<div dir="ltr"><div>Many thanks GG,<br><br></div>This is an emerging subject area that requires collaboration from our learned friends across the region. As it is we dont have a well established legal system on the continent to deal with cross border dispute resolution which forces us to resolve most our domain name related issues through WIPO. Two years ago i heard of an African initiative by lawyers to establish an institution that would tackle domain related issues. Can Victor Kapiyo or Grace Bomu appraise us on this if they are in the know? , i suppose we would need an African court for that purpose which would equally mean a set of laws or convention, like the one we are discussing to provide the basis of Judgement. Borrowing Ali's words a crime online is similar to a crime offline and should be subjected to due jurisprudence on merit. I think additional punishment might mean community service as well, we live that to the Judges ours is to agree on the basis of the judgements which is the law.<br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Nov 28, 2013 at 4:53 AM, Ali Hussein <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke" target="_blank">ali@hussein.me.ke</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="auto"><div>Grace and listers</div><div><br></div><div>Firstly let us address the issue of Double Criminality. According to Wikipedia:-</div>
<div><br></div><div><p style="margin:0.4em 0px 0.5em"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><b>Double criminality</b> (also known as <b>dual criminality</b>) is a requirement in the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extradition" title="Extradition" style="text-decoration:none;background-image:none" target="_blank">extradition</a> law of many countries. It states that a suspect can be extradited from one country to stand trial for breaking a second country's laws <i>only</i> when a similar law exists in the extraditing country.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4em 0px 0.5em"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">For example, if Country A has no laws against <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blasphemy" title="Blasphemy" style="text-decoration:none;background-image:none" target="_blank">blasphemy</a>, double criminality could prevent a suspect being extradited from Country A to face blasphemy charges in another country.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4em 0px 0.5em"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></p><p style="margin:0.4em 0px 0.5em"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">This is of course a double edged sword. The implication here on harmonization of regional laws is a red flag. What may be kosher in Zimbabwe may not pass muster in Kenya. I get the feeing here that the interest of the Citizenry is secondary to Government. I'm a strong proponent of less Government not more.</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4em 0px 0.5em"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">On the issue of additional punishment. I sometimes get the feeling that we think human behavior is different online as opposed to offline. Fraud is fraud whether off or online. Impersonation (as opposed to anonymity) is still impersonation and depending on why you are impersonating someone it still is a crime. </span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4em 0px 0.5em"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">I honestly get confused on some of these issues. It's like saying we will have separate laws when you break the law at home, at work or in the bus!! Stealing is stealing, whether offline or online!! Murder is murder whether on the bus or in space!!</span></p>
<p style="margin:0.4em 0px 0.5em"><span style="background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Lets simplify the penal code so that we don't have to create new laws every time a new medium of communication comes!</span></p><br>
<div><span>Ali Hussein</span></div><div><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><a href="tel:%2B254%200770%20906375" value="+254770906375" target="_blank">+254 0770 906375</a> / <a href="tel:0713%20601113" value="+254713601113" target="_blank">0713 601113</a></div>
<div><span><br></span></div><div>"I fear the day technology will surpass human interaction. The world will have a generation of idiots". ~ Albert Einstein</div><div><span><br></span></div><span>Sent from my iPad</span></div>
<div><div class="h5"><div><br>On Nov 28, 2013, at 12:56 AM, Grace Githaiga <<a href="mailto:ggithaiga@hotmail.com" target="_blank">ggithaiga@hotmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div>
<div dir="ltr">Good morning Listers<div><br></div><div>Today is day 4 and our <b style="line-height:16.5pt;font-size:12pt">focus is on PROMOTING CYBERSECURITY AND COMBATING
CYBERCRIME. </b><span style="line-height:16.5pt;font-size:12pt">We raise two questions:</span></div><div><span style="line-height:22px"><b><br></b></span><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.5pt;background-repeat:initial initial">
<u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.5pt;background-repeat:initial initial"> <b>Article III – 14: Harmonization</b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.5pt;background-repeat:initial initial"><i>1) Member States have to undertake necessary measures to
ensure that the legislative measures and / or regulations adopted to fight
against cybercrime enhance the possibility of regional harmonization of these
measures and respect the principle of double criminality.</i><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.5pt;background-repeat:initial initial"><b><br></b></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.5pt;background-repeat:initial initial"><font color="#ac193d"><b>Question</b>:</font> <b>What is the
principle of double criminality here?</b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.5pt;background-repeat:initial initial"><b> </b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.5pt;background-repeat:initial initial"><b>Section II: Other penal sanctions</b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.5pt;background-repeat:initial initial"> <b>Article III – 48</b><u></u><u></u></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.5pt;background-repeat:initial initial"><i>Each Member State of the African Union have to take
necessary legislative measures to ensure that, in the case of conviction for an
offense committed by means of digital communication facility, the competent
jurisdiction or the judge handling the case gives a ruling imposing additional
punishment.</i><u></u><u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.5pt;background-repeat:initial initial"><i><br></i></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:16.5pt;background-repeat:initial initial"><b><font color="#ac193d">Question:</font><span> </span></b> <b>What is the interpretation of additional punishment?
Is this not granting of absolute powers to judges?</b><u></u><u></u></p><div><br></div><div>We are almost getting there! Like Walu has reminded us, this is our opportunity to contribute and shape this debate. Over to you!</div>
<div><br></div><div>A great day to you all.</div><div>Rgds</div><div>GG</div></div> </div>
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<br></blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br>Barrack O. Otieno<div>+254721325277</div><div>+254-20-2498789<br>Skype: barrack.otieno</div><div><a href="http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/" target="_blank">http://www.otienobarrack.me.ke/</a>
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