legislative matters.
>>>>> >>> > The
>>>>> >>> > Government can draft, prepare and adjust laws but it
>>>>> >>> cannot pass the same
>>>>> >>> > in
>>>>> >>> > parliament. The media must do more on its own in
>>>>> >>> approaching not just key
>>>>> >>> > leaders but ultimately the legislators who actually
>>>>> >>> vote to pass the same
>>>>> >>> > laws.
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> > On Sun, Dec 14, 2008 at 5:11 PM,
>>>>> >>> <bitange at jambo.co.ke> wrote:
>>>>> >>> >
>>>>> >>> >> Thanks Theuri,
>>>>> >>> >> Since Government is open for discussion, diplomacy
>>>>> >>> would yield better
>>>>> >>> >> results.  I have seen their action plan which by
>>>>> >>> the way violates cck
>>>>> >>> >> licence agreement it is not the best rout to take.
>>>>> >>>  Having spent all
>>>>> >>> >> weekend
>>>>> >>> >> using public resources (frequencies) to propagate
>>>>> >>> violence, they should
>>>>> >>> >> at
>>>>> >>> >> least wait to hear from cck.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> If you read today's Nation editorial on how to
>>>>> >>> end impunity including
>>>>> >>> >> media
>>>>> >>> >> impunity you wonder if they are the same people
>>>>> >>> inciting the public to
>>>>> >>> >> violence.
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> Ndemo
>>>>> >>> >> Sent from my BlackBerry(R)
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> >>> >> From: "Mike Theuri"
>>>>> >>> <mike.theuri at gmail.com>
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> Date: Sun, 14 Dec 2008 13:19:01
>>>>> >>> >> To: <bitange at jambo.co.ke>
>>>>> >>> >> Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy
>>>>> >>> Discussions<kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke>
>>>>> >>> >> Subject: Re: [kictanet] [ke-internetusers] Kenya
>>>>> >>> communications
>>>>> >>> >>        (amendment)Bill: Is media overacting?
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> _______________________________________________
>>>>> >>> >> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> >>> >> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >> This message was sent to: bitange at jambo.co.ke
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>>>>> >>>
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>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >>
>>>>> >>> >
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>>>>> >>>
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>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>>
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>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Crystal "Naliaka" Watley
>>>> Voices of Africa
>>>> crystal at voicesofafrica.org
>>>> http://www.voicesofafrica.org/
>>>>
>>>> "You must be the change you wish to see" - Gandhi
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> kictanet mailing list
>>>> kictanet at lists.kictanet.or.ke
>>>> http://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet
>>>>
>>>> This message was sent to: mike.theuri at gmail.com
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>
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>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Brian Munyao Longwe
>> e-mail: blongwe at gmail.com
>> cell:  + 254 722 518 744
>> blog : http://zinjlog.blogspot.com
>> meta-blog: http://mashilingi.blogspot.com
>>
>
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