<div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-size:x-small"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">"Because
they are very sharp people who have taken the time to understand what
it takes to get things done, within the current environment. While the <i>ideal</i>
situation would be for them to lobby for the rest of us while we go
about our keyboard warrior campaigns, I would not hold it against them
if they served their own interests first"</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">Chief, <br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">If kids in their campus hostels and parent's basements are disrupting industries, don't you think ICT is one place where gatekeepers are not required? <br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">As AI, Blockchain etc are new things, who has proved themselves so much to deem themselves gatekeepers to determine if others can do it or not? <br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">ICT can't work as the law profession because here experience may be good in terms of compliance with market, business models, but certainly not with what someone creates. If my small sister, barely in her teenagehood creates an app, who would have the right to tell her that she ins't qualified to do so? If its an app on say, Blockchain or A.I, who would even have the expertise to tell her she can't? <br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)"><br></span></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><span style="color:rgb(0,0,0)">With all due respect, i believe gatekeepers stifle innovation, And if Bill Gates and Mark Zuckerberg, did not have to go through a gatekeeper no one else should have to, </span><br></div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 3:28 PM, Kevin Kamonye via kictanet <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Hello Collins,</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">I will direct my response to the community(myself included) through your email, but I assure you that I hold no grudge to you or anyone else individually. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0b5394"><i>I do not even see what the problem here is, What is so hard in having a membership based organization (who's membership is open to all) regulating policy, where members then can openly discuss, define, and review</i><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);display:inline"><i>..</i>..</div></font></blockquote><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">This is the idealistic mentality that plagues this and every other geek association that was ever formed on the planet Earth. We think we know the easy path to solving every other problem.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0b5394"><i>Why should some people somewhere earn dollars to sit in expensive committees to come up with a classroom style definition of what an ICT professional is, and then spend even more money stopping people from exploiting their creativity. </i></font></blockquote><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Because they are very sharp people who have taken the time to understand what it takes to get things done, within the current environment. While the <i>ideal</i> situation would be for them to lobby for the rest of us while we go about our keyboard warrior campaigns, I would not hold it against them if they served their own interests first.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">I personally recall notifying this community as regards the peaceful awareness march some time last year about a colleague of mine who died in Ethiopia, and more so about the others that are still rotting in remand (not even jail), and how many of you showed up? </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">More importantly, having a unified framework that details how to seek opportunities and from where would have avoided many such unfortunate incidents.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></span><i><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0b5394">Bwana PS: </font><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0b5394"><br></font><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0b5394">I do not know what the motivations for this bill are, The only point of reference we have are the first one, I would still look at it suspiciously, especially the urgency with which it is being reintroduced, period! </font><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0b5394"><br></font><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0b5394">Why not present the gaps as they are and we just focus on filling the gaps. </font><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></span></i></blockquote><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">We have direct access to the CS. And he is not just any other guy but someone who has proven himself at all levels in the industry. And he is taking his time to engage with us and almost begging us to organise ourselves in such a manner that our opinions can be of some meaningful use to both the industry at large and to ourselves individually. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">The best that we can offer him is vague responses and maybe even some hostility.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Let me break this one down, because this is what we need to "accept" to understand. I say accept because I know we all have the capacity to do so but we are applying some kind of myopia so that we can continue to vent hot air from the cool shade of our comfort zones.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Mucheru has given us a very crucial pointer of the who is who to him as the holder of the office of CS ICT in the Republic of Kenya. KEPSA is the body that the three arms of the GoK would work with as the legitimate representatives of the private sector in Kenya.</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_default"><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">As important as </span><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif">ICT is to the present and future of +254, we are not any more special than the other sectors so as to warrant every other grouping within the industry a direct vote when it comes to public participation. It is therefore wise for us to be in very good books with KEPSA and especially with our <a href="https://kepsa.or.ke/sector-comittees/" target="_blank">current</a> reps. One thing I will point out is that it is important for us to take note that Mr. Macharia comes from the umbrella of KITOS and here is there <a href="http://kitos.or.ke/about-us/" target="_blank">vision</a>. The word c<i>atalyst</i> should sound very familiar to us so maybe we really really need to be nice to this man if we are to remain relevant as KICTAnet. </span></div></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">The way I see it, it was actually a good show of faith by KEPSA to accommodate KICTAnet into their submissions because they really didn't have and in any case there would have been no significant repercussions for them in ignoring this toothless [insert whatever you imagine we are].