<div dir="ltr">Ebele,<div>I'm still taking time to go through everything is your rather exhaustive reply but I do have a couple of questions:<br>From your participation guidelines:<br><ul><li>In addition, secure content is not supported and may not load.<br></li><li>Any data (e.g., proxy requests) or reporting we provide is deemed Facebook confidential information and cannot be used by you for any advertising purposes or shared with third parties.</li></ul><div><br></div></div><div><b>Why isn't secure content explicitly supported?</b></div><div><b>What is the rationale for the data and reporting condition?</b></div><div><br></div><div>Also while the while the FAQs on that page say different there's this condition:</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">Developer participation on the Free Basics Platform, including the information submitted with your application, is otherwise governed by our standard legal terms. Collectively, our standard legal terms and these supplemental terms are the entire agreement between you and Facebook relating to Free Basics, and any terms of use for your service will not apply to Facebook.</blockquote><div> </div><div>Those legal terms contain this:</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">For content that is covered by intellectual property rights, like photos and videos (IP content), you specifically give us the following permission, subject to your privacy andapplication settings: you grant us a non-exclusive, transferable, sub-licensable, royalty-free, worldwide license to use any IP content that you post on or in connection with Facebook (IP License). This IP License ends when you delete your IP content or your account unless your content has been shared with others, and they have not deleted it.</blockquote><div><br></div><div><b>So what takes precedence, the FAQ or legal terms? What does this mean for content producers who make a living of that content if Facebook chooses to exercise this right??</b></div><div><br></div><div>Finally Nanjira makes an important point in her post here(<a href="http://nanjira.com/2015/11/taking-free-basics-in-kenya-on-a-spin/">http://nanjira.com/2015/11/taking-free-basics-in-kenya-on-a-spin/</a>) about how the platform, in Kenya at least, seems set up for consumption. <b>Why is this? Was this an explicit decision or a side-effect of the chosen platforms? What is Facebook doing to encourage people to provide content to these sites?</b></div><div><br></div><div><font color="#141823" face="helvetica, arial, sans-serif"><span style="font-size:12px;line-height:16.08px">Looking forward to hearing your responses and I will be adding other questions as I go through your response(s).</span></font></div></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><div class="gmail_quote">On 3 December 2015 at 13:00, Barrack Otieno via kictanet <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p>Hi Ebele,</p>
<p>Many thanks for your responses. I have a somewhat dumb question, some might have been partly addressed.</p>
<p>1. What role does the facebook public policy team play in Africa?</p>
<p>2. What led to the creation of the team?</p>
<p>3. What are facebooks plans regarding promotion of local content and extending connectivity to marginalized areas?</p>
<p>4. What is Facebooks defination of Net Neutrality and what is its position on the same?</p>
<p>Please educate me</p>
<p>Thanks</p>
<div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Dec 3, 2015 9:56 AM, "Ebele Okobi via kictanet" <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"></div></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5">
<div dir="auto">
<div>Zero-rating plans are indeed fully compatible and offered along with paid plans-they are just one of many options, and per my response below, zero-rating that is paid for by operator must exist together with paid plans because if not, the operator can't
survive.<br>
<br>
<span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0);font-size:13pt">Ebele Okobi </span><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0);font-size:13pt">| Head of Public Policy, Africa</span><br>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">m. <a href="tel:+44%20(0)%20771%20156%201315" target="_blank">+44
(0) 771 156 1315</a></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><font color="#000000"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><a>10
Brock Street | London</a> | NW1 3FG<u></u><u></u></span></font></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="margin:0cm 0cm 0.0001pt"><a href="mailto:ebeleokobi@fb.com" style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)" target="_blank"><font color="#000000">ebeleokobi@fb.com</font></a></p>
