<html><head><meta http-equiv="content-type" content="text/html; charset=utf-8"></head><body dir="auto"><div>Grace</div><div><br></div><div>Asante. This is very informative. Is there a case to protect Startups in Kenya where this is concerned? </div><div><br></div><div>Any comments from the government side? Industry reps? <br><br><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">Ali Hussein</span></div><div><span style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd</span></div><div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd</div></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; "><br></div><div style="font-family: Helvetica; font-size: medium; -webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.296875); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); -webkit-text-size-adjust: auto; ">+254 713 601113</div><div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); "><br></span></div><div><span style="-webkit-tap-highlight-color: rgba(26, 26, 26, 0.292969); -webkit-composition-fill-color: rgba(175, 192, 227, 0.230469); -webkit-composition-frame-color: rgba(77, 128, 180, 0.230469); ">"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb</span></div><div><br></div>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On May 10, 2013, at 2:23 PM, "Grace Mutung'u (Bomu)" <<a href="mailto:nmutungu@gmail.com">nmutungu@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br><br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">As for e-services, its already been decided that subscription services over satellite are taxable. See Stanbic Bank versus KRA. Stanbic was receiving financial information from Reuters, and the court found that they should have been paying withholding tax for these online services. <a href="http://kenyalaw.org/CaseSearch/view_preview1.php?link=43481609468128202979885">http://kenyalaw.org/CaseSearch/view_preview1.php?link=43481609468128202979885</a> <br>
</div><div class="gmail_extra"><br><br><div class="gmail_quote">2013/5/10 Walubengo J <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jwalu@yahoo.com</a>></span><br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div><div style="font-size:12pt;font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif">eCommerce sales tax is a complex and emerging issue even in developed economies. Quick challenge examples include:<br><br>1. How do you tax a digital good - given that KRA/Customs guys are used to "physically inspecting" before taxing. Say I pay for a music download from Safaricom/Google/Apple app_store, or buy a digital book from <a href="http://amazon.com" target="_blank">amazon.com</a>, where and how does KRA come in? They dont even know the transaction took place :-)<br>
<br>2. In case of a physical good bought online, the KRA guys can and will catch it at the port of entry. Chances are that if you bought it on <a href="http://amazon.com" target="_blank">amazon.com</a>, the Americans may have taxed the good at the port of "exit" and the Kenyans will want to tax it at the port of "entry". End result, the good becomes too expensive = discouraging online trading.<br>
<br>3. What of e-Services? Maybe I
ran an online workshop/research/consultancy to some locals inhabiting some islands in the Bahamas and I got paid nicely. How does KRA know about this, and should they?Or I developed an online application for Nokia which is selling well online and am picking royalties, should I copy in KRA?<br>
<br>This are just some quick thoughts...but I agree with other listers, let the ecommerce industry pick up, then bring in the taxation later. However, we do need to thing around these issues in advance.<br><br>walu.<br>-------------------------------------------------------<br>
<div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><div style="font-family:times new roman,new york,times,serif;font-size:12pt"><div dir="ltr"><font face="Arial"><b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Ali Hussein <<a href="mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke" target="_blank">ali@hussein.me.ke</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> <a href="mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jwalu@yahoo.com</a>
<br><div class="im"><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> kictanet <kictanet-bounces+ngethe.kariuki2007=<a href="mailto:yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>> <br>
</div><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Friday, May 10, 2013 4:41 AM<div><div class="h5"><br> <b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> Re: [kictanet] Is an online sales tax good for eCommerce? What are
the regulatory environments for eCommerce in Africa?<br> </div></div></font> </div> <div><div><div class="h5"><br><div><div><div>Thanks guys. That's the crux of the matter really. </div><div><br></div><div>So victor, as a lawyer what's your take? When the law is silent? For example <a href="http://jumia.co.ke" target="_blank">jumia.co.ke</a> just opened for business in Kenya. Do they remit taxes including VAT to KRA? How are they structured? Are they a registered Kenyan Company? or are they domiciled in Mauritius for tax purposes? </div>
<div><br></div><div>ICT Researcher, usually innovation moves ahead of regulation (the case of Mpesa is a good example of that) but eventually regulation catches up. My opinion is that this should balance the computing interests of Government, free enterprise and consumer protection which in my opinion are not aligned most of the time.</div>