</div><div class="gmail_default"><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></span></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><i><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0b5394">The one thing that differentiated how Britain's Industrial revolution was by magnitudes far more successful than France, is that one had an open policy to innovation, anyone could be listened to and the default challenge was always "Prove it", In the other, Before you showed up before schooled men & women, you had to prove you are qualified to even set foot on stage. </font><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0b5394"><br></font><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" color="#0b5394">Names like John Kay, Richard Arkwright, James Watt and Stephenson would not exist today, in a worldview that seeks to strangle innovation. </font><span style="color:rgb(11,83,148);font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif"></span></i></blockquote><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">This is a very good insight. To this I will respond as follows. </div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">The people who hold sway in our economy and therefore policy are people who got there by being cautious to things they do not understand. I think this is where the issue both is and also therein lies our opportunity to get the change we want. For instance, many of you here might be the IT person of someone who would never listen to anyone else about anything to do with "computer" without consulting with you. I don't think I will need to hammer this point any further..</div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"></div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">For my part I will support this bill. I am one of those with tonnes of experience but with little formal education. I have tried to go to Uni and it was always painful to sit in those classes. What I will tell you is that for every other success story you hear of drop outs that you hear, there are 1000x more who are suffering the pain of being filtered out of many opportunities even before they can get a chance of presenting these skills that they hold.</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">It will be hard to get the exact right framework in place, but I am willing to put in the work of starting this journey and hopefully create a better future for many others that I can tell you will benefit from some kind of recognition of the work they have put into developing their careers.</div></div><br clear="all"><div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><div style="font-size:small;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Regards,</div><div style="font-size:small;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)"><br></div><div style="font-size:small;font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148)">Kevin</div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 18 December 2017 at 13:45, Collins Areba via kictanet <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><wbr>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">I do not even see what the problem here is, What is so hard in having a membership based organization (who's membership is open to all) regulating policy, where members then can openly discuss, define, and review :<div><br></div><div>a) What strengths we have as a nation on the ICT front, </div><div>b) What opportunities exist and how we can leverage this for the greater good and </div><div>c) How we should behave so our status professionally keeps rising. </div><div><br></div><div><div class="gmail_default" style="font-family:arial,helvetica,sans-serif;color:rgb(11,83,148);display:inline"></div>Why should some people somewhere earn dollars to sit in expensive committees to come up with a classroom style definition of what an ICT professional is, and then spend even more money stopping people from exploiting their creativity. </div><div><br></div><div><b><u>Bwana PS:</u></b> </div><div><br></div><div>I do not know what the motivations for this bill are, The only point of reference we have are the first one, I would still look at it suspiciously, especially the urgency with which it is being reintroduced, period! </div><div><br></div><div>Why not present the gaps as they are and we just focus on filling the gaps. </div><div><br></div><div>The one thing that differentiated how Britain's Industrial revolution was by magnitudes far more successful than France, is that one had an open policy to innovation, anyone could be listened to and the default challenge was always "Prove it", In the other, Before you showed up before schooled men & women, you had to prove you are qualified to even set foot on stage. </div><div><br></div><div>Names like John Kay, Richard Arkwright, James Watt and Stephenson would not exist today, in a worldview that seeks to strangle innovation. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div><div><div><div>Regards, <br><br></div>Collins Areba, </div></div></div><div>Kilifi, Kenya.</div><div>Tel: +<b><font color="#38761d">254 707 750 788 </font></b>/ <b><font color="#ff0000">0731750788</font></b><br>Twitter: @arebacollins.<br></div></div>Skype: arebacollins<br></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-h5">On Mon, Dec 18, 2017 at 12:45 PM, Victor Kapiyo via kictanet <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><wbr>></span> wrote:<br></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-h5"><div dir="auto">Jambo,<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">As we mull over this discussion, let us also consider how we engage. Attached is a Kictanet brief for discussion that identifies some key characteristics for inclusive cyber policy making that would be useful moving forward.<div dir="auto"><br></div><div dir="auto">Victor</div></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697h5">On 18 Dec 2017 10:16, "gertrude matata via kictanet" <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><wbr>> wrote:<br type="attribution"></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697h5"><div><div style="font-family:garamond,"new york",times,serif;font-size:16px"><div><div>In support of self regulation, there are at least some traditional guidelines when coming up with new legislation:</div><div><br></div><div>1. Is there serious mischief clearly identified that the law should address.</div><div><br></div><div>2. Who is best suited to cure the mischief</div><div>3.In prescribing a cure, consider whether the proposed cure is likely to create some other mischief ,if so</div><div>4. Consider which is the worse mischief , the current ill or the side effects of the cure.</div><div>5.Who would be qualified to cure is the authority or institution that is to be given the mandate to deal with the mischief. </div><div><br></div><div>So the pros and Cons of the Bill should be subjected to the test.</div><div><br></div><div>Gertrude Matata</div><div><br></div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpad568360signature"><br><font face="lucida console, sans-serif" size="1">GERTRUDE MATATA CO. 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On Monday, December 18, 2017, 11:19:05 AM GMT+3, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><wbr>> wrote:
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<div><div id="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109"><div><div>Replying to Julius Njiraini who has been posting one liners in support of the bill.....and also about this one organisation represents everyone....<div>we<span style="font-family:sans-serif"> are a diverse country with varying interests. And diversity is good as it helps us to get different points of view on the table. No one organisation has monopoly of views in ICT or any other sector. </span><div style="font-family:sans-serif">We must dissuade ourselves from the notion that people need the law or a new law to organise themselves. Humans are social and they organise naturally. KEPSA, KICTANet, ISACA and many others who engage on ICT policy exsist without a special law?</div><div style="font-family:sans-serif">I hope this debate can shift from forced association through ICT Practitioners Bill to identifying the problems and seeking solutions.</div><div style="font-family:sans-serif">In my view, one main challenge is that the Ministry could be more responsive to stakeholders who want to engage with it. And this should be any and all stakeholders who are interested be they organisations or individuals, all sectors- private, academia, techies and civil society. More openess than closeness please!</div><div style="font-family:sans-serif"><br clear="none"></div></div></div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_quote">On 18 Dec 2017 02:02, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><wbr>> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109yqt4446449265" id="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109yqt50331"><div><span>@Fiona</span><div><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span>I stand by my statement. </span></div><div><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span>We DID NOT mandate KEPSA to speak on our behalf but we created an inclusive team. This was a partnership. Even the letter to parliament had all our logos. KEPSA, BAKE, KICTANET etc. And yes that team was specifically set up to kill the ICT Bill. That work was concluded. To hear of a revived initiative that purported to have a representative from KICTANet is really a surprise to us all. </span></div><div><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span>If I recall the representatives from KICTANet were myself and Grace Bomu. John Walubengo was also part of the team in case one of us couldn’t attend the meetings. If there were any further initiatives on this bill the first time we heard about them was through the press. </span></div><div><span><br clear="none"></span></div><div><span>To be clear. I stand by my statement. KEPSA doesn’t have the mandate to represent KICTANet.</span></div><br clear="none"><div id="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301AppleMailSignature"><div><span><b>Ali Hussein</b></span></div><div><span><b>Principal</b></span></div><div><b>Hussein & Associates</b></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><a shape="rect">+254 0713 601113</a> </div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><br clear="none"></div><div><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span>Twitter: @AliHKassim</span></p><span><font></font></span><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span>Skype: abu-jomo</span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span>LinkedIn: <a shape="rect" href="http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://ke.linkedin. com/in/alihkassim</a></span></p><font><br clear="none"></font></div><div><span>"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle</span></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><span><br clear="none"></span></div>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br clear="none">On 17 Dec 2017, at 11:17 PM, Liz Orembo via kictanet <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> > wrote:<br clear="none"><br clear="none"></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr"><br clear="none">For the record KICTANet was opposed to the ICT practitioners bill. Please see the submission to parliament <a shape="rect" href="https://www.kictanet.or.ke/?page_id=28886" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.kictane t.or.ke/?page_id=28886</a><br clear="none"></div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 8:13 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <span dir="ltr"><<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> ></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Listers,<div><br clear="none"></div><div>Allow me to add a comment or two. I believe we will start deviating from the main issue.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Firstly, I think we need to very much understand where the buck stops on each matter. As much as yes, Bwana Mucheru, you require the industry to take lead in defining frameworks, there also needs to be guidance from the top. <a shape="rect" href="https://www.kictanet.or.ke/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">KICTANET</a> is (as on the website) a catalyst for reforms. Bwana Mucheru these reforms need to be worked on by the both of us. We need you to become a part of the process together with all of us. The whole point of having the MoICT and bodies like Kictanet (which are catalysts) is the fact that we need to work together. Silos don't solve a problem. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Bwana Mucheru, also I may not recollect this list necessarily being hostile in the past. And as any of us, you have a right to make your comments heard, and also I believe we need to also have a feedback loop between all of us. I think through the KICTANET website it is evident KICTANET has been doing its job well. If there are ways KICTANET can improve, Bwana Mucheru, feel free to raise the suggestions. This country belongs to all of us Sir.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Lastly, Bwana Mucheru, this list has too many members who are strategic to the development of our country. And all of us need to be engaged with you. I think it will not do all of us much justice if we see you refrain from commenting on it. Lets all work collectively.</div><div><br clear="none"></div></div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301HOEnZb"><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301h5"><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 7:20 PM, Fiona Asonga via kictanet <span dir="ltr"><<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> ></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-family:"times new roman","new york",times,serif;font-size:12pt;color:rgb(0,0,0)"><div>Dear Ali<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>You were with us at KEPSA Offices when we asked that KICATNET nominate representatives to work with us on the ICT Practitioners Bill. Because we want to achieve more as an industry we ave continues to work with your representatives even on the Vision 2030 MTP III plan and other engagements we have had with the ministry of ICT. It is not about KICTANET being a member but being a partner and working with TESPOK, DRAKE, KITOS, BAKE, ICTAK and any other ICT association. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>The document we circulated through KEPSA to the Ministry and parliament included KICATNET as part of KEPSA. You may need to reconsider your statement to CS Mucheru. Secondly, the KEPSA partnership with KICTANET is not compulsory. However, it is in the interest of achieving similar set goals for the ICT sector as a whole. KICATNET is free to pull out of it at any time just advise KEPSA secretariat on the same.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Together we can achieve more</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Kind regards</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><span></span><div><img src="cid:j4wC6qmuqfnWO1hN62l1"></div><span></span><br clear="none"></div><hr id="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068zwchr"><div style="color:rgb(0,0,0);font-weight:normal;font-style:normal;text-decoration:none;font-family:Helvetica,Arial,sans-serif;font-size:12pt"><b>From: </b>"Ali Hussein via kictanet" <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> ><br clear="none"><b>To: </b><a shape="rect" href="mailto:tespok@tespok.co.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">tespok@tespok.co.ke</a><br clear="none"><b>Cc: </b>"Ali Hussein" <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ali@hussein.me.ke</a>><br clear="none"><b>Sent: </b>Sunday, December 17, 2017 3:11:02 PM<div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082h5"><br clear="none"><b>Subject: </b>Re: [kictanet] ict practitioners bill is back<br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"></div><div dir="ltr"><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">Dear Bwana CS</div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br clear="none"></div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_default" style="font-family:georgia,serif">KICTANet NEVER asked KEPSA to handle engagements on our behalf. We engaged KEPSA to work as a team. Period. Never, did we abdicate our responsibilities to KEPSA because we are not KEPSA members. If KEPSA gave you that belief then I'm afraid that you were misled. And KEPSA should apologise for misleading you.</div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div dir="ltr"><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><b><span style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Ali
