Robert, wouldn't it be easiest to put your friend directly in touch with Wachira off this list to resolve this specific issue? If that doesn't yield any results, then you can always look at other options. Or if it can be resolved, then you or Wachira could give everyone on the list a short feedback so that we know it's been sorted? <br>
<br><div class="gmail_quote">On 4 July 2011 17:17, robert yawe <span dir="ltr"><<a href="mailto:robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk">robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk</a>></span> wrote:<br><blockquote class="gmail_quote" style="margin:0 0 0 .8ex;border-left:1px #ccc solid;padding-left:1ex;">
<div><div style="font-family:'times new roman', 'new york', times, serif;font-size:12pt"><div></div><div>Hi Wachira,</div><div><br></div><div>Seems Dr. Ndemo has thrown the ball back in your backyard so here is our response to your issues;</div>
<div><br></div><div>1. Safaricom logged onto the paybill account and made a reversal without notifying them or being requested from them, which is the bone of contention here. Please lets address that issue as you have not yet done so in your mail.</div>
<div><br></div><div>2. The charges incurred by the paybill number cannot be invoiced as if that is done it shall be deemed that services where rendered to Safaricom thus incurring taxes and with holding tax. What Safaricom need to do is issue a credit note. Please clarify this issue with your finance fellows so as to make sure that we are on the same
page.</div><div><br></div><div>I believe your response to the issues raised above will determine if we need to have a meeting with the PS as referee on Thursday.</div><div><br></div><div>Regards<br> </div><div class="im">
Robert Yawe<br>KAY System Technologies Ltd<br>Phoenix House, 6th Floor<br>P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200<br>Kenya<br><br></div><div>Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696<div><br></div><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt">
<br><div style="font-family:times new roman, new york, times, serif;font-size:12pt"><font size="2" face="Tahoma"><hr size="1"><b><span style="font-weight:bold">From:</span></b> Kangaru Wachira Kangaru <<a href="mailto:KWachira@Safaricom.co.ke" target="_blank">KWachira@Safaricom.co.ke</a>><br>
<b><span style="font-weight:bold">To:</span></b> robert yawe <<a href="mailto:robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk" target="_blank">robertyawe@yahoo.co.uk</a>><div class="im"><br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Cc:</span></b> KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions <<a href="mailto:kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">kictanet@lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>><br>
</div><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Sent:</span></b> Mon, 4 July, 2011 13:59:10<br><b><span style="font-weight:bold">Subject:</span></b> RE: [kictanet] How secure is mpesa<br></font><br>
<div><div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Robert,</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Thank
you for your feedback.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">We
would like to take this opportunity to provide clarity on the reversal process and
the steps we taken to ensure the integrity of the system and process while
securing subscriber’s cash. </span></p><div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Safaricom
does not initiate the reversal but in our effort to assist customers who make
genuine mistakes, we contact the PayBill partner with a request that they
reverse the entry, which they are expected to do after establishing, on their
side, that it is indeed a genuine error. </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">Where
a customer contacts us that they have paid to the wrong number, we follow the below
process;</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><span>1.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The customer is
given the contact numbers for the partner they paid in error to request for a
reversal since as Safaricom, we cannot tell if the customer genuinely paid to
the wrong client.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><span>2.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">If the customer is
referred back to Safaricom, we contact the partner through an e-mail requesting
for assistance.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><span>3.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The PayBill partner
then reverses the transaction by sending the money back to the customer.</span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.5in"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"><span>4.<span style="font:7.0pt "Times New Roman""> </span></span></span><span style="font-size:11.0pt">If the PayBill
partner is unable to reverse the transaction, we reverse it back on their
behalf after we receive the instructions from them.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">The
challenge that PayBill partners have been facing is that the charges incurred
by them after the reversal to the customer is not reversible. However, we
recognize the inconvenience this may pose and our Product Development team is
looking into this with a view to come up with a long-term solution. In the
meantime, we request our partners to invoice for the value after which we
refund them.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span style="font-size:11.0pt">On a wider scale, we are carrying out the </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">BIG SIM
(phone look-up) education to encourage subscribers to save PayBill numbers on
their SIMs to avoid such errors. We have also introduced a service
that allows our subscribers, on dialing *234#, to look up and verify PayBill