<div><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
</span></div>
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<span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><img alt="6F376569-CC77-422B-BAD3-794055B1E02B" height="43"></span></div>
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<div><br>
On Dec 3, 2015, at 5:57 AM, waudo siganga via kictanet <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<div>
<div style="font-family:Arial;font-size:medium" dir="ltr">
<div>
<div>
<div>A quick one for Kivuva, Hussein, Ebele - Please clarify is this Zero-rating incompatible with, i.e. mutually exclusive to paid services? Why cant they operate TOGETHER. </div>
<div>Waudo </div>
<div> </div>
<div>On Thu, Dec 3, 2015, at 01:52 AM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:</div>
<blockquote type="cite">
<p dir="ltr">There is a good satirical letter from Max, Zuckerberg's daughter on giving people free access to Facebook as if it was water or electricity:
<a href="https://urldefense.proofpoint.com/v2/url?u=http-3A__www.theregister.co.uk_2015_12_02_max-5Fzuckerberg-5Freply-5Fletter_&d=CwMCAw&c=5VD0RTtNlTh3ycd41b3MUw&r=ArvepG4_wcNu_X9xi3nb_Xa9WsGLVfmK6mwPdVONOTE&m=1ofvsWEAoehiEhB-dCxh1KgaGPcRfqQJtXIk2EWLIdY&s=sTudx9RKEpMTIDrooq2cQ0jfcJSIgIeFLOoxc6FzFHg&e=" target="_blank">
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/12/02/max_zuckerberg_reply_letter/</a>,</p>
<div>On Dec 3, 2015 1:05 AM, <a href="mailto:Kivuva@transworldafrica.com" target="_blank">
Kivuva@transworldafrica.com</a> wrote:
<blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<p dir="ltr">Dr. Waudo, your questions are valid, and very well structured. This is what has been asked for some years now. And the idea of asking Facebook to come over is for them to school us too on their view of net neutrality.</p>
<p dir="ltr">But find my attempt inline:</p>
<p dir="ltr">On Dec 2, 2015 6:48 PM, "waudo siganga" <<a href="mailto:emailsignet@mailcan.com" target="_blank">emailsignet@mailcan.com</a>> wrote:<br>
><br>
> Hi Kivuva/Hussein. I need a little more enlightenment:<br>
> <br>
> 1. Is the "Zero-Rating" issue a debate or has it already been concluded that it is a bad thing? There is a hint that supporting it may leave one in not very good standing..</p>
<p dir="ltr">This has not been agreed upon. We would probably not get an answer to whether it is good or bad. But some countries have determined and outlawed zero rating, some analyze zero rating requests on case by case basis, and other have approved zero
rating.</p>
<p dir="ltr">> 2. According to Kivuva's well-written article "Zero rating infringes on fundamental human rights by denying users access to the Internet". Are other service providers, including those offering "full" Internet Access at a fee, stopped or hindered
from offering their services when some companies offer the zero-rating? Can both forms operate at the same time?</p>
<p dir="ltr">This is a great question. And it is probably the main selling point for zero rating. To answer the question, if you have a data package, you can access the Internet outside the zero rated area. I probably like the idea. But what are the root cause
for using zero rating? Can we make the Internet affordable?</p>
<p dir="ltr">> 3. In Q2 above I have "full" in quotes because in my use of Internet I am yet to come across a truly "neutral Internet" i.e. sometimes I try to access certain websites or services and you are unable as you get a message that you cannot access
that site/service from your country, meaning many services providers already practise packet filtering.</p>
<p dir="ltr">True. There are many ways in which net neutrality is infringed, and there are different legislation from country to country on those aspects. The one that has affected us more is bandwidth trotting, especially of bit torrent traffic. An ISP advertises
unlimited Internet access at $$$, then when you start using more resources than they had anticipated, they tighten your pipe. Bandwidth trotting and protocol blocking was banned by EU in 2014. Mobile carriers used to block access to Skype because it hurts
voice, calling, and text-messaging revenue.</p>
<p dir="ltr">So part of why we have been calling for a Net Neutrality law in Kenya is to protect the consumer, and also have a stand. Currently, the ISP can do whatever they want. The model to adopt is upto the community.</p>
<p dir="ltr">> 4. Hussein gives certain characteristics of a "market" but probably leaves out a very critical one: Choice. The best market is the one where ALL service providers are given the opportunity to offer their services and consumers are left to choose.