Hussein</span></b></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><b><span style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small">Principal</span></b></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif;font-size:small"><b>Hussein & Associates</b></span></p><span style="font-size:small">
</span><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size:small"> </span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span>T<span style="font-size:small">el: +254 713 60<span style="font-size:small">1113</span></span><br clear="none"></span></span></span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span>Twitter: @AliHKassim</span><span></span></span></span></p><span style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif">
</span></span><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span>Skype: abu-jomo</span></span></span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span>LinkedIn: <a shape="rect" href="http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alih kassim</a></span><a shape="rect" href="http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim" rel="nofollow" target="_blank"><span style="color:windowtext;text-decoration:none"></span></a></span></span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><br clear="none"></span></span></p><p style="font-size:small;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:georgia;color:black">13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing,</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:arial"></span></p><p style="font-size:small;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:georgia;color:black">Chiromo Road, Westlands,</span><span style="font-size:9.5pt;font-family:arial"></span></p><p style="font-size:small;margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="font-size:9pt;font-family:georgia;color:black">Nairobi, Kenya.</span></p><span style="font-size:small"><span style="font-family:georgia,serif"><span><br clear="none"><span style="font-size:xx-small">Any information of a personal nature expressed in this email are purely mine and do not necessarily reflect the official positions of the organizations that I work with.</span></span></span></span><span></span><span style="font-size:11pt"></span>
<span></span></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br clear="none"><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 4:53 PM, Joseph Mucheru via kictanet <span dir="ltr"><<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> ></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div><div>Ali Hussein,</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>This is the reason I keep off this list. You are calling me a liar and yet your team asked KEPSA to handle the engagements in this matter.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>With all respect going forward let's follow the agreed engagements between government and private sector.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Ahsante Sana!</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>JM<div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068h5"><br clear="none"><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_quote">On 17 Dec 2017 11:17, "Ali Hussein via kictanet" <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> > wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div>Bwana CS<div><br clear="none"></div><div>With all due respect. You are a senior government official and shouldn’t peddle untruths. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>KICTANet HAS NEVER BEEN PART OF KEPSA. </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>We have collaborated only once on the ICT BIll. Most of us don’t believe KEPSA is representative of the wider ICT Industry.</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>We welcome dialogue with your ministry and KEPSA on this. We are happy to be included in the conversation. We however CANNOT endorse a dialogue and discussions we are not party to. <br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"></div><div id="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555m_4231991929960913176AppleMailSignature"><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555quoted-text"><div><span><b>Ali Hussein</b></span></div><div><span><b>Principal</b></span></div><div><b>Hussein & Associates</b></div></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><a shape="rect">+254 0713 601113</a> </div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555quoted-text"><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><br clear="none"></div><div><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span>Twitter: @AliHKassim</span></p><span><span></span></span><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span>Skype: abu-jomo</span></p><p style="margin:0in 0in 0pt"><span>LinkedIn: <a shape="rect" href="http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://ke.linkedin.c om/in/alihkassim</a></span></p><span><br clear="none"></span></div></div><div><span>"We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, therefore, is not an act but a habit." ~ Aristotle</span></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div><span><br clear="none"></span></div>Sent from my iPad</div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555elided-text"><div><br clear="none">On 17 Dec 2017, at 9:04 AM, Julius Njiraini via kictanet <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> > wrote:<br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"></div></div><blockquote><div><p dir="ltr">Digital forensic expert is involved in investigation of fraud, abuse, embezzlement, larceny, conversion of any digital device, records and process. The report is supposed to be presented in courtroom and testify as expert witness. He is also supposed to corroborate evidence with other segment of crime scene using relevant laws including evidence act, criminal procedures code and cyber crime laws as best international laws in other countries </p>
<div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_quote">On Dec 17, 2017 8:32 AM, "Julius Njiraini" <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:njiraini2001@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">njiraini2001@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><p dir="ltr">Thanks for your enlightenment. Am just concerned about new emerging fields like information security and forensics which is mainly concerned with digital cyber crime and evidence presentation in courtroom. These is especially concerns for computer security and forensics professionals <br clear="none">
</p>
