<div dir="ltr">@Walubengo mwalimu, here is a postulate that you can give your students to research.<div><br></div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0px 0px 0px 0.8ex;border-left-width:1px;border-left-color:rgb(204,204,204);border-left-style:solid;padding-left:1ex">
<b>Given enough time, any software discussion eventually degenerates into an open source vs closed source argument</b></blockquote></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Wed, Apr 30, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Walubengo J via kictanet <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">Well said Ngigi,<br>
<br>
Being a supporter of Open-Source (eg Linux) does not mean you cannot use Closed-Source (e.g. Microsoft). As an academic, I actually use and teach both :-) However, the Open-source products tend to give students more freedom to "hack" in the sense that they can drill deeper into the software constructs/code - and hence be in a better position to create knew knowledge/customized solutions.<br>
<br>
Put bluntly, one approach gives you a constant supply of "fish" while the other teaches you how to fish. In life, you probably need both, but it is always better to be able to fish since one day, the fish supplier may not show up :-)<br>
<br>
walu.<br>
<br>
--------------------------------------------<br>
On Wed, 4/30/14, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
Subject: Re: [kictanet] U.S.: Stop using Internet Explorer until security holes are fixed<br>
To: <a href="mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com">jwalu@yahoo.com</a><br>
Cc: "KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions" <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>><br>
Date: Wednesday, April 30, 2014, 12:26 AM<br>
<div><div class="h5"><br>
Mark, Dennis,<br>
<br>
Seems that I am<br>
answering to like minded listers here so I might as well<br>
combine my answer on this.<br>
<br>
I haven't said or even implied that<br>
open source is the answer to all ills, but IMO, it helps a<br>
lot in terms of code audit. Trying to audit software without<br>
access to source code is akin to an account audit without<br>
source documents.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Infact, auditing without source documents<br>
is what we normally call forensic audit. You can finally get<br>
at the truth, but everything will be that much harder.<br>
<br>
Secondly. open source is<br>
not a Religion! In technology and/or academia, you can be<br>
both 'Christian' and/or 'Muslim' at the same<br>
time. It doesn't mean because someone is a proponent of<br>
open source that he/she is anathema to using other<br>
technologies non open source technologies.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Finally, how someone chooses to make<br>
a living, is a personal choice and I think we ought to<br>
respectfully refrain from commenting on such and discuss<br>
technology issues, which I believe is what this forum is<br>
for.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue,<br>
Apr 29, 2014 at 10:14 PM, Mark Mwangi via kictanet <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
I also don't think open sourcing is<br>
the solution to all our ills. I mean its nice if I can keep<br>
tabs on the source code of all my apps but it doesn't<br>
make it useful or effective. The US is the biggest spender<br>
of technology as far as we know and if there is anyone with<br>
the skill of resources to fully audit all the source code<br>
running their systems its them.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
They are however routinely<br>
infiltrated by the Chinese or so they claim. China at some<br>
point managed to redirect most of the webs traffic through<br>
their servers.<br>
<br>
My<br>
point is having access to the source code doesn't<br>
guarantee it will be audited and if audited that the flaws<br>
will be found. Windows XP is still leaking with flaws 13<br>
years on. I am sure if Ubuntu had the same install base it<br>
would be hemorrhaging as well.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 9:31 PM,<br>
Dennis Kioko via kictanet <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The second point means that people<br>
still rely on a number of closed source applications even on<br>
open source systems. Google Chrome is a closed source<br>
distribution based on the Chromium Open source app, same way<br>
Android is based on the Android Open Source Project (which<br>
excludes the apps you mostly use). <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
I have also seen a number of<br>
advisories for open source users to verify the authenticity<br>
of their installations after the Russians and others started<br>
inserting compromised open source packages in distributions.<br>
I doubt many verify what they download. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Then, those who use open<br>
source solutions here, do you distribute open source<br>
solutions to your customers too ie, if you wrote an app with<br>
an open source language, do you supply it alongside source<br>
code. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Again, if people want<br>
anything from your computers, they will probably get it,<br>
especially if you are online, see a related discussion<br>
here <a href="http://www.quora.com/Anonymity/What-are-the-best-ways-to-leak-information-anonymously-on-the-Internet-today" target="_blank">http://www.quora.com/Anonymity/What-are-the-best-ways-to-leak-information-anonymously-on-the-Internet-today</a> <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Lastly, someone politely<br>
pointed me to Mr. Ikua's LinkedIn profile which<br>
indicates he is a consultant in the implementation of closed<br>
sourced solutions for the government of Kenya. As taxpayers,<br>
should we be worried, Mr. Ikua? <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Conclusion. Any software<br>
you use largely faces the same issues. In 2014, the Open<br>
source versus Closed Source debate shouldn't be based on<br>
Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt. <br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On<br>
Tuesday, 29 April 2014, Ngigi Waithaka <<a href="mailto:ngigi@at.co.ke">ngigi@at.co.ke</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 8:09 PM,<br>
Dennis Kioko <<a href="mailto:dmbuvi@gmail.com">dmbuvi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
What<br>
stops the NSA from hiring independent devs to contribute to<br>
open source code?<br>
No one, they could hire any<br>
developer to contribute to open source code, same way no one<br>
