<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Hello Rosemary,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">I will close off my submissions for the day by responding to your kind remarks.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">For my part I want a mechanism that will help my skills and experience be recognizable in a manner that removes the restrictions that are currently in place for me to engage in any significant work with the government and any corporation that dictates that the only relevant document to prove my proficiency is a University degree.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">As for those who perpetrate mischief., it is difficult if not impossible to improve the capacity of our courts to be able to handle the possible thousands of hi-tech related crime. Experts would always have to be brought it and those cases would take months if not years to go through the system.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">This institute would offer a faster means of mediation. If there is any mischief or delay by this body, then those particular appeals would certainly be acceptable to the Judiciary. Or you can still bypass them and go to the courts. They are supreme.</div><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:small;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Regards,</div><div style="font-size:small;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div style="font-size:small;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Kevin</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 18 December 2017 at 18:52, Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu via kictanet <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Dear Listers, <div><br></div><div>The rationale for the proposed law in my opinion fails both legal and practical tests and I will pick up from where my learned colleague Gertrude left off, </div><div><br></div><div>1. There is no serious mischief that can be clearly identified and the reasons given so far are adequately catered for by exiting laws and proposed laws like the Computer and Cybercrimes Bill of 2017. The cure to the mischief contemplated requires the basic understanding tha crime and other social conflicts have not changed but simply moved to tech platforms:- </div><div><br></div><div>If one fails to deliver on a contract ,the courts are an open avenue to solve the dispute maybe what we need is improved capacity for the bar and the bench to handle the tech matters, fraud is fraud whether perpetrated on paper or a computer, theft is still theft whether physical or virtual stealing. </div><div><br></div><div>2. In regards to who is best suited to cure the above mischief, I have explained above that we just need improve the capacity of all stakeholders right from law enforcement to every other professional interacting with ICT systems and as a result of the diversity of ICT is impractical to purport to create an entity that will handle this, tech is multidisciplinary as Tim has explained so the proposed approach makes no sense.</div><div><br></div><div>3. The proposed cure will definitely create a myriad of mischiefs and the most obvious is stifling innovation and blocking the indipendent development of talent, the world's leading tech gurus are self taught.</div><div><br></div><div>4. It is without a doubt that this proposed cure will have more detrimental side effects than the mischief we intend to cure. </div><div><br></div><div>5. Let's build the capacity of all the available institutions as ICT is constantly morphing there is no need to create entities that may be rendered redundant in the blink of an eye.</div><div><br></div><div>Kind regards, </div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="gmail-h5">On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 6:20 PM, Timothy- Coach- Oriedo via kictanet <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><wbr>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="gmail-h5"><div dir="auto">Thank you Ngigi for breaking it down so realistically.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">As a Data Scientist i was dumbfounded on the call to regulate ICT practioneers coz its even more complex Data Science where the profession entry point is multi faceted ranging from liberal arts like Anthropologists, Evolutionary Psychologists, Philosophers, Mathematics to Tech like Developers, Network and software engineers etcetra....</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">The value of a technology is realised at the confluence of its usage. Hence the most lasting, impacful technology careers will be those that shape the application of technology to the last mile consumption of it... any attempt to regulate it will be rendered irrelevant by consumers of the technology who reward for mediocrity and superiority as they deem fit.</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Regards</div><div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Tim </div><div dir="auto"><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="gmail-m_-8575044195346532208h5">On 18 Dec 2017 18:00, "Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet" <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><wbr>> wrote:<br type="attribution"></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="gmail-m_-8575044195346532208h5"><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>My take,<br><br></div>Some things are just ridiculous..<br><br></div>You have a HR Administrator, A Programmer, Office Administrator, an IP Lawyer, a sweeper, a Cyber Security expert all five working for:<br></div>a)A banks IT department<br></div>b) An insurance firms IT department<br></div>c) A manufacturing firm IT department<br></div>d) An IT consulting business<br></div>e)A software engineering firm<br><br></div>Give me one set of laws regulating them?<br><br></div>You regulate individuals in *professions* not in an industry. Thats why in a bank, the HR Administrator gets regulated by HR association etc, Lawyer gets regulated by ISK, the Programmer (based on whatever courses he's taken and/or experience etc) by their respective bodies and/or experience etc<br><br></div>In an industry, you regulate final products and/or final services delivered! <br><br></div>Now, what are some of the professions we have in the software industry?<br></div>1. Programmers / developers<br></div>2. System Administrators<br></div>3. Database Administrators<br></div>4. Enterprise Architects<br></div>5. UX Designers<br><br><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><div>Now, try making a common regulation for those 5 out of a possible hundreds...</div><div><br></div><div>Finally, for those us in software, you will agree its more art at some point than science, so how do you regulate art? <br></div><div><br></div><div>Do you tell Picasso he can't paint because he wasn't certified as an painter? Do you tell Franco he can't sing because he wasn't certified as a singer? Do you tell a young Bill Gates he can't write software because he wasn't certified in computer science?</div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div><div><div>Regards<br></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Watila Alex via kictanet <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><wbr>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><pre style="white-space:pre-wrap;font-family:inherit;margin:0px" id="gmail-m_-8575044195346532208m_-1294073501125671672m_857694598975976311m_4489591660655368531yMail_cursorElementTracker_1512309401527">EricKigada: Kenya’s controversial ICT Practitioners Bill 2016 to be tabled in parliament again