<div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_quote">On Dec 17, 2017 6:12 AM, "Joseph Mucheru via kictanet" <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> > wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr"><div>The absence of dialogue and relying on media reports is a recipe for discord. The current views, sentiments and concerns raised in the group are justified only because there is no dialogue. Kicktanet is part of <a shape="rect" href="https://kepsa.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">KEPSA</a> who we are in constant dialogue even on this topic. Going forward, the need to dialogue through the agreed channels is key;</div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>So let me try and give a position on where we are;</div><div><ul><li>I did state that we will need a Practitioners Bill and even clarified to media it would not be the current one</li><li>There is currently NO Bill in parliament. The last one lapsed and we would need to start afresh</li><li>The bill identified a need/gap in our sector that requires some action, especially since ICT is at the heart of the Governments development agenda<br clear="none"></li><li>The Industry was opposed with the method/solutions proposed by the Bill but not the fact there is a gap</li><li>Other Industries have self regulating bodies and if our sector is to grow, we need to get organised and set this up. Why should government have to do it?</li><li>We are exporting our skills regionally and internationally and a need to standardise and demonstrate our skills is key. This is because we are not working in isolation, we are competing with other countries and Kenya must be able to demonstrate consistent and quality skills -- today we are blacklisted on various online jobs platforms because of a few bad apples, while we know we have some of the best talents, we are also losing tenders and business because we have not conformed to specific international standards and so the rating of our products/services falls short. (KBS is working on the standards)</li></ul><div>And for the accusations...</div><ul><li>It was a private members bill and not sponsored by Government (We opposed it in its current form - you know that, otherwise google it).<br clear="none"></li><li>Responding to questions from the sector does not amount to a "roadside decision", considering the level of engagement we have had on this issue</li><li>The Government is there to serve the people of Kenya and not just the sector in isolation</li><li>Skills Rating systems used by platforms such as <a shape="rect" href="http://Kuhastle.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Kuhastle.com</a>, <a shape="rect" href="http://upwork.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">upwork.com</a>., <a shape="rect" href="http://cloudfactory.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">cloudfactory.com</a>, <a shape="rect" href="http://monster.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">monster.com</a>..etc are examples of ways people are able to build and demonstrate skills both technical and otherwise</li><li>I have had engagements on this topic with KEPSA (<a shape="rect" href="https://kepsa.or.ke/sector-comittees/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ICT Sector Committee</a>) - Mike Macharia being the Chair</li><li>I saw in social media many of you opposed to <a shape="rect" href="http://www.ictak.or.ke/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ICTAK</a> being enjoined in the supreme court presidential petition, but none came out (Kicktanet included) to support/represent the sector, which was at the heart of the dispute. At the very least <a shape="rect" href="http://www.ictak.or.ke/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">ICTAK</a> was willing to come forward.</li><li>Similar to the Law Society, The Supreme Court should have chosen the ICT experts from the ICT Industry body?</li></ul><div>My advice would be for the sector to take the lead and suggest how this need/gap of<b> "SKILLS RATING" standards etc.. </b>can be addressed. We are on the same side. If industry does not take the lead, then Government will step in. As it stands, industry has various bodies and you need to agree on how to engage amongst yourselves. We are going to be successful and so let us push in the same direction.</div></div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>Finally, today the official engagement between government and the ICT sector is through <a shape="rect" href="https://kepsa.or.ke/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">KEPSA</a> . (KICTAnet, TESPOK, KITOS etc.. are members and even when we engaged on the ICT Practitioners bill, the sector was represented by KEPSA, when we met MPs). </div><div><br clear="none"></div><div>The last discussion on Tuesday 14th December 2017 between KEPSA and the Ministry covered the following topics;</div><div><ol><li>ICT Policy</li><li>Kick-off Industry meetings</li><li>Bills / Opinions - ICT Practitioners Bill</li><li><a shape="rect" href="http://icta.go.ke/digitalent/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">PDTP</a> + <a shape="rect" href="http://ajiradigital.go.ke/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Ajira Digital</a> (Jobs)</li><li>Flagship Projects</li><li><a shape="rect" href="http://www.ict.go.ke/constituency-to-get-an-innovation-hub/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Constituency Development Hubs</a></li><li>ICTA Engagement with Counties</li><li>Enterprise Kenya</li><li>Blockchain</li></ol></div><div><div>Thank you!</div></div></div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_extra"><br clear="none"><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_quote">On Sun, Dec 17, 2017 at 3:07 AM, Andrew Alston via kictanet <span dir="ltr"><<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> ></span> wrote:<br clear="none"><blockquote class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left:1px solid rgb(204,204,204);padding-left:1ex">
<div lang="EN-GB">
<div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555m_4231991929960913176m_-5963940743199973126m_5641128830240308807m_178681385014258043WordSection1">
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Hi All,<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">So – having seen an article in the standardmedia in which elements of what I stated below were quoted – and to which there seem to have been responses – I now need to comment further:<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">(Article found at: <a shape="rect" href="https://www.standardmedia.co.ke/business/article/2001263257/techies-oppose-move-to-introduce-new-ict-watchdog" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.standardmedia.co.k e/business/article/2001263257/ techies-oppose-move-to-introdu ce-new-ict-watchdog</a>)<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="text-decoration:underline"><span style="font-size:10pt">Mucheru, however, denies that the Bill will lock out experts without formal training insisting the reverse will be the case. “This Bill will benefit the people who have
been working in technical capacity for years but have not acquired certificates,” he explained. “If they can demonstrate their proficiency to the Institute then they can get certified and widen the scope of jobs they can bid or apply for.”<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></span></i></b></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">So – I have a question – What will be the method of demonstrating proficiency and how will this be tested – and what will it cost – and how long will it take.<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Now – let me break the questions down a bit<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="a"><li class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555m_4231991929960913176m_-5963940743199973126m_5641128830240308807m_178681385014258043MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span style="font-size:10pt">The ICT field is vast – are you going to test proficiency in programming? In networking? In security? In database administration?
