@Edwin,<br><br>Do you have any idea how the NSIS, for instance, does their work? Some of the ways they use, like the CIA, might sound unethical, but not necessarily unconstitutional. Actually, I don't see what is unconstitutional in this act of policing Cyberspace. If you don't stop Al Qaeda before they bomb their next target, and if you do by means of cyber policing, which of those two do you vote for?<br>
<br><br><div class="gmail_quote">On Thu, Mar 22, 2012 at 11:41, Edwin Onchari <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:eonchari@lynxbits.com">eonchari@lynxbits.com</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex">
<div link="blue" vlink="purple" lang="EN-US"><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Just curious like many in this list are- how come no one from CCK or our esteemed usually vocal GoK officials on this list not made any comments on this at all? I have this unsettling gut feeling that this has been operational for a while now, which then makes it outright unconstitutional!!<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"Calibri","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Edwin<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><div><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in"><p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> kictanet-bounces+eonchari=<a href="mailto:lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Beonchari" target="_blank">kictanet-bounces+eonchari</a>=<a href="mailto:lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">lynxbits.com@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Harry Delano<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 22, 2012 11:01 AM<br><b>To:</b> Edwin</span></p><div><div class="h5"><br><b>Cc:</b> 'KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions'<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens?-One Man Security?<u></u><u></u></div>
</div><p></p></div></div><div><div class="h5"><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">@Wash,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Quite an assessment you got, this..<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">However, this</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:Wingdings;color:#1f497d">à</span><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"> “ <u>I want to believe that whoever is going to be in charge of the gadgets is not going to be able to act unilaterally</u>”, might<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">not be practically enforceable by oversight bodies, based on one premise:- That they haven’t got any scant idea whatsoever on how the <u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">underlying technology will work. You can expect this to also be treated as a national security secret, since hackivists/other rogue elements<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">can use such info to strike if placed in the public domain.<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal">
<span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">I suppose, what we might need is to learn what the yet-to-be-delivered “Great Firewall” can do and not do. For instance, if it’s capabilities<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">among others comprise ability to shutdown internet, censorship, or other such loopholes as industrial(read business), political espionage,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">then we have need to sound out/lobby (law makers perhaps), to toughen up laws against such blatant abuse..<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Regards,<u></u><u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d">Harry<u></u><u></u></span></p><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Arial","sans-serif";color:#1f497d"><u></u> <u></u></span></p><div style="border:none;border-top:solid #b5c4df 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif"">From:</span></b><span style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"Tahoma","sans-serif""> kictanet-bounces+harry=<a href="mailto:comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a> [mailto:<a href="mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bharry" target="_blank">kictanet-bounces+harry</a>=<a href="mailto:comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">comtelsys.co.ke@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>] <b>On Behalf Of </b>Odhiambo Washington<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Thursday, March 22, 2012 10:26 AM<br><b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:harry@comtelsys.co.ke" target="_blank">harry@comtelsys.co.ke</a><br><b>Cc:</b> KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<br><b>Subject:</b> Re: [kictanet] [Skunkworks] Media Misleading Citizens?-One Man Security?<u></u><u></u></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">On Wed, Mar 21, 2012 at 18:49, Walubengo J <<a href="mailto:jwalu@yahoo.com" target="_blank">jwalu@yahoo.com</a>> wrote:<u></u><u></u></p>
<table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0"><tbody><tr><td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" valign="top"><p class="MsoNormal">--- On <b>Wed, 3/21/12, Moses Muya <i><<a href="mailto:mouzmuyer@gmail.com" target="_blank">mouzmuyer@gmail.com</a>></i></b> wrote<br>
>snip<br>The only question that comes to mind is whether the Government has the right legal backing to do this.<br>>snip<u></u><u></u></p></td></tr></tbody></table><p class="MsoNormal"><u></u> <u></u></p><div><p class="MsoNormal">
[snip]<br> <u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr><td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" valign="top"><p class="MsoNormal"><br>Lets for a moment imagine that there is legal backing and ALL Operators are compelled to install this gadget. Would we then claim to be electronically safer? Research shows that over 75% of electronic fraud/crime originates and is executed internally (like within Banks/Organisations) and hence putting gadgets at the Operators level presupposes the most of the bad guys are comming in from the "outside". Fine you may catch the minotrity thugs (25%) but have not impact on the majority internal thugs (the 75%...)<u></u><u></u></p>
</td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>@Walu,<br><br>We'd be electronically safer, yes. We are sniffing "Internet" and "internet" traffic. "Internet" here stands for Kenya<->Worldwide traffic while "internet" stands for Kenya<->Kenya (can be via KIXP of just within the operators network) traffic. For all intents and purposes, I believe the system is not supposed extend beyond those two scenarios, like sniffing traffic within a bank's system. You pushed it beyond the mandate of CCK by introducing traffic within RFC1918 confines. I believe the gadget applies only to those organizations which offer cyberspace based services to the public.<br>
<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr><td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" valign="top"><p class="MsoNormal"><br>A secondary but equally important point, is what would stop the Director General (my good friend Wangusi) to use the very same equipment to block internet traffic into and out of the Kenyan space? Especially if Kenyans are trying to do the equivalent of the Arab uprising on Twitter/FB/etc...which is likely considering our politics is not really improving (but I digress)<u></u><u></u></p>
</td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>This is not an issue. Even before the introduction of the gadget, I believe the govt has a way of asking an provider licensed under CCK to shut down their services, in the guise of national security, or be forced shut! You remember KTN case and the "if you rattle a snake"? God forbid we don't have such level of dictatorship in KE.<br>
<u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr><td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" valign="top"><p class="MsoNormal"><br>Am not purely against security gadgets being installed. Am against a framework that puts one man or woman in charge of these gadgets. Even our new constitution puts the Police and Security Intelligence bosses under Parliament (210 MPs?)<u></u><u></u></p>
</td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal"><br>Let ms also go ahead and say that you seem to have made a great assumption on that. It's not possible that only one (wo)man is going to be in charge of these gadgets. The security agencies are mostl likely the ones who are going to be going over the data collected with a toothcomb and magnifying glass, but remember there is a Police Oversight Authority and the Parliamentary Committee on Security who hold sway over the security agencies... I want to believe that whoever is going to be in charge of the gadgets is not going to be able to act unilaterally.<br>
<br> <u></u><u></u></p></div><blockquote style="border:none;border-left:solid #cccccc 1.0pt;padding:0in 0in 0in 6.0pt;margin-left:4.8pt;margin-top:5.0pt;margin-right:0in;margin-bottom:5.0pt"><table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">
<tbody><tr><td style="padding:0in 0in 0in 0in" valign="top"><p class="MsoNormal"><br>If we are not carefull we may be basically putting Kenya back to the days of one-man-show. Remember one broadcasting station - Voice of Kenya? remember KPT&C - the days of JamboNet? Same thing here on the offing - if we are to believe what has been published in the press (and why not, no one from CCK has protested as being misquoted) .<u></u><u></u></p>
</td></tr></tbody></table></blockquote><div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><br>Hehe... I think you presented an Academic paper, Walu. We have a new constitution which gives the people a lot more power than Moi ever imagined, lest you forget :-)<u></u><u></u></p>
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