account numbers. All this is actively done in keeping with our promise to give
the best experience to our customers in all facets of our operations.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">We
are happy to be part of this discussion and appreciate the feedback we are
getting. We reiterate our commitment to continue reviewing our processes to
improve service offerings.</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="text-align:justify"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt">Regards,</span><span style="font-size:11.0pt"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#4A442A">__________________________________________________</span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#4A442A">Wachira Kang’aru</span></p><div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#4A442A">Public Relations Manager | Safaricom | </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#4A442A">Telephone: +254 722 003973 |</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#4A442A">Mobile: +254 722 574424</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
</div><div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#4A442A">__________________________________________________</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#4A442A">Wachira Kang’aru</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#4A442A">Manager, Public Relations| Safaricom | </span></p><div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#4A442A">Telephone: +254 722 003973 |</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#4A442A">Mobile: +254 722 574424</span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.5pt;font-family:Consolas;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
</div></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span></p>
<div>
<div style="border:none;border-top:solid #B5C4DF 1.0pt;padding:3.0pt 0in 0in 0in">
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt"> kictanet-bounces+wkangaru=<a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a>@<a href="http://lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>
[mailto:<a href="mailto:kictanet-bounces%2Bwkangaru" target="_blank">kictanet-bounces+wkangaru</a>=<a href="http://gmail.com" target="_blank">gmail.com</a>@<a href="http://lists.kictanet.or.ke" target="_blank">lists.kictanet.or.ke</a>] <b>On Behalf
Of </b>robert yawe<br>
<b>Sent:</b> Monday, July 04, 2011 9:13 AM<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:wkangaru@gmail.com" target="_blank">wkangaru@gmail.com</a></span></p><div class="im"><br>
<b>Cc:</b> KICTAnet ICT Policy Discussions<br>
</div><b>Subject:</b> [kictanet] How secure is mpesa<p></p>
</div>
</div>
<p class="MsoNormal"> </p>
<div>
<div><div class="im">
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Hi,</span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"serif";color:black">I
am </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"serif";color:black">writing</span><span style="font-family:"serif";color:black"> this
post with a heavy heart as it will likely reverse gains that have been made in
the ecommerce and ebanking/mbanking environment.</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"serif";color:black">A client of mine, who shall remain unnamed for now in typical
Kenya fashion, runs a site that accepts payments using the mpesa paybill
system. Due to the close similarity in various paybill number there has
been a tendency for people to send money to the account erroneously.</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"serif";color:black">As the errors have grown over time the client has had to come up
with a way to manage the reversals so us to reduce the impact on their
operations. Last week Safaricom accessed the paybill number's account and
initiated reversals without notifying them. </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"serif";color:black">How sure is Safaricom that the person who indicated that they had
sent the money to the wrong number had not already consumed services? As
the post master general in waiting I am concerned that such action would have
negative effect on ecommerce as reversal of a transaction based on the request
of one party will definitely harm the other.</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"serif";color:black">The reversed transaction still incurs the owner of the paybill
number a cost that is not reversed, this issue was previously raised with the former
MD of Safaricom Mr. Michael Joseph who instructed one of the managers
to look into and resolve. It has been over 2 years and the issue is yet
to be concluded.</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"serif";color:black">This action also indicates the issue of Safaricom mistreating SME
organisations, if the error was made with the KPLC or Co-Op Bank accounts would
the staff have the audacity to make direct reversals on the system? </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"serif";color:black">I believe the term for such action is blatant impunity
that can only be practised by a monopolistic player in an
industry. </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;font-family:"serif";color:black">With a heavy heart I send this post hoping that it will act as a
wake up call both to Safaricom and the regulators (CCK & Central Bank) that
we need better control and monitoring of the money transfer market otherwise we
stand to scare the public which would result in its slow down.</span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-family:"serif";color:black">Regards </span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"></span></p>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="margin-bottom:12.0pt"><span><span style="font-family:"serif";color:black">Robert Yawe</span></span></p><div class="im"><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span><span style="font-family:"serif";color:black">KAY System Technologies Ltd</span></span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span><span style="font-family:"serif";color:black">Phoenix House, 6th Floor</span></span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span><span style="font-family:"serif";color:black">P O Box 55806 Nairobi, 00200</span></span><span style="font-size:13.5pt;color:black"><br>
