<div dir="ltr">That is exactly my point Rad.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:48 PM, Rad! <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:conradakunga@gmail.com" target="_blank">conradakunga@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div dir="ltr">Gentlemen, lets not lose sight of the forest for the trees. Open source or proprietary software in the MUCH larger scheme of the core issue of accountability is neither here nor there i think.</div>
<div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote"><div><div class="h5">On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:16 PM, Evans Ikua <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:ikua.evans@gmail.com" target="_blank">ikua.evans@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br></div>
</div><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div class="h5">
<div dir="ltr">I see. You are looking at the technology side of things. Still we can have that discussion outside this thread. I think the point here was about the processes that lead to openness. regardless of the technology deployed. If that info was given to me in a proprietary platform, I would still happily consume it. <br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 4:12 PM, S.M. Muraya <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:murigi.muraya@gmail.com" target="_blank">murigi.muraya@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p>Sawa. Mine is about "practicals" about "opening information" to the Kenyan public :=)</p><div><div>
<div>
<div>
<div class="gmail_quote">On May 10, 2013 4:04 PM, "Evans Ikua" <<a href="mailto:ikua.evans@gmail.com" target="_blank">ikua.evans@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div dir="ltr"><div>Hey Sam, lets not muddy the waters here! We can always start another thread and thrash out those issues of FOSS vs proprietary.<br><br></div>My point was, just as Rad is concerned about the spending of public resources and accountability from one perspective, I am also concerned about the same from my own perspective. He has right, and I have the right to get this information. As he rightly puts it, this kind of openness can go a long way to eradicate corruption and wastage. Just like I would like to know how much the Government spends on ball pens and what brands they buy. I remember Dr Ndemo telling us in a meeting some time back that the Government buys a Bic ball pen for Ksh 200. As a tax payer and a stakeholder in this country being a citizen, I need to know how the Government spends my money.<br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 3:54 PM, S.M. Muraya <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:murigi.muraya@gmail.com" target="_blank">murigi.muraya@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><p>Evans,</p>
<p>Assuming 1 million Kenyans are in local and government offices weekly, how much citizen time is wasted seeking updates which could be provided over email or CRM web portals?</p>
<p>Has deployment of "free" Linux Mail Servers in many .<a href="http://go.ke" target="_blank">go.ke</a> offices improved communications with the general public?</p>
<p>If in some cases proprietary software provides more productivity, than FOSS, for thousands of internal end users who serve millions of Kenyans, should we still ignore it?</p>
<p>When was the first/last time you got an email or sms to collect some documents or permits you applied for in a sirikali org?</p>
<p>Let us plan for some demos...</p>
<p>Sugar CRM (a very good open source CRM) + a Web Browser</p>
<p>vs. </p>
<p>Dynamics CRM + MS Outlook.</p>
<p>Yes? No?</p>
<div class="gmail_quote"><div><div>On May 10, 2013 2:13 PM, "Evans Ikua" <<a href="mailto:ikua.evans@gmail.com" target="_blank">ikua.evans@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br type="attribution"></div></div>
<blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div>
<div dir="ltr">You are very right Rad and I concur with you. I would for instance want to know how much money the Government pays in software licenses annually, and for which applications.<br></div><div class="gmail_extra">
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Fri, May 10, 2013 at 1:28 PM, Rad! <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:conradakunga@gmail.com" target="_blank">conradakunga@gmail.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<font><span style="line-height:normal;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">It is debatable whether the initiative lived at all.</span></font><div><font><span style="line-height:normal;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br>
</span></font></div><div><font><span style="line-height:normal;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">As it stands the data on that portal is completely dependent on the benevolence of bureaucrats and politicians, and as long as that is the case it is difficult for it to succeed.</span></font></div>
<div><font><span style="line-height:normal;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></font></div><div><font><span style="line-height:normal;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Ideally there should be legislation to compel all government bodies to open up their data on request from the citizens. See Finland for a good example. They credit openness of information as a key factor of low levels of corruption.</span></font></div>
<div><font><span style="line-height:normal;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></font></div><div><font><span style="line-height:normal;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">For example I requested a dataset on </span></font></div>
<div><font><span style="line-height:normal;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">1) Who travelled to London at public expense for the Olympics</span></font></div><div><font><span style="line-height:normal;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">2) What was the total expenditure across the board for Kenya's delegation - travel, accommodation, per diems, etc</span></font></div>