In desktop support? In Linux? Freebsd? Microsoft? Solaris? AIX? What is the test going to be – and who is going to administer these tests<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></li><li class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555m_4231991929960913176m_-5963940743199973126m_5641128830240308807m_178681385014258043MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span style="font-size:10pt">What makes an industry body more capable of testing proficiency than Cisco, Juniper, Huawei or any of the other vendors –
the bill does *<b>NOT</b>* cater for industry standard certification outside of formal education – it simply is not in there – and if you are not going to accept these and are going to have this industry body determine proficiency – we need to know how this
will be done and how the people testing proficiency will be qualified to do it – and in what fields they are qualified to test proficiency.<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></li><li class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555m_4231991929960913176m_-5963940743199973126m_5641128830240308807m_178681385014258043MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span style="font-size:10pt">What is the cost of this testing of proficiency – does an individual who has certified as a CCIE at the cost of thousands
– and in some cases tens of thousands – of dollars suddenly need to pay more to demonstrate something that he has clearly already demonstrated? Who will it be paid for? How will the money be utilized? Will this be included in the license fee for the first
year? Or will this suddenly cost extra so someone can make some money?<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></li><li class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555m_4231991929960913176m_-5963940743199973126m_5641128830240308807m_178681385014258043MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span style="font-size:10pt">How does does it take to “demonstrate proficiency” – and if I bring in someone from outside to train my staff in a new field
of technology – is he going to be made to sit some kind of exam? Or pay some kind of fee before he can upskill Kenyans? Because – lets be real – that is not going to happen – it will be the death of bringing in people to impart knowledge.
<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></li></ol>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Let me be blunt – more than half the authors of the RFC’s within the IETF would not qualify under the bill as it stands – this means they would have to “demonstrate” their proficiency
– despite the fact that they have their names on Internet standards – and if people expect these individuals to sit exams or prove to people that they know what they are doing – despite the knowledge having been clearly demonstrated (which is why they are
being flown in in the first place, to train Kenyans in skills that are not available in the country so that those Kenyans can continue to further upskill and lift up the industry) – you can kiss goodbye to having cutting edge people coming into this country
– it simply won’t happen – and it will be Kenya that loses out.<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Then to comment on this:<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="text-decoration:underline"><span style="font-size:10pt">Mucheru adds that the Government has held several engagements with practitioners in the sector on the provisions of the Bill.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></span></i></b></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Correct – there was massive engagement – and the bill was largely defeated after the industry said it was broken – after people on this list said it was broken – after it was slammed
left right and centre – so yes – there was engagement – but the article is wrong about the fact that the engagement agreed that this bill in its current form was a good idea or represented the correct solution.<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="text-decoration:underline"><span style="font-size:10pt">“There was consensus that we need to establish a professional body to regulate the industry,” he said.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
</span></span></i></b><span style="font-size:10pt"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">I have no problem with the concept of a professional body – I have major problems with forcing a situation where people who have potentially decades of experience have to suddenly
“prove” their skills via some entirely undefined means at some undefined cost to a bunch of people who may or may not have anywhere close to the experience or knowledge of the person being tested. If we said that we had a professional body that people could
register to – and they needed to be registered – and in the event of <b><i><span style="text-decoration:underline">substantiated</span></i></b> complaints the individual could be deregistered and blacklisted – I would have no problem. It is the arbitrary and unsubstantiated and undefined criteria
for registration that I take exception to – and that I believe could result in expensive legal challenges.<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt">Please – do not get me wrong – I do not begrudge anyone who has a desire to genuinely root out the bad apples and clean up the industry and remove scam artists and fraudsters. I
think that is a noble and pure objective that should be pursued. I however dispute the fact that this bill is the right way to go about it – and I dispute the fact that university degrees have anything to do with competence in this industry – particularly
with the rate that technology evolves – because an individual doing a 3 year degree who is learning specific technologies in his first year – by the time he graduates – those technologies are history – and when he walks into the industry – he is having to
self study it all again ANYWAY. Let me give you examples of technologies that did not exist a year ago in any real form:<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="a"><li class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555m_4231991929960913176m_-5963940743199973126m_5641128830240308807m_178681385014258043MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span style="font-size:10pt">Segment routing – the foundation of network routing going forward and the replacement to MPLS – how do I know this – because
I’ve had my hands in crafting the specifications and doing a lot of the beta testing for it – so who is going to test proficiency here – it changes the game – and the only people qualified to teach it – or gauge the proficiency in it – do not themselves qualify
under this bill to be registered. <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></li><li class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555m_4231991929960913176m_-5963940743199973126m_5641128830240308807m_178681385014258043MsoListParagraph" style="margin-left:0cm"><span style="font-size:10pt">Network telemetry processing – first introduced in limited form in Q3 2015 – and only now becoming main stream – but within
a year of it being main stream – it will replace standard network monitoring entirely – who is going to teach that with a university degree?<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></li><li class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555m_4231991929960913176m_-5963940743199973126m_5641128830240308807m_178681385014258043MsoListParagraph" style="color:black;margin-left:0cm">
<span style="font-size:10pt;color:windowtext">Which university degree teaches BGP? BGP-LU? ISIS? Network segmentation? IPv6 addressing?</span><span style="font-size:10pt"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></li></ol>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black">The list is endless – these are things that cannot be learnt through a degree – they are learnt through industry standard certification or self-skilling by reading documentation.