At the end of the day it is the consumers that decide which companies and services survive and which wilt along the way. Why choose for the consumer beforehand by barring certain services or business models?</p>
<p dir="ltr">Be careful before you imprison yourself with your own words :). In the same breath of choice, who decided which websites a consumer should have access to? Why choose for the consumer beforehand? :) Why limit consumer choice?</p>
<p dir="ltr">At another level, consumers are not usually very knowledgeable in what they want, or even what is good for a country. I'm ready to bet that if one country allows zero rating, and another country provides reliable affordable broadband, then the
one with affordable broadband will experience faster economic growth. This is just an hypothesis.</p>
<p dir="ltr">> 5. A couple of years ago the cost and affordability of Internet access was a key ICT public policy issue. We said it was a major impediment to the spread of Internet use. How do we reconcile that with opposition to free (ok "free" as Hussein
corrected me) services even if they are only offering a slice of what an open Internet offers.</p>
<p dir="ltr">Cost and access are still very relevant especially in our region of the world. That was why the IGF theme was "connecting the next billion." And there are very great suggestions thrown around on how to reduce the cost. Licensing, competition, usf,
infrastructure sharing, taxes,...... We are really disadvantaged when it comes to utilising the great benefits of the Internet. Now what happens when we shrink that space more?</p>
<p dir="ltr">> <br>
> On a lighter note these days I am very happy with Facebook especially the Groups, as I get to know what is going on in the village. But I have been accessing them using a paid service perhaps I can save a few shillings if I got to know how to connect for
free.</p>
<p dir="ltr">And Facebook likes these case studies. I heard them happily say how they are helping women chamas organise themselves, and also organise civil activism to foster democracy in places like Myanmar. Well, I want that too :-)</p>
<p dir="ltr">> <br>
> I know Kivuva and Hussein have had extensive opportunity to study this area of Zero-Rating and also to listen o experts so I apologize in advance if my questions do not sound sophisticated.<br>
> <br>
> Kind Regards,<br>
> Waudo<br>
> <br>
> On Wed, Dec 2, 2015, at 05:07 PM, Mwendwa Kivuva wrote:<br>
>><br>
>> We are having the most vibrant debate on Net Neutrality on the list in a long while. Thanks for all contributors, and GG for initiating this timely discussion. It's exciting to see many people interested with the zero rating debate. I'm sure Ebele and Akua
from Facebook are fascinated by the dynamism of this group. Thank you Ebele and Akua for graciously joining this debate.<br>
>><br>
>> I'll keep my opinions to myself and only ask questions.<br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> 1. Does Facebook support Net Neutrality?<br>
>><br>
>> 2. Does Facebook's zero rating contravene net neutrality principle?<br>
>><br>
>> 3. Will Facebook take "zero rated services" to areas without any connectivity infrastructure? <br>
>><br>
>> 4. Will Facebook zero rated services reach all the people, even those with feature phones? Does fb have non app based Free basics?. What percentage of your target market has access to smart phones?<br>
>><br>
>> 5. Which network operators does Facebook work with? Are all ISPs welcomed to the party?<br>
>><br>
>> 6. Will free basics help reduce the cost of internet access?<br>
>><br>
>> 7. Does Facebook pay ISPs to offer the "walled garden" to end users?<br>
>><br>
>> 8. Why is Facebook running campaigns for "free basics" in a way to suggest that it is giving free access to the internet? Is FB and a few vanilla websites the Internet?<br>
>><br>
>> 9. Facebook is considered affluent. Would it consider providing free internet to everyone?<br>
>><br>
>> 10. Is free basics bridging the digital divide or creating confusion of those who cannot differentiate between Facebook and the Internet? Is Facebook keen that users from the developing world have access to the whole wealth of knowledge and information that
the Internet provides? <br>
>><br>
>> <br>
>><br>
>> Sincerely,<br>
>><br>
>> Mwendwa Kivuva</p>
</blockquote>
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KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><div><br></div>-- <br><div class="gmail_signature"><div dir="ltr"><div><div dir="ltr">Regards,<br><br><table cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="100%" style="font-family:verdana;font-size:11px;color:rgb(51,61,71)"><tbody><tr><td height="20" valign="bottom"><font size="2.5">Sidney Ochieng</font></td></tr><tr><td height="15" valign="bottom"><br></td></tr><tr><td height="15" valign="middle"><br></td></tr><tr><td height="25" valign="bottom"></td></tr><tr><td height="20" valign="middle"><strong>Skype:</strong> sidney.ochieng | <strong>Twitter:</strong> @princelySid | <b>Website: </b><a href="http://sidneyochieng.co.ke" target="_blank">http://sidneyochieng.co.ke</a></td></tr><tr><td valign="bottom" height="35"><br></td></tr></tbody></table></div></div></div></div>
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