</span><span><span style="font-family:"serif";color:black">Kenya</span></span><span style="color:black"></span></div><p></p>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black">Tel: +254722511225, +254202010696</span></p>
</div>
</div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
</div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="color:black"> </span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:10.0pt;color:navy"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<div>
<div class="MsoNormal" align="center" style="text-align:center"><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">
<hr size="2" width="100%" align="center">
</span></div>
<p class="MsoNormal"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black">From:</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;color:black"> Eugene Lidede (Synergy)
[mailto: <a href="mailto:eugene@synergy.co.ke" target="_blank">eugene@synergy.co.ke</a> ] <br></span></p><div class="im">
<b>Sent:</b> 04 July 2011 09:05<br>
<b>To:</b> <a href="mailto:robertyawe@synergy.co.ke" target="_blank">robertyawe@synergy.co.ke</a><br>
<b>Subject:</b> M-PESA irregularities</div><span style="color:black"></span><p></p>
</div><div class="im">
<p class="MsoNormal"><span style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">Robert,</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">As we spoke; </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.75in"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">i)</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black">
</span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">Safaricom is now directly
manipulating transactions in our M-PESA account without our consent or any
manner of reference to us. Is this proper? (see red circle in picture below)</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
</div><p style="margin-left:.75in"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">ii)</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">They never refund monies deducted from us
resulting from the said reversals despite the fact that we are not party to
initiating the “wrong payments� (see blue circle). These are wrong payments
intended for co-op bank’s 400200 but instead sent to our 400100.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p><div class="im">
<p style="margin-left:.75in"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">iii)</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">This issue has been outstanding since October
last year during Michael Josephs days. Safaricom has refused to sort it out.
Several emails to their M-PESA department regarding this issue have gone
unanswered even those specifically addressed to the referenced Caroline lady.</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p style="margin-left:.75in"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black">iv)</span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:7.0pt;color:black"> </span><span lang="EN-US" style="color:black">With the deteriorating relationship, it might be
time we considered PesaPal, ZAP and Orange money seriously as a payment
platform for our retail subscribers</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"><img width="476" height="972" src="cid:1.149270190@web27801.mail.ukl.yahoo.com"></span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D">Regards</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:#1F497D"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:15.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"serif";color:black">Eugene Lidede | </span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"serif";color:black">Chief
Technology Officer | Synergy Systems Limited</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:15.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"serif";color:black">6th Floor, Phoenix House, Kenyatta Ave. | Cell: +254 721 289497/476367
| Tel: +254 20 2113163</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:15.0pt"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"serif";color:black"><a rel="nofollow" href="http://live.mystocks.co.ke" target="_blank">live.mystocks.co.ke</a>
| <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.propertykenya.com" target="_blank">www.propertykenya.com</a>
| <a rel="nofollow" href="http://www.mystocks.co.ke" target="_blank">www.mystocks.co.ke</a></span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
</div><p class="MsoNormal" style="line-height:15.0pt"><b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;font-family:"serif";color:#E36C0A">Outstanding Online Investment Content
Provider 2009</span></b><span lang="EN-US" style="font-family:"serif";color:black"> – </span><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:10.0pt;font-family:"serif";color:black">Computer Society of Kenya</span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
<p class="MsoNormal"><span lang="EN-US" style="font-size:11.0pt;color:black"> </span><span style="color:black"></span></p>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
</div>
<hr>
<div><strong>Note:</strong></div>
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The Kenya ICT Action Network (KICTANet) is a multi-stakeholder platform for people and institutions interested and involved in ICT policy and regulation. The network aims to act as a catalyst for reform in the ICT sector in support of the national aim of ICT enabled growth and development.<br>
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