<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black">So, Mr Mucheru – please – do not read me wrong – I have tremendous respect for the regulator in this country – and it is testament to how well the Kenyan industry and the regulatory environment
here works that today – Kenya has higher average mobile broadband speeds than either the US or South Africa or a lot of other places. It is testament to the regulatory environment here that we have the high-speed networks we do – and that the pricing is as
low as it is – because the industry is competitive and open and innovative. This list of things the regulator has gotten right in this country is long - I do however plead with you, the bill as it stands would break the industry that all of us – yourself
– myself – and so many others have worked so hard to build. I am NOT against a professional body – I am NOT against formalizing things – but I beg you – do not walk down the road of this current bill in its current form – it will be death to this industry
in this country. <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black">Andrew Alston<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10pt;color:black"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-size:12pt;color:black">Andrew Alston <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.c om</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Date: </b>Monday, 4 December 2017 at 01:24<br clear="none">
<b>To: </b>KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> ><br clear="none">
<b>Cc: </b>Liz Wanjiru <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:lizwanjiru@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lizwanjiru@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Subject: </b>RE: [kictanet] ict practitioners bill is back<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></span></p><div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555m_4231991929960913176m_-5963940743199973126m_5641128830240308807h5">
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span>I have to say – personally I cannot think of a worse piece of legislation that I have seen in recent history.</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span> </span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span>Let us look at the net effects of this and the problems with it:</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span> </span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
<ol style="margin-top:0cm" start="1" type="a"><li class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0cm"><span>Large companies bring in consultants or external people where necessary to supplement capacity, to train and upskill Kenyan staff etc, while those
guys are here, even for a week or two, they are compensated, and my reading of this bill is – this would be illegal – because you’d have to get every consultant you bring in accredited and licensed first – which is impractical in the extreme</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></li><li class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0cm"><span>The list of highly skilled people with 20+ years experience who would not qualify for accreditation under this bill is extensive, globally and within
Kenya – this bill completely stops any form of knowledge transfer from those individuals and in fact will force a situation where Kenyan’s who wish to learn from some of the biggest names in the industry would be forced to go internationally to get that knowledge,
rather than bringing those people in to train locally</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></li><li class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0cm"><span>It forces Kenyans who have spent years learning and honing their skills without university qualifications out of work and could well result in large
scale job losses looking at the number of highly skilled individuals I know of who are working without qualifications</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></li><li class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0cm"><span>It prevents private companies from making what are normal business decisions – who they hire and who they pay. That is problematic in the extreme
– in any normal situation if a private company hires staff that don’t perform – those staff either get fired or the market rejects the company and the company disappears – standard market dynamics – in this case – if a company finds extremely talented people
they may be forced into a position where they have to hire less skilled people because someone can’t meet some accreditation requirement.</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></li><li class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0cm"><span>The bill has no recognition of prior experience – no recognition of those who have published papers and are world recognized experts – does not specify
what the “recognized” universities are – does not take into account industry standard certification (CISSP/CCNA/CCIE/CCDP/JNCIE/JN CIP/JNCIA, the list is endless)</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></li><li class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal" style="margin-left:0cm"><span>May well end up in the constitutional court when it deprives a host of people who have spent their lives working in this industry and have no other
options for a career of the ability to earn a living</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></li></ol>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span> </span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span>The bill relies on the belief that a university qualification some how makes you better than those without – it’s reasoning that has been disproved globally for years and years and years – and it
flies in the face of the global industry and the way the ICT industry has worked since the day it began. It is damaging to the industry in Kenya – it is damaging to the growth prospects of the economy as a result – it is damaging to the people of Kenya –
and it will destroy the position that Kenya is in as one of the leaders of the ICT industry on the continent (Kenya already has the highest average broadband speeds on the continent and significantly better ICT infrastructure than you will find even in South
Africa – it is doing so well – why break a system that is proving functional?)</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span> </span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span>I really hope this does not pass – and if it does – will be curious to see the court challenges and how they play out – but I think this is madness personally – and in the name of stopping a few
bad individuals – penalizes the entire country and will destroy an industry that employs thousands.</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span> </span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span>Andrew</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span> </span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span> </span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US"> kictanet [mailto:<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bandrew.alston" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet-bounces+andre w.alston</a>=<a shape="rect" href="mailto:liquidtelecom.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">liquidtelecom.com@lis ts.kictanet.or.ke</a>]
<b>On Behalf Of </b>Liz Wanjiru via kictanet<br clear="none">
<b>Sent:</b> 04 December 2017 06:43<br clear="none">
<b>To:</b> Andrew Alston <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Andrew.Alston@liquidtelecom.c om</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Cc:</b> Liz Wanjiru <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:lizwanjiru@gmail.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">lizwanjiru@gmail.com</a>><br clear="none">
<b>Subject:</b> Re: [kictanet] ict practitioners bill is back</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span>Hi,</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span> </span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span>While trying to push such laws shouldn't they be looking at credentialing people without formal ICT schooling but have the experience, knowledge and skills to back them? These people have
talent and positively contribute in the industry. Some countries have learning institutions credentialing professionals based on their body of work and so long as they can demonstrate this they are awarded the degrees or other government approved certifications.
