<div dir="ltr">Listers,<div><br></div><div>Article 4 clause (1) (e) of the proposed law states the Council of the proposed Institute shall consist of...<div><br></div>"five persons of good professional standing nominated by the <i>Information Communication Technology Association of Kenya</i>" [emphasis added]<div><br></div><div>which elevates ICTAK (a members' society) to the level of a statutory body! Clearly ICTAK is trying to entrench themselves into a legal body.</div><div><br></div><div>Not good.<br><div><div class="gmail_extra"><br clear="all"><div><div class="gmail_signature" data-smartmail="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr"><div>With kind regards,<br><br><a href="http://www.paulkorir.com" target="_blank">Paul K. Korir</a><br></div><div>+353 86 224 19 66<br></div><i>Ordnung muß sein</i></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 8 July 2016 at 10:41, <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet-request@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Send kictanet mailing list submissions to<br>
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Today's Topics:<br>
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1. Re: Fwd: STATEMENT ON THE INFORMATION COMMUNICATION<br>
TECHNOLOGY (ICT) PRACTITIONERS BILL 2016 BY ICTA<br>
(Ephraim Percy Kenyanito)<br>
2. Re: Fwd: STATEMENT ON THE INFORMATION COMMUNICATION<br>
TECHNOLOGY (ICT) PRACTITIONERS BILL 2016 BY ICTA (waudo siganga)<br>
<br>
<br>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 1<br>
Date: Fri, 8 Jul 2016 12:30:22 +0300<br>
From: Ephraim Percy Kenyanito <<a href="mailto:ephraim@accessnow.org">ephraim@accessnow.org</a>><br>
To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: STATEMENT ON THE INFORMATION<br>
COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY (ICT) PRACTITIONERS BILL 2016 BY ICTA<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<CA+pBW0HtCeUdp5BG7WHFy2E62=YixFcSV36Nr2L=-S3L357=<a href="mailto:RQ@mail.gmail.com">RQ@mail.gmail.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
+1 to Michuki and Kivuva.<br>
<br>
E<br>
<br>
--<br>
Best Regards,<br>
<br>
*Ephraim Percy Kenyanito*<br>
Sub-Saharan Africa Policy Analyst/ Mchambuzi wa Sera Afrika Kusini ya Sahara<br>
Access Now | <a href="http://accessnow.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">accessnow.org</a><br>
<br>
@ekenyanito<br>
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On 8 July 2016 at 12:25, Liz Orembo via kictanet <<br>
<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
><br>
> Who are the members of ICTAK? Has anyone managed to check on their website?<br>
><br>
> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016 at 11:45 AM, Tony White via kictanet <<br>
> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
>> Another piece of absolute nonsense. Our ICT sector is too dynamic at<br>
>> present, compared with the other professions cited, which are settled<br>
>> and well established ...and are slow to change. The ICTAK is in<br>
>> favour of this because it promotes *their* agenda, which is not<br>
>> aligned with the profession as a whole - indeed, I suspect they are<br>
>> behind the bill's creation.<br>
>><br>
>> Let's hope that CS Mucheru - who has stated that the bill is not<br>
>> ministry or government policy - will push for the rejection of the<br>
>> bill when it comes to a vote in the national assembly.<br>
>><br>
>> Cheers,<br>
>> Tony<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On 08/07/2016, Mwendwa Kivuva via kictanet<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
>> > @Waudo,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > The industry has tackled the bill on multiple fronts. There have been<br>
>> > memoranda from multiple sources to parliament in rejection of the bill<br>
>> in<br>
>> > totality. Distinguished progressive Members of the National Assembly<br>
>> have<br>
>> > also been contacted to fight for the interests of the community, and<br>
>> moreso<br>
>> > the youth. All this effort culminated with the CS of ICT issuing the<br>
>> > statement that went out on Wednesday.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On that note, and to strengthen the process, it would be great if CSK<br>
>> > approach it's lawyers, and members, and also submits a response to the<br>
>> > Clerk of the National Assembly. Together we are stronger.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Sincerely,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > ______________________<br>
>> > Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya<br>
>> > <a href="http://twitter.com/lordmwesh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">twitter.com/lordmwesh</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > On 8 July 2016 at 10:37, waudo siganga via kictanet <<br>
>> > <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
>> ><br>
>> >> Ali, Koris, Ngigi, and others - I hope we still get some advise from<br>
>> our<br>
>> >> ICT legal minds e.g. Bomu, Muriungi, Sihanhya, etc. in order to have a<br>
>> >> structured way forward Where, for example, and in what format does one<br>
>> >> present objections to the MPs since the bill has already been rushed<br>
>> >> there? Is it too late to stop the MPs from even considering it? How<br>
>> come<br>
>> >> the CS has disowned it and yet it is still moving forward?<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> W.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016, at 10:12 AM, Waithaka Ngigi via kictanet wrote:<br>
>> >> > Ali,<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > It's very clear now where this bill most likely comes from!<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > And any one whose line of thought starts with "...the rate at which<br>
>> >> > technology evolves does not outstrip existing policy and legal<br>
>> >> > frameworks?..." clearly does *not* understand technology, which<br>
>> always<br>
>> >> > outstrips policy & legal frameworks.<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > If ICTAK wants to regulate it's own members, fine. Let them draft the<br>
>> >> > most draconian and I'll thought regulations they can?. Just don't<br>
>> >> > impose<br>
