<html><head><meta http-equiv="Content-Type" content="text/html; charset=UTF-8"></head><body ><div><div></div><div>Listers, </div><div>It is difficult to interrogate a Bill without the policy which informed the drafting of the Bill? So where is the policy and were there any stakeholder consultations. If none the process is unconstitutional. </div><div><br></div><div>John Kariuki. </div><div><br></div><div><br></div><div><div style="font-size:75%;color:#575757">Sent from Samsung Mobile</div></div></div> <br><br><br>-------- Original message --------<br>From: Collins Areba via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke> <br>Date: <br>To: ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk <br>Cc: Collins Areba <arebacollins@gmail.com> <br>Subject: Re: [kictanet] KENYA ICT PRACTITIONERS BILL NOW IN PARLIAMENT, PAY XXX PER YEAR FOR LICENSE TO PRACTICE <br> <br><br><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><font class="Apple-style-span" face="Calibri"><span class="Apple-style-span" style="font-size: 14.666666984558105px;"><div class="WordSection1"><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">I have read it end to end. I would personally have not much else to say beyond this. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">1: This is a cartel, pure and simple. You create a walled garden, have five or so people deciding who can “practice” and who cannot. The same five people decide what the rules of the game are, so mid point, this can change as and when it suits them. Sooner or later, it shall be a requirement for anyone who wants to do business with government, the single largest market for the small scale business operator, to be registered. <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">2: The sector, and by the bills very wording is very fluid. Both in its definition and in its very sense. ICT permeates such a broad section of the world that it ideally should never exist as an independent sector. A CT scan is a computer in its most impirical definition, As such radiologists should be bound by these regulations. The same should apply to bribe taking NTSA officers who use “computers” and ICT to entrap drunk overspeeding motorists. They should as well be bound by the same rules governing ICT practice , yes? How about Mama mboga? Who receives and makes payments via Mpesa? Where exactly do you draw the line? Pilots flying computers laden in fuel? How do you decide a programmer should pay from earning from leveraging technology in creating software, and an MPESA agent using technology 100% of the time in their day to day earnings doesn’t? <o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri">3: I reserve my other comments to when I get to understand who exactly an ICT practitioner is.<o:p></o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:Calibri"><o:p> </o:p></span></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0cm 0cm 0cm"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">From: </span></b><span style="font-family:Calibri;color:black">kictanet <kictanet-bounces+arebacollins=gmail.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke> on behalf of Ali Hussein via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke><br><b>Reply-To: </b>KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke><br><b>Date: </b>Tuesday, 5 July 2016 8:50 pm<br><b>To: </b>Collins Areba <arebacollins@gmail.com><br><b>Cc: </b>Ali Hussein <ali@hussein.me.ke><br><b>Subject: </b>[kictanet] KENYA ICT PRACTITIONERS BILL NOW IN PARLIAMENT, PAY XXX PER YEAR FOR LICENSE TO PRACTICE<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Listers<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">I know some discussions threads are going on about this but I thought to bring more focus to this issue by starting a thread with the appropriate subject line.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">1. Who was aware of this? <o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">2. Who originated the Bill and how widely did they consult.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">3. How was the ICT professional body that gets to appoint Council members arrived at? (Council members dictate who can b registred/derigistered).<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">4. Who exactly is an ICT practitioner...given that ICT is an ever evolving field with jobs of the future still being created.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal">The floor is open.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div id="AppleMailSignature"><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b>Ali Hussein</b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b>Principal</b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b>Hussein & Associates</b><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica">+254 0713 601113 / 0770906375<o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:Helvetica"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Twitter: @AliHKassim<o:p></o:p></p><p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt">Skype: abu-jomo<o:p></o:p></p><p style="margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt">LinkedIn: <a href="http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim" target="_blank">http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim</a><o:p></o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">"Discovery consists in seeing what everyone else has seen and thinking what no one else has thought". ~ Albert Szent-Györgyi<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">Sent from my iPad<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Date: Tue, 5 Jul 2016 20:08:30 +0300<o:p></o:p></p></div><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">Subject: Re: [kictanet] FW: [nairobilug] Draft National ICT policy<br>From: <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>CC: <a href="mailto:wainaina@digitaltvafrica.com">wainaina@DigitalTVAfrica.com</a><br>To: <a href="mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com">ggithaiga@hotmail.com</a><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">This brings up the question of the Computer Society of Kenya (CSK) led by Waudo Siganga.....versus the new ICTAK led by Kamotho Njenga / Selasio Kiura.