<a href="http://techmoran.com/kenyas-controv" target="_blank">techmoran.com/kenyas-controv</a>…
<a id="gmail-m_-8575044195346532208m_-1294073501125671672m_857694598975976311m_4489591660655368531linkAnchor_1512309375126" class="gmail-m_-8575044195346532208m_-1294073501125671672m_857694598975976311m_4489591660655368531linkEnhancr_shared_link" href="https://twitter.com/EricKigada/status/937309893954031616" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/EricKigada<wbr>/status/937309893954031616</a></pre><br><div id="gmail-m_-8575044195346532208m_-1294073501125671672m_857694598975976311m_4489591660655368531ymail_android_signature"><a href="https://overview.mail.yahoo.com/mobile/?.src=Android" id="gmail-m_-8575044195346532208m_-1294073501125671672m_857694598975976311m_4489591660655368531yMail_cursorElementTracker_1512309400763" target="_blank">Sent from Yahoo Mail on Android</a></div><br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
kictanet mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m<wbr>ailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/kictanet</a><br>
Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/KICTA<wbr>Net/</a><br>
<br>
Unsubscribe or change your options at <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%40at.co.ke" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m<wbr>ailman/options/kictanet/ngigi%<wbr>40at.co.ke</a><br>
<br>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
<br>
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail-m_-8575044195346532208m_-1294073501125671672m_857694598975976311gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div style="border-collapse:collapse;color:rgb(136,136,136);font-family:"Droid Sans",arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div><font face="Calibri"><font size="2"><b>Regards,</b></font></font></div><div><br></div><div><font face="Calibri"><font size="2"><b>Wait</b></font></font><b style="font-size:small;font-family:Calibri">haka Ngigi</b></div></div><div><div><font face="Calibri"><font size="2"><font face="'Droid Sans', arial, sans-serif" color="#888888"><span style="border-collapse:collapse">Chief </span></font><font color="#888888"><span style="border-collapse:collapse">Executive</span></font><font face="'Droid Sans', arial, sans-serif" color="#888888"><span style="border-collapse:collapse"> Officer | </span></font><font style="border-collapse:collapse;font-family:"Droid Sans",arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px" color="#FF6600">Alliance Technologies</font><font face="'Droid Sans', arial, sans-serif" color="#888888"><span style="border-collapse:collapse"> | MCK Nairobi Synod Building</span></font></font></font></div></div><div style="border-collapse:collapse;color:rgb(136,136,136);font-family:"Droid Sans",arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div><font face="Calibri"><font size="2"><span style="font-family:arial"><font face="Calibri"><font size="2">T +254 20 525 0750</font></font></span></font></font><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:14px"> </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:14px">|Office Mobile: +254 716 201061 </span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:14px"></span><span style="font-family:Calibri,sans-serif;font-size:13px;line-height:14px">| </span><span style="font-family:Calibri">M +254 737 811 000<a style="color:rgb(103,117,58)"><br></a></span></div></div><div style="border-collapse:collapse;color:rgb(136,136,136);font-family:"Droid Sans",arial,sans-serif;font-size:13px"><div><span style="font-family:Calibri"><a href="http://www.at.co.ke" target="_blank">www.at.co.ke</a></span></div><div></div></div></div></div></div>
</div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
kictanet mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m<wbr>ailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/kictanet</a><br>
Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/KICTA<wbr>Net/</a><br>
<br></div></div>
Unsubscribe or change your options at <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/timoriedo%40gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m<wbr>ailman/options/kictanet/timori<wbr>edo%40gmail.com</a><span><br>
<br>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
<br>
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
<br></span></blockquote></div></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
kictanet mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m<wbr>ailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/kictanet</a><br>
Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/KICTA<wbr>Net/</a><br>
<br></div></div>
Unsubscribe or change your options at <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/chemukoechk%40gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m<wbr>ailman/options/kictanet/chemuk<wbr>oechk%40gmail.com</a><span class="gmail-"><br>
<br>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
<br>
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
<br></span></blockquote></div><span class="gmail-HOEnZb"><font color="#888888"><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail-m_-8575044195346532208gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Rosemary Koech-Kimwatu<div>Advocate </div><div>Legal and Regulatory Specialist- Oxygene MCL</div><div>Tel: +254 718 181644</div><div><br></div><div><span style="font-size:12.8px"><br></span></div><div><br></div></div></div></div></div>
</font></span></div>
<br>______________________________<wbr>_________________<br>
kictanet mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/<wbr>mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
Twitter: <a href="http://twitter.com/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/kictanet</a><br>
Facebook: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/<wbr>KICTANet/</a><br>
<br>
Unsubscribe or change your options at <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kevin.kamonye%40gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/<wbr>mailman/options/kictanet/<wbr>kevin.kamonye%40gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
<br>
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br></div></div>