<div><br></div><div>As an African ICT Hub should we also be leading the way in finding/crafting the best
regulator environment or should we let nature to take its course? <br><br><div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium">Ali Hussein</span></div><div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium">CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd</span></div>
<div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium">Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd</div></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium">+254 713 601113</div>
<div><span><br></span></div><div><span>"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb</span></div><div><br></div>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On May 10, 2013, at 3:50 AM, Victor Kapiyo <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:vkapiyo@gmail.com" target="_blank">vkapiyo@gmail.com</a>> wrote:<br>
<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><div dir="ltr">Well, we still have our good ol VAT
Act which applies to goods and services - without distinction as to the means through which the transaction has occurred, which in a sense means we have online sales covered. <div>
<br></div><div>Then there is the question of loss of taxes especially for those transactions involving income "made in Kenya" by companies i.e. the eBays, Apples, Googles, based outside Kenya operating online and transacting "in Kenya" - do they pay VAT, or income tax (where applicable)?</div>
<div><br></div><div>Victor</div></div><div><br clear="all"><div><div dir="ltr"><div><span style="color:rgb(102,102,102);font-family:tahoma,sans-serif">Victor Kapiyo, LL.B</span></div><font color="#666666" face="tahoma, sans-serif"><br>
====================================================<br><i>“Your attitude, not your aptitude, will determine your altitude” Zig Ziglar</i></font><br></div></div>
<br><br><div>On 9 May 2013 20:46, <span dir="ltr"><<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div>Ali,<br>In my humble opinion,the priority legislation required now is mainly on matters regarding the fact that goods are being bought without face-to-face contact between buyer and seller and issues may arise on quality of goods,not fit for purpose,return of goods,refund of payment etc.You will notice that these are largely consumer protection matters in relation to what some countries call "Distance Selling".<br>
Just some thoughts.<div>Sent from my BlackBerry®</div><hr><div><div><b>From: </b> Ali Hussein <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke" target="_blank">ali@hussein.me.ke</a>>
</div><div><b>Date: </b>Thu, 9 May 2013 22:24:14 +0530</div><div><b>To: </b><a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk</a><<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk</a>></div>
<div><b>Cc: </b>kictanet<kictanet-bounces+ngethe.kariuki2007=<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>>; KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>></div>
<div><b>Subject: </b>Re: [kictanet] Is an online sales tax good for eCommerce? What are the regulatory environments for eCommerce in Africa?</div></div><div><div><div><br></div><div>Ngethe</div><div><br></div><div>
Good point. The legislation though is either non-existent or unclear. Or am I mistaken? <br><br><div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium">Ali Hussein</span></div><div><span style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium">CEO | 3mice interactive media Ltd</span></div>
<div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium">Principal | Telemedia Africa Ltd</div></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium"><br></div><div style="font-family:Helvetica;font-size:medium">+254 713 601113</div>
<div><span><br></span></div><div><span>"The future belongs to him who knows how to wait." - Russian Proverb</span></div><div><br></div>Sent from my iPad</div><div><br>On May 9, 2013, at 9:11 PM, <a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk</a> wrote:<br>
<br></div><blockquote type="cite"><div><span>Ali,listers,</span><br><span>If volume is small,which I think it is at the moment in our country,there is little merit in taxing at this early stage.It is better to let it flourish and introduce tax later when much revenue may be realised.</span><br>
<span></span><br><span>John Kariuki</span><br><span>Sent from my BlackBerry®</span><br><span></span><br><span>-----Original Message-----</span><br><span>From: Ali Hussein <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:ali@hussein.me.ke" target="_blank">ali@hussein.me.ke</a>></span><br>
<span>Sender: "kictanet"</span><br><span> <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:kictanet-bounces+ngethe.kariuki2007=yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet-bounces+ngethe.kariuki2007=yahoo.co.uk@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>></span><br>
<span>Date: Thu, 9 May 2013 04:43:58 </span><br><span>To: <<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">ngethe.kariuki2007@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span><br><span>Cc: KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<<a rel="nofollow" href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>></span><br>
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