<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">What was the criteria for picking which of these and any others will basically regulate the ICT "profession"?<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">------------<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">ICTAK<o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana">"While I did not intend to comment on the contents of the Bill, I can't help but notice that one ICT Association of Kenya will have the arduous task of appointing five (out of nine) people to the Council that will regulate professionals (Section 4). Pray tell, who is this association?"</span><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal">CSK<o:p></o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">(on their website)<br><span style="font-size:19.5pt;font-family:Verdana;color:#2D2E2E">"The Computer Society of Kenya is the recognized association for Information, Communication and Technology industries and professionals in Kenya, attracting large and active membership from all levels of the IT industry and providing a wide range of services to its 6,000 + members."</span><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><o:p> </o:p></p><p class="MsoNormal">On Tuesday, July 5, 2016, Grace Mutung'u (Bomu) via kictanet <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Interesting developments Alex. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana">My initial reaction after reading the Bill is, questions questions questions: <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana">First of all, why would anyone conceive such an idea? To cure what problem? How will it better society as a whole? If indeed there was a problem to be addressed, couldn't the same have been dealt with in the policy process first? Assuming this Bill emanated from the Ministry, why would the Ministry undertake a policy review process and at the same time undertake a legal process to regulate the profession? And why is regulation of ICT professionals not even mentioned in the draft policy? We are always ready to engage and I am shocked to have learnt of the process so far in the day. Or did ICT professionals have a processes the outcome of which is this Bill? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Speaking of a profession, what is the ICT profession? I see the Bill has attempted a definition at section 2 but isn't ICTs the most dynamic and cross cutting "profession" we have? Was there a study done to support such a disruptive regulation of the profession? Are there other countries that regulate their geeks this much? So what informed this legislation? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Think of all the young people who eke a living from ICT related businesses. Why would anyone want to subject all these youth, together with those graduating from colleges and universities to one more hurdle before they can start working? Can't we leave it to the market to separate the very good practitioners from the average ones? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana">I do not understand the Kenyan obsession with ever regulating professions. What I know is that it is expensive for parents to perpetually pay fees before their (overgrown) children can finally get employment. It is also an additional cost to businesses as they have to foot the cost of compliance for the various professionals they employ or outsource. <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Finally, what are our legislative priorities in this sector? I would have thought the Data Protection framework is more urgent and maybe a Cyber Security one. While I did not intend to comment on the contents of the Bill, I can't help but notice that one ICT Association of Kenya will have the arduous task of appointing five (out of nine) people to the Council that will regulate professionals (Section 4). Pray tell, who is this association? <o:p></o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana"><o:p> </o:p></span></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:Verdana">Regards, <o:p></o:p></span></p></div></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">2016-07-05 14:03 GMT+03:00 Alex Watila via kictanet <kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke>:<o:p></o:p></p><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #CCCCCC 1.0pt;padding:0cm 0cm 0cm 6.0pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><p class="MsoNormal">FYI<br><br>-----Original Message-----<br>From: nairobi-gnu@googlegroups.com [mailto:nairobi-gnu@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Tim Schofield<br>Sent: Tuesday, July 5, 2016 11:37 AM<br>To: nairobi-gnu@googlegroups.com<br>Subject: Re: [nairobilug] Draft National ICT policy<br><br>This could be a crushing blow to Kenya's ICT industry. If the USA had such a law then so many of their major ICT companies would never have happened. To name but 2, neither Steve Jobs nor Bill Gates gained any formal ICT qualifications, in fact neither of them passed a degree in anything. Several of the leading Linux kernel developers have no formal ICT training.