<div><font><span style="line-height:normal;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></font></div><div><font><span style="line-height:normal;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">The response was "let me try to ask". Unsurprisingly, that was the last I heard of it.</span></font></div>
<div><font><span style="line-height:normal;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)"><br></span></font></div><div><font><span style="line-height:normal;background-color:rgba(255,255,255,0)">Until we plug that fundamental flaw this initiative will remain a textbook effort</span></font></div>
<div><div>
<br>On Friday, May 10, 2013, Walubengo J wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex"><div><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif">
Just wondering,<br><br>In the likely departure of both PS Ndemo and CEO Paul Kukubo, I wonder how much TTL (time to live) there is for our <a href="https://opendata.go.ke/" target="_blank">https://opendata.go.ke/</a> initiative. <br>
<br>Contrast below:<br>~~~~<br><div><div>Today, as he heads to Austin, Texas, for a <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2013/05/08/president-obama-headed-austin-heres-why" target="_blank">Middle Class Jobs and Opportunity Tour</a>, President Obama signed an <a href="http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2013/05/09/executive-order-making-open-and-machine-readable-new-default-government-" target="_blank">Executive Order</a>
directing historic steps to make government-held data more accessible
to the public and to entrepreneurs and others as fuel for innovation and
economic growth. The Executive Order declares that information is a
valuable resource and strategic asset for the Nation. We couldn’t agree
more.</div><div><br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif">
</div><div><a href="http://wh.gov/J5tb" target="_blank">http://wh.gov/J5tb</a></div><div><br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif">
~~~~</div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif"><br></div><div style="font-style:normal;font-size:16px;background-color:transparent;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif">
walu.<br></div></div></div></div></blockquote>
</div></div><br>_______________________________________________<br>
kictanet mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
<br>
Unsubscribe or change your options at <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ikua.evans%40gmail.com" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/ikua.evans%40gmail.com</a><br>
<br>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
<br>
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><b>----------------------------------------------------<br>Kind Regards,<br>Evans Ikua,</b><br><a href="http://lanetconsulting.com" target="_blank">lanetconsulting.com</a>,<br>
<a href="http://lpi-eastafrica.org" target="_blank">lpi-eastafrica.org</a>,<br><a href="http://ict-innovation.fossfa.net" target="_blank">ict-innovation.fossfa.net</a>,<br>Skype: @ikuae<br>Cell: <a href="tel:%2B254-722-955831" value="+254722955831" target="_blank">+254-722-955831</a><br>
</div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
kictanet mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
<br></div></div>
Unsubscribe or change your options at <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/murigi.muraya%40gmail.com" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/murigi.muraya%40gmail.com</a><div>
<br>
<br>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
<br>
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
</div></blockquote></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><b>----------------------------------------------------<br>Kind Regards,<br>Evans Ikua,</b><br><a href="http://lanetconsulting.com" target="_blank">lanetconsulting.com</a>,<br>
<a href="http://lpi-eastafrica.org" target="_blank">lpi-eastafrica.org</a>,<br><a href="http://ict-innovation.fossfa.net" target="_blank">ict-innovation.fossfa.net</a>,<br>Skype: @ikuae<br>Cell: <a href="tel:%2B254-722-955831" value="+254722955831" target="_blank">+254-722-955831</a><br>
</div>
</blockquote></div>
</div></div></div></div></blockquote></div><div><div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><b>----------------------------------------------------<br>Kind Regards,<br>Evans Ikua,</b><br><a href="http://lanetconsulting.com" target="_blank">lanetconsulting.com</a>,<br>
<a href="http://lpi-eastafrica.org" target="_blank">lpi-eastafrica.org</a>,<br><a href="http://ict-innovation.fossfa.net" target="_blank">ict-innovation.fossfa.net</a>,<br>Skype: @ikuae<br>Cell: <a href="tel:%2B254-722-955831" value="+254722955831" target="_blank">+254-722-955831</a><br>
</div></div></div>
<br>_______________________________________________<br>
kictanet mailing list<br>
<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a><br>
<a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/listinfo/kictanet</a><br>
<br></div></div>
Unsubscribe or change your options at <a href="https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/conradakunga%40gmail.com" target="_blank">https://lists.kictanet.or.ke/mailman/options/kictanet/conradakunga%40gmail.com</a><div class="im">
<br>
<br>
The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
<br>
KICTANetiquette : Adhere to the same standards of acceptable behaviors online that you follow in real life: respect people's times and bandwidth, share knowledge, don't flame or abuse or personalize, respect privacy, do not spam, do not market your wares or qualifications.<br>
</div></blockquote></div><br></div>
</blockquote></div><br><br clear="all"><br>-- <br><b>----------------------------------------------------<br>Kind Regards,<br>Evans Ikua,</b><br><a href="http://lanetconsulting.com" target="_blank">lanetconsulting.com</a>,<br>
<a href="http://lpi-eastafrica.org" target="_blank">lpi-eastafrica.org</a>,<br><a href="http://ict-innovation.fossfa.net" target="_blank">ict-innovation.fossfa.net</a>,<br>Skype: @ikuae<br>Cell: +254-722-955831<br>
</div>