>> >> > them onto the rest of us.<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > On another note, the ones with the 'powers'; the name ICTAK uses, is<br>
>> it<br>
>> >> > legal? It seems to give credence to the fact that they represent ICT<br>
>> >> > practitioners in Kenya, which the do not.<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > Waithaka Ngigi<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > Alliance Technologies<br>
>> >> > <a href="http://www.at.co.ke" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.at.co.ke</a><br>
>> >> > Original Message<br>
>> >> > From: Ali Hussein via kictanet<br>
>> >> > Sent: Friday, July 8, 2016 9:09 AM<br>
>> >> > To: Ngigi Waithaka<br>
>> >> > Reply To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<br>
>> >> > Cc: Ali Hussein<br>
>> >> > Subject: [kictanet] Fwd: STATEMENT ON THE INFORMATION COMMUNICATION<br>
>> >> > TECHNOLOGY (ICT) PRACTITIONERS BILL 2016 BY ICTA<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > Listers<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > Please see attached. Clearly we have a fight in our hands. Let's not<br>
>> >> > let<br>
>> >> > up on this.<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > Ali Hussein<br>
>> >> > Principal<br>
>> >> > Hussein & Associates<br>
>> >> > <a href="tel:%2B254%200713%20601113" value="+254713601113">+254 0713 601113</a> / <a href="tel:0770906375" value="+254770906375">0770906375</a><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > Twitter: @AliHKassim<br>
>> >> > Skype: abu-jomo<br>
>> >> > LinkedIn: <a href="http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim</a><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and<br>
>> thinking<br>
>> >> > what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > Sent from my iPad<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > ><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> > kictanet mailing list<br>
>> >> > <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
>> >> > <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > Unsubscribe or change your options at<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.com</a><br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder<br>
>> platform<br>
>> >> > for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and<br>
>> >> > regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the<br>
>> ICT<br>
>> >> > sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and<br>
>> >> > development.<br>
>> >> ><br>
>> >> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable<br>
>> behaviors<br>
>> >> > online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and<br>
>> >> > bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize,<br>
>> >> > respect<br>
>> >> > privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> _______________________________________________<br>
>> >> kictanet mailing list<br>
>> >> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
>> >> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> Unsubscribe or change your options at<br>
>> >><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafrica.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/kivuva%40transworldafrica.com</a><br>
>> >><br>
>> >> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform<br>
>> >> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and<br>
>> >> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT<br>
>> >> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and<br>
>> >> development.<br>
>> >><br>
>> >> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors<br>
>> >> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and<br>
>> >> bandwidth,<br>
>> >> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy,<br>
>> do<br>
>> >> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
>> >><br>
>> ><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> --<br>
>> Tony White<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> kictanet mailing list<br>
>> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
>><br>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at<br>
>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lizorembo%40gmail.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/lizorembo%40gmail.com</a><br>
>><br>
>> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform<br>
>> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and<br>
>> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT<br>
>> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
>><br>
>> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors<br>
>> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,<br>
>> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do<br>
>> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
>><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> --<br>
><br>
> Best regards.<br>
> Liz.<br>
><br>
> PGP ID: 0x1F3488BF<br>
><br>
> _______________________________________________<br>
> kictanet mailing list<br>
> <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
><br>
> Unsubscribe or change your options at<br>
> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ephraim%40accessnow.org" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ephraim%40accessnow.org</a><br>
><br>
> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform<br>
> for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and<br>
> regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT<br>
> sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
><br>
> KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors<br>
> online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth,<br>
> share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do<br>
> not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
><br>
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------------------------------<br>
<br>
Message: 2<br>
Date: Fri, 08 Jul 2016 12:37:17 +0300<br>
From: waudo siganga <<a href="mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com">emailsignet@mailcan.com</a>><br>
To: Mwendwa Kivuva <<a href="mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com">Kivuva@transworldafrica.com</a>>, KICTAnet ICT Policy<br>
Discussions <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>><br>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] Fwd: STATEMENT ON THE INFORMATION<br>
COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY (ICT) PRACTITIONERS BILL 2016 BY ICTA<br>
Message-ID:<br>
<<a href="mailto:1467970637.3675884.660398865.7EC1D6C3@webmail.messagingengine.com">1467970637.3675884.660398865.7EC1D6C3@webmail.messagingengine.com</a>><br>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"<br>
<br>
Thanks Kivuva. Of course we just needed to show that we are doing<br>
something but in my view; the bill is a load of nonsense that will not<br>
succeed. I have been in this industry/profession for over 35 years<br>
having been in the first computer science class in Chiromo in 1980 so my<br>
views should be useful; it's just sad the whole thing was plotted as an<br>
ambush until as late a having it in Parliament -possibly after sensing<br>
that it would generate a lot of resistance. We are together and I'm<br>
pleased I have so far not seen anyone supporting the bill on this list.<br>
I hope it's not passed, but if it is, it will at best not work and at<br>
worst inconvenience a lot of people.<br>
<br>
W.<br>
<br>
On Fri, Jul 8, 2016, at 11:34 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:<br>
> @Waudo,<br>
><br>
> The industry has tackled the bill on multiple fronts. There have been<br>
> memoranda from multiple sources to parliament in rejection of the bill<br>
> in totality. Distinguished progressive Members of the National<br>
> Assembly have also been contacted to fight for the interests of the<br>
> community, and moreso the youth. All this effort culminated with the<br>
> CS of ICT issuing the statement that went out on Wednesday.<br>
><br>
> On that note, and to strengthen the process, it would be great if CSK<br>
> approach it's lawyers, and members, and also submits a response to the<br>
> Clerk of the National Assembly. Together we are stronger.<br>
><br>
> Sincerely,<br>
><br>
> ______________________<br>
> Mwendwa Kivuva, Nairobi, Kenya <a href="http://twitter.com/lordmwesh" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">twitter.com/lordmwesh</a><br>
><br>
><br>
><br>
> On 8 July 2016 at 10:37, waudo siganga via kictanet<br>
> <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
>> Ali, Koris, Ngigi, and others - I hope we still get some advise from<br>
>> our ICT legal minds e.g. Bomu, Muriungi, Sihanhya, etc. in order to<br>
>> have a structured way forward Where, for example, and in what format<br>
>> does one present objections to the MPs since the bill has already<br>
>> been rushed there? Is it too late to stop the MPs from even<br>
>> considering it? How come the CS has disowned it and yet it is still<br>
>> moving forward?<br>
>><br>
>> W.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Fri, Jul 8, 2016, at 10:12 AM, Waithaka Ngigi via kictanet wrote:<br>
>> > Ali,<br>
>> ><br>
>> > It's very clear now where this bill most likely comes from!<br>
>> ><br>
>> > And any one whose line of thought starts with "...the rate at<br>
>> > which technology evolves does not outstrip existing policy and<br>
>> > legal frameworks?..." clearly does *not* understand technology,<br>
>> > which always outstrips policy & legal frameworks.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > If ICTAK wants to regulate it's own members, fine. Let them draft<br>
>> > the most draconian and I'll thought regulations they can?. Just<br>
>> > don't impose them onto the rest of us.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > On another note, the ones with the 'powers'; the name ICTAK uses,<br>
>> > is it legal? It seems to give credence to the fact that they<br>
>> > represent ICT practitioners in Kenya, which the do not.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Waithaka Ngigi<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Alliance Technologies <a href="http://www.at.co.ke" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">www.at.co.ke</a> Original Message From: Ali<br>
>> > Hussein via kictanet Sent: Friday, July 8, 2016 9:09 AM To: Ngigi<br>
>> > Waithaka Reply To: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions Cc: Ali Hussein<br>
>> > Subject: [kictanet] Fwd: STATEMENT ON THE INFORMATION<br>
>> > COMMUNICATION TECHNOLOGY (ICT) PRACTITIONERS BILL 2016 BY ICTA<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Listers<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Please see attached. Clearly we have a fight in our hands. Let's<br>
>> > not let up on this.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Ali Hussein Principal Hussein & Associates <a href="tel:%2B254%200713%20601113" value="+254713601113">+254 0713 601113</a> /<br>
>> > <a href="tel:0770906375" value="+254770906375">0770906375</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn:<br>
>> > <a href="http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > "Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and<br>
>> > thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Gy?rgyi<br>
>> ><br>
>> > Sent from my iPad<br>
>> ><br>
>> > ><br>
>> ><br>
>> > _______________________________________________<br>
>> > kictanet mailing list <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > Unsubscribe or change your options at<br>
>> > <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.com" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/emailsignet%40mailcan.com</a><br>
>> ><br>
>> > The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder<br>
>> > platform for people and institutions interested and involved in<br>
>> > ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst<br>
>> > for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT<br>
>> > enabled growth and development.<br>
>> ><br>
>> > KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable<br>
>> > behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's<br>
>> > times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or<br>
>> > personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your<br>
>> > wares or qualifications.<br>
>><br>
>> _______________________________________________<br>
>> kictanet mailing list <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
>> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" rel="noreferrer" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
>><br>
>> Unsubscribe or change your options at<br>
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