<br><br>Tim<br><br>On 4 July 2016 at 14:04, Tony White <tony.mzungu@gmail.com> wrote:<br>> ...and *this*:<br>><br>> <a href="http://kenyalaw.org/kl/fileadmin/pdfdownloads/bills/2016/InformationCo" target="_blank">http://kenyalaw.org/kl/fileadmin/pdfdownloads/bills/2016/InformationCo</a><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">> mmunicationTechnologyPractitioners_Bill_2016.pdf<br>><br>> Which was introduced in the National Assembly last week, which will<br>> rquire all ICT 'practitioners' to be licenced (annually!!) and<br>> registered, with examination of qualifications, and ongoing<br>> 'training'!!<br>><br>> Phew!!<br>><br>> Tony<br>><br>> On 04/07/2016, Ibrahim Ng'eno <eebrah@gmail.com> wrote:<br>>> Y'all have seen this[1], yes?<br>>><br>>> [1]<br>>> <a href="http://www.information.go.ke/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Draft-Nationa" target="_blank">http://www.information.go.ke/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Draft-Nationa</a><br>>> l-ICT-Policy-20June2016.pdf<br>>><br>>> -- Ibrahim<br>>><br>>> --<br>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google<br>>> Groups "Nairobi GNU/Linux User Group" group.<br>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,<br>>> send an email to nairobi-gnu+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br>>> To post to this group, send email to nairobi-gnu@googlegroups.com.<br>>> For more options, visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/optout" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br>>><br>><br>><br>> --<br>> Tony White<br>><br>> --<br>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nairobi GNU/Linux User Group" group.<br>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nairobi-gnu+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br>> To post to this group, send email to nairobi-gnu@googlegroups.com.<br>> For more options, visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/optout" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br><br><br><o:p></o:p></p></div></div><p class="MsoNormal">--<br>Course View Towers,<br>Plot 21 Yusuf Lule Road,<br>Kampala<br>T +256 (0) 312 314 418<br>M +256 (0) 752 963 325<br><a href="http://www.weberpafrica.com" target="_blank">www.weberpafrica.com</a><br>Twitter: @TimSchofield2<br>Blog: <a href="http://weberpafrica.blogspot.co.uk/" target="_blank">http://weberpafrica.blogspot.co.uk/</a><o:p></o:p></p><div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>--<br>You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Nairobi GNU/Linux User Group" group.<br>To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to nairobi-gnu+unsubscribe@googlegroups.com.<br>To post to this group, send email to nairobi-gnu@googlegroups.com.<br>For more options, visit <a href="https://groups.google.com/d/optout" target="_blank">https://groups.google.com/d/optout</a>.<br><br><br><br>_______________________________________________<br>kictanet mailing list<br>kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke<br><a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br><br>Unsubscribe or change your options at <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/nmutungu%40gmail.com" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/nmutungu%40gmail.com</a><br><br>The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br><br>KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br clear="all"><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><p class="MsoNormal">-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal">Grace L.N. Mutung'u <br>Nairobi Kenya<br>Skype: gracebomu<br>Twitter: @Bomu<br><br><<a href="http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu" target="_blank">http://www.diplointernetgovernance.org/profile/GraceMutungu</a>><o:p></o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal"><o:p> </o:p></p></div><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt">PGP ID : 0x33A3450F<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br>-- <o:p></o:p></p><div><div><div><div><div><div><div><p class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><img border="0" width="96" height="76" id="_x0000_i1025" src="https://docs.google.com/a/madeinkenya.org/uc?id=0BwZb4A-LDS-AUDRMWDFTSzIteXM&export=download"><o:p></o:p></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><b><i><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Arial;color:#999999;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm;background:#F1F1F1">Watch African TV live online and learn about </span></i></b><b><i><span style="font-family:Arial;color:#999999;border:none windowtext 1.0pt;padding:0cm;background:#F1F1F1">Digital Television policy, regulation and technology in Africa on issues relating to Consumers, Content and Coverage.</span></i></b><i><span style="font-family:Arial;color:#999999;background:#F1F1F1"> </span></i><o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></div></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal"><br><br>_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list <a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a> Unsubscribe or change your options at <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.com">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ggithaiga%40hotmail.com</a> The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<o:p></o:p></p></div></div></div></blockquote><blockquote style="margin-top:5.0pt;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><ATT00001><o:p></o:p></p></div></blockquote></div></div></div></div><p class="MsoNormal">_______________________________________________ kictanet mailing list kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet Unsubscribe or change your options at https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/arebacollins%40gmail.com The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development. KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<o:p></o:p></p></div></span></font></p></div>
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