would stop NSA from hiring a developer to go work at<br>
Microsoft. At least if they hire someone to work on open<br>
source code, I could always review their work if I deemed it<br>
necessary.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
But then<br>
again, why hire the individual developer, when you can pay<br>
off the whole company to put in back doors for<br>
you?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Does open source run in a vacuum? No. We<br>
still download closed sourced Chrome, Flash, Java etc to run<br>
on our open source installations. Do these have backdoors?<br>
<br>
I don't get the point of<br>
this apart maybe from mentioning that Chrome & Java are<br>
open source...<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
How many people actually take the time to<br>
go through open source code looking for bugs and backdoors?<br>
<br>
Well, how many engineers does<br>
Google, Facebook, Twitter, Yahoo, WhatsApp have? Most of<br>
these firms ran on open source stacks and are leading<br>
contributors to open source technologies. Put IBM, Oracle<br>
and recently Microsoft that has started to release open<br>
source code to that list as well.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 16:52<br>
PM, Ngigi Waithaka via kictanet <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Mark,<br>
<br>
What open source<br>
gives you is the freedom and choice to check for yourself<br>
whether the code is secure or not. While it is not a<br>
guarantee, at least it puts the onus on you.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
If we are to discuss<br>
security & NSA there are very many commercial<br>
cryptography applications that have long been suspected of<br>
having backdoors that would be of use to certain<br>
governments. Last I chceked NSA pays an annual retainer<br>
running into hundreds of millions to ensure commercial<br>
vendors introduce backdoors they can use. On top of that,<br>
remember when US firms couldn't export cryptography that<br>
used more than 1024 bits?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
The problem with<br>
closed source, you have no liberty to check for yourself.<br>
You just hope!<br>
<br>
Back<br>
to OpenSSL; yes it had a serious bug for long, and I am sure<br>
not the last one, but if you look at how the HeartBleed bug<br>
came to be discovered and fixed, it was the openness that<br>
made this possible.<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Coming closer home,<br>
and regarding our recently implemented PKI Infrastructure by<br>
Koreans, how many would bet we have similar bugs in that<br>
implementation? How many would bet that no security audit<br>
was done based on the sources and that there is no guarantee<br>
of a backdoor in the system?<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Again, we can only<br>
hope!<br>
<br>
Regards<br>
<br>
<br>
On Tue, Apr 29, 2014 at 4:21 PM,<br>
Mark Mwangi via kictanet <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>><br>
wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Again as Dennis said,<br>
there are loopholes even in open source software<br>
and so that argument is moot. If governments<br>
such as the Canadian one<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
with practically unlimited resources couldnt find the holes<br>
then what<br>
good is making the code open<br>
source?<br>
<br>
Open sourcing<br>
doesn't make the code more secure by virtue of the<br>
action.<br>
<br>
On Tue, Apr 29,<br>
2014 at 3:49 PM, Evans Ikua via kictanet<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
> Thats not the issue. There is no software<br>
that is absolutely secure, open or<br>
><br>
closed source. The issue is being able to get into the code<br>
and find out if<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
> there are backdoors where someone else is snooping on<br>
your systems and data,<br>
> especially if<br>
you are a Government.<br>
><br>
><br>
> On Tue, Apr 29, 2014<br>
at 3:20 PM, Dennis Kioko <<a href="mailto:dmbuvi@gmail.com">dmbuvi@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
>><br>
>> But Mr. Ikua,<br>
>> The equally open source software known<br>
as OpenSSL had a glaring hole for<br>
>><br>
years, which some suspect the US government might have known<br>
about too.<br>
>><br>
>><br>
For as long as we have had software, so have we had software<br>
bugs, be it<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
>> open, closed or ajar :-)<br>
>><br>
>><br>
>> On Tuesday, 29 April 2014, Evans Ikua<br>
via kictanet<br>
>> <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
>>><br>
>>> Well<br>
put Walu. This is the strategic dilemma of using closed<br>
source<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
>>> proprietary software. I am sure the lessons<br>
that Russia learns from this<br>
>>><br>
will inform other governments that you are only as free as<br>
the technology<br>
>>> that you use.<br>
>>><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
>>> Evans<br>
>>><br>
>>><br>
>>> On<br>
Mon, Apr 28, 2014 at 7:27 PM, Walubengo J via kictanet<br>
>>> <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> wrote:<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ####snip#####<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> The United<br>
States Computer Emergency Readiness Team, a part of<br>
Homeland<br>
>>>> Security known as<br>
US-CERT, said in an advisory released on Monday morning<br>
>>>> that the vulnerability in<br>
versions 6 to 11 of Internet Explorer could lead<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
>>>> to "the complete compromise" of<br>
an affected system.<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> read more<br>
>>>><br>
>>>><br>
>>>> <a href="http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/technology/chi-microsoft-explorer-security-flaws-20140428,0,4797833.story" target="_blank">http://www.chicagotribune.com/business/technology/chi-microsoft-explorer-security-flaws-20140428,0,4797833.story</a><br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> ########snip#####<br>
>>>><br>
>>>> Funny - I keep feeling that<br>
the US Gov KNEW about this hole for many<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
--<br>
<br>
<br>
Regards,<br>
<br>
<br>
<br>
Waithaka<br>
</div></div> NgigiChief Executive Officer<br>
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</div><div><div class="h5"> --<br>
with Regards:<br>
<a href="http://blog.denniskioko.com" target="_blank">blog.denniskioko.com</a><br>
<br>
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