Here is an example of such</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span> </span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span><a shape="rect" href="http://www.ara.ac.nz/study-options/centre-for-assessment-of-prior-learning-capl" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">Link</a></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span> </span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span> </span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><span>Liz</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal">On Mon, Dec 4, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Ahmed Mohamed Maawy via kictanet <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> > wrote:<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal">I wonder how some of the ground breaking technology companies - such as for instance Google Kenya, can operate if this bill is passed.<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"> <span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal">On Sun, Dec 3, 2017 at 4:57 PM, Watila Alex via kictanet <<a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> > wrote:<span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<pre id="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555m_4231991929960913176m_-5963940743199973126m_5641128830240308807m_178681385014258043m_-28294606130211178m_8810419169842913273yMail_cursorElementTracker_1512309401527" style="white-space:pre-wrap"><span style="font-family:inherit">EricKigada: Kenya’s controversial ICT Practitioners Bill 2016 to be tabled in parliament again</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:inherit"><a shape="rect" href="http://techmoran.com/kenyas-controv" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">techmoran.com/kenyas-controv</a>…</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></pre>
<pre><span style="font-family:inherit"><a shape="rect" href="https://twitter.com/EricKigada/status/937309893954031616" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://twitter.com/EricKigada /status/937309893954031616</a></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></pre>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal"><b><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136)">Ahmed Maawy</span></b><span style="color:rgb(136,136,136)"><br clear="none">
Head of Corporate Products - Al Jazeera Media Network<br clear="none">
Skype: ultimateprogramer</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT
enabled growth and development.<br clear="none">
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span>Kind Regards</span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span><span style="text-decoration:underline"></span></p>
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<p class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12pt"><span>Liz Wanjiru<br clear="none">
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none"></blockquote></div><br clear="none"><br clear="all"><div><br clear="none"></div>-- <br clear="none"><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555m_4231991929960913176m_-5963940743199973126m_5641128830240308807gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div>Joseph Mucheru E.G.H<div><b>Cabinet Secretary</b></div><div>Ministry of Information Communications & Technology (ICT)</div><div><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br clear="none">
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</div></blockquote></div><blockquote><div><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555elided-text"><span>______________________________ _________________</span><br clear="none"><span>kictanet mailing list</span><br clear="none"><span><a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a></span><br clear="none"><span><a shape="rect" href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/listinfo/kictanet</a></span><br clear="none"><span>Twitter: <a shape="rect" href="http://twitter.com/kictanet" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/kictanet</a></span><br clear="none"><span>Facebook: <a shape="rect" href="https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/KICTA Net/</a></span><br clear="none"><span></span><br clear="none"></div><span>Unsubscribe or change your options at <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40campusciti.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/options/kictanet/info%4 0campusciti.com</a></span><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082m_4141043260958499068m_-6633355627415570555quoted-text"><br clear="none"><span></span><br clear="none"><span>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.</span><br clear="none"><span></span><br clear="none"><span>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.</span><br clear="none"></div></div></blockquote></div></div><br clear="none">______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br clear="none">
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br clear="none">
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<br clear="none">______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">kictanet mailing list<br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br clear="none"><a shape="rect" href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br clear="none">Twitter: <a shape="rect" href="http://twitter.com/kictanet" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/kictanet</a><br clear="none">Facebook: <a shape="rect" href="https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/KICTA Net/</a><br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div>Unsubscribe or change your options at <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/tespok%40tespok.co.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/m ailman/options/kictanet/tespok %40tespok.co.ke</a><span><br clear="none"></span><div><br clear="none"></div>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br clear="none"><div><br clear="none"></div>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br clear="none"></div><div><br clear="none"></div></div></div><br clear="none">______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none"></blockquote></div><br clear="none"><br clear="all"><div><br clear="none"></div>-- <br clear="none"><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301m_9163149035017461082gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><b>Ahmed Maawy</b><br clear="none">Head of Corporate Products - Al Jazeera Media Network<br clear="none">Skype: ultimateprogramer<br clear="none"></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none">
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br clear="none">
<br clear="none"></blockquote></div><br clear="none"><br clear="all"><br clear="none">-- <br clear="none"><div class="m_1345683097897107732gmail-m_1238216988228103697m_6647478477611176602m_-7089078604970969422ydpeb7dc748yiv4440842109m_-7429340673667778301gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><br clear="none"><div><font style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="2">Best regards.<br clear="none">
</font></div>
<div><font style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif" size="2"><font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">Liz.</font><br clear="none">
</font></div>
<font size="2"><font style="font-family:"comic sans ms",sans-serif" face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif"><br clear="none">
P<font face="arial, helvetica, sans-serif">GP ID: </font>0x1F3488BF</font></font></div></div></div>
</div>
</div></blockquote><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>______________________________ _________________</span><br clear="none"><span>kictanet mailing list</span><br clear="none"><span><a shape="rect" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a></span><br clear="none"><span><a shape="rect" href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/ mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a></span><br clear="none"><span>Twitter: <a shape="rect" href="http://twitter.com/kictanet" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">http://twitter.com/kictanet</a></span><br clear="none"><span>Facebook: <a shape="rect" href="https://www.facebook.com/KICTANet/" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://www.facebook.com/ KICTANet/</a></span><br clear="none"><span></span><br clear="none"><span>Unsubscribe or change your options at <a shape="rect" href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/info%40alyhussein.com" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/ mailman/options/kictanet/info% 40alyhussein.com</a></span><br clear="none"><span></span><br clear="none"><span>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.</span><br clear="none"><span></span><br clear="none"><span>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.</span><br clear="none"></div></blockquote></div></div><br clear="none">______________________________ _________________<br clear="none">
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br clear="none">
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
<br>
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
<br>
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
<br>
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Anyega M Jefferson<br><br></div><div><a href="mailto:jeffersonanyega@gmail.com" target="_blank">jeffersonanyega@gmail.com</a><br><br>0703824326<br></div><div dir="ltr"><br>Start where you are,use what you have and do what you can.<br><br